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Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: jpc647 on February 20, 2010, 11:14:59 PM

Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on February 20, 2010, 11:14:59 PM
I fixed the valve cover bolt which was in a previous thread and now I have a new problem. One of the lines under the plenum seems to be leaking oil, which is now dripping down onto the valve cover.

(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/DSC01172.jpg)

(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/DSC01173.jpg)

Just for reference, the first picture is showing the general vicinity of the area, and the second is on the bottom side of the plenum. I guess the purpose of this post, is what does oil do in the plenum? I was under the impression for a long time that coolant was in the plenum. So I guess, if the screw "t" isn't lose, what should I do? I doesn't appear to be cracked. Is it under pressure? Should I try to wrap the nylon tape around it to seal it? What does the oil do up here?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on February 21, 2010, 02:29:48 AM
There is not supposed to be oil there at all,  the upper plenum flows only air .
 I think you should check your PCV system  (hoses, valve , and screen in the lower intake) for proper operation.
 It appears that you have a "blow by" problem which can be caused by  a clogged or malfunctioning PCV or bad  piston rings      .
 Since you dont say anything about a loss of power or excessive smoking /oil consumption ,  I would  lean toward the PCV
Good luck :D
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: dominator on February 21, 2010, 08:26:37 AM
Yep replace your pcv valve,screen and groment,about 20-30 dollars in parts.
That hose goes to the pcv valve.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on February 21, 2010, 10:06:24 AM
pcv valve screen? I've never heard of one. I called the local parts store just to see, before I posted here and they didn't have anything listed. SO should I just get the valve and the grommet and call it a day?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on February 21, 2010, 10:20:47 AM
NO !!!!!! the screen is vitally important and it is usually what clogs up

 Call your parts places and give them any or all of these numbers , if they still tell you they can't help you call someplace else
 Here is a link to a tech article on another site that shows what you need .
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00266.html



 DORMAN # 47064
 BWD # EC241
 WIX #46978
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on February 21, 2010, 01:08:13 PM
I've followed the wire to where it enters the edge of the block. If this is where the pcv valve is, I don't know how I'm going to get to it. I can't get my hand in there. There is a clip holding the line in place, almost like one of the old fashioned radiator hose clips. The line is soaked in oil, so the car has been leaking for a little while, I just never noticed it.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on February 21, 2010, 01:20:54 PM
Be patient, it is a tight squeeze but with a little finesse you should be able to get in there .
I personally had to lay across the upper plenum from the passenger side to get in there .
  Once you remove the valve and grommet  the screwdriver with a long sheetrock screw duct taped to it is the easiest way I have found to remove the screen
 It is a PITA to be sure but I think it will fix your problem
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: Kitz Kat on February 21, 2010, 01:41:43 PM
It's a none issue for a 5.0, I would think it's the screen. If your parts store can't help you , I would find another.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on February 21, 2010, 03:34:18 PM
Is this the PCV valve?

(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/DSC01176.jpg)
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on February 21, 2010, 03:47:01 PM
Yes it is :D

  The screen is at the bottom of the hole that the valve is in
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: Kitz Kat on February 21, 2010, 03:53:26 PM
Wouldn't hurt to get a new grommet for the pvc valve either, I'm sure it dried out.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on February 21, 2010, 10:40:49 PM
I can't find a grommet. Using the part number for the screen they found that, but they want to give me a grommet for the valve cover, that's not what I need. I called Napa, Autozone, and Cap. Does Anyone have a part number for the grommet? They said they have universal grommets, but I don't want to try to use another universal part. I could go through ford I guess, if I have to, the part numbers are usually listed in the books somewhere.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on February 21, 2010, 10:43:49 PM
Dont go anywhere I'll get you a number in a couple of seconds
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on February 21, 2010, 10:48:30 PM
dorman #42327
 should be in the "help"line of parts
Where in Mass are you I lived there 34 years before i moved to Tn ?
 I worked auto parts there for years  at a distributor out of Worcester , but I worked all over the state at different locations
 I might be able to steer you in a good direction for a parts house
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on March 06, 2010, 05:15:03 PM
I was able to locate it, most stores don't have it, I had to go a little out of my area. Does anyone know how to get the screen out? There isn't a lot of room, and I can't see to get it out. The valve and old grommet came out easy. But the retainer screen is stuck in the hole.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on March 06, 2010, 06:21:47 PM
Long sheetrock screw duct taped to the longest screw driver you have  ,
screw the screw into the screen and lift it out 
 LOTS OF TAPE . you want the screw to stay attached to the driver
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on March 06, 2010, 06:35:18 PM
I tried that, the screw after being screwed into the screen ripped out, twice. I ended up jerry rigging an old coat hanger and a piece of wire to rip it out. It was filthy, obviously never been changed. Seriously, there must have been an inch of crusty oil around it. Thanks for the reply.  How does a clogged screen make oil go into the lines though? I would think if it were clogged, nothing could go through?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on March 06, 2010, 06:44:03 PM
I'm glad you got it out the screw had worked for me before but whatever worked is good


 In simple terms...


The pcv helps to vent the  pressure/vapors from the crankcase (oilpan area)  when it is non functional  the vapors find their way out however they can  and they bring oil with them:D
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on March 06, 2010, 06:48:44 PM
okay, thanks for the info. Thanks for the help hypo. I appreciate it man.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on March 06, 2010, 07:27:21 PM
My pleasure ;)
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jcassity on March 07, 2010, 12:31:42 AM
undo a coathanger up at the hook
straighten out hanger
one end will be hooked
one end will be spiral

puppies the spiral end into the streen then screw the hanger into the screen,,then yank it out.  (yep, thought of that all on my own)

too easy.

the pcv valve is a pita,, sucks bad.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jcassity on March 07, 2010, 12:34:00 AM
Quote from: jpc647;312936
I tried that, the screw after being screwed into the screen ripped out, twice. I ended up jerry rigging an old coat hanger and a piece of wire to rip it out. It was filthy, obviously never been changed. Seriously, there must have been an inch of crusty oil around it. Thanks for the reply.  How does a clogged screen make oil go into the lines though? I would think if it were clogged, nothing could go through?


like replied to already,, but mostly due to valve stem seals allowing this to happen  as well as the direct path from the heads down to the oil pan via the oil drain holes on each lower right / left side of the heads.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on June 25, 2010, 03:39:12 PM
Well, I had to dig up this old thread. I've driven the car about 1000k miles since I replaced the PCV valve, the screen/ retainer, and the oil leak in this area is back.. It seems to be about the same, if not worse. Anyone have any Ideas? I can't seem to figure this one out. Could something else be clogged or defective causing the oil to come up?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 25, 2010, 04:08:03 PM
Probably the cork end gasket at the rear of the intake is leaking, fairly common problem...

It's visible in this pict, likely yours is hanging out... PCV is in lower right...

http://members.pen 15s.net/turbocoupe50/5.0vin.jpg
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on June 26, 2010, 12:26:18 PM
Alright, I took it apart, and so some reason, oil is being sucked up into the PCV valve and coming across the hose which runs into the intake. Now the PCV valve was replaced less than two months ago, along with the screen, and grommet. With a clear screen and the new PCV valve, the problem got worse. Does anyone know why this would happen? Is oil supposed to be in here, and the hose is just worn out leaking, whats the deal?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 26, 2010, 02:59:05 PM
No it would cause your pcv valve to suck in oil ;)
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on June 26, 2010, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;326549
No it would cause your pcv valve to suck in oil ;)

Really? Or is that a joke, hence the winking face I'm just confused because the only wet area is inside where the PCV valve and screen go. Nothing on the back of the intake anywhere else is wet with oil.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 26, 2010, 03:07:46 PM
No I'm serrious. It would cause it to suck in oil.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on June 26, 2010, 03:16:13 PM
So mine is leaking into the just below the PCV valve, unlike that picture which is leaking away from it? What is a cork end gasket?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 26, 2010, 10:35:05 PM
If it's sucking oil through the PCV valve, then either the valve is defective or you have one Hell of a lot of blowby, caused by worn piston rings and/or cylinders...

But

The line in the oil filler neck must be able to suck fresh air, do you have it blocked???
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on June 27, 2010, 07:26:06 AM
Okay there is no way the car has this much blowby. If it did, it would be smoking like a freight train. The car does not smoke whatsoever. I'll check the line line on the oil filter neck. I know it's there, maybe the link is kinked, or maybe there is a blockage somewhere. Thanks.

If anything else comes to mind, let me know.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on June 27, 2010, 09:35:30 PM
Well I checked the hose from the oil fill neck an its clear. There was no blockage. I'm really banging my head against the wall on this one.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on August 01, 2010, 05:27:34 PM
Update. I changed the intake gaskets, upper and lower, the distributor o ring, and have a new pcv valve in the car. The oil is still coming out of the line in the pictures, not as bad it seems, but its there nonetheless.

I'm so lost now... It has to be coming up from the pcv valve, but why? It's not leaking down onto the valve cover anymore, it seems to be staying in the lines. Why is this happening?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: blackcat85 on August 03, 2010, 10:47:18 AM
does all this info to the 3.8 engine too?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on August 03, 2010, 03:14:07 PM
A member on a mustang forum suggested that my oil baffle might be missing from doing the intake gaskets. What is an oil baffle? Where does it go?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: Kitz Kat on August 04, 2010, 03:10:04 PM
There should be a plate covering the hole for the pvc, that's what they call a baffle. It's on the underside of the intake. should be similar to this pic. I actually forget what a stock intake looks like.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on August 04, 2010, 03:55:07 PM
uh, my car doesn't have on of those. It wasn't on it when I took it off... hmmm... well this is interesting... Does anyone have a picture of the stock one?  Or have a stock one they don't need? This is aggrivating... I don't want to pull the intake off again...
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on August 04, 2010, 03:58:43 PM
I'll get a pic in just a second
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on August 04, 2010, 04:04:00 PM
here ya go
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on August 04, 2010, 04:12:54 PM
so If i poke my finger down where the PCV valve is, I should hit a plate... okay. I'm going to see if it is there tonight. Thanks for the picture hypo. Anyone got one that tey don't need?
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: hypostang on August 04, 2010, 04:20:53 PM
It will be under the metal screen and might be too deep to hit with your finger
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on August 04, 2010, 04:25:40 PM
I can pull the screen out, again, even though it's quite the PITA, and I'll try. If not, I still need one. I'll put a thing out in the parts wanted.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on March 25, 2011, 12:17:54 PM
Alright, well the plate clearly isn't there. I still get oil up through the PCV valve. I leaks back down onto the valve cover. Not as much as it used to, but it still does.  It seems to do it only when I "thromp" on the car, or if I'm really cruising, like on the highway at 80mph+. The car doesn't smoke or burn oil, not that I can see. I also fixed the oil leak, and for 3 weeks I have had a steady oil level!, which is the first time ever in this car, lol. There definitely is not a plate under the intake, I can see where there once was, and something must have broken off. It's not in the motor anywhere so I'm thinking the intake gasket was changed once before.

Should I consider this: http://www.mirage-performance.com/sonata/CatchCan/

I'm only getting a couple drops when it happens,  just enough to fill the channel on the stock valve covers. I'm wondering if oil in here could be affecting my idle? It runs like a vacuum leak, but its not always like that.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: Haystack on March 26, 2011, 02:00:40 AM
Vinne had a thread where he made one out of thin metal.
Title: There is oil in the plenum? What?
Post by: jpc647 on March 26, 2011, 10:18:51 PM
Quote from: Haystack;356391
Vinne had a thread where he made one out of thin metal.

Yeah, it'd have to take the intake off again, and replace all the gaskets again... don't wanna do that. :/