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Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 12:09:44 PM

Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 12:09:44 PM
Like the title says, my gas and water temp gauges aren't working. Of course, I checked the fuses, and they were fine. I made sure the water temp sensor was hooked up, and the sending unit also. I'm not sure what else to check out. The instrument panel lights up fine, the needles just don't move.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 17, 2010, 01:06:58 PM
when the IVR is defective,, those two devices go out.

first,, unhook your temp sensor wire (little red slip on boot) on the front driver side of intake. 
stuff that doo dad up onto a ground / bolt or something.
turn on key,, your temp guage should peg out.  if it doesnt,, in my garage the next thing would be to remove the cluster.

page 127 of the evtm.

with a steady hand, if you open your ivr up, you may find the little thin wire is broke.

I noticed the little copper foil was kind easy to break although i didnt break mine,,  i saw where it is a weak link.
also check the little contact,, this device is a thermal heat type device where when one leg gets warm,, it bends slightly
making the circuit open. if you open up yours and the contacts open (magnifying glass), it may need to be fine adjusting.
keep in mind once you fugger with it, any intended calibration on an engineering perspective will be null and void.
If something bad happens the little copper wire should burn open. 

If anyone disagrees, chime in.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 01:15:45 PM
And judging by the pictures, the IVR is on the back of the instrument panel?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 01:51:31 PM
*Edit* Nevermind
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 01:58:37 PM
Got the IVR out, and the little copper ribbon was broken
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 02:26:37 PM
Took a few pics, does this look normal? The little thin wire seems to be connected to the copper ribbon, and then wraps around the little arm
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 86XR7project on January 17, 2010, 02:31:35 PM
Do you have a macro setting on your digital cam, if so try turning it on and taking the photo and it wont be so blurry.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 17, 2010, 02:53:14 PM
Here is the thread especially for the IVR with better photos (on the page 3) and solving the problem - http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=25827.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 03:02:29 PM
So should I try loosening the small screw?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 88turbo on January 17, 2010, 04:06:24 PM
is this the standard digital cluster? if so I have one that you can have for next to nothing plus shipping.  mine has the collar for the shift indicator in tact and the w2 mod already done.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 04:20:59 PM
It has the digital speedo with the buttstuffog gas and water temp
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 05:21:51 PM
Are there any connectors or wires  under the hood that may somehow have come undone (other than the little red wire for the coolant temp)? There is a connector in the drivers side fender area with a red wire with a little white stripe and a black wire with a little white stripe that looks like it was connected to something at somepoint...
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 17, 2010, 05:54:14 PM
Quote from: 20thanniver-ls;306655
So should I try loosening the small screw?
Yes, you can, but better is to use 78S05 instead of this old nonsense.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 17, 2010, 05:57:06 PM
Is that like a direct bolt on for the original part?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 18, 2010, 03:03:54 PM
Went to the boneyard today, and luckily found another IVR from the same type of cluster, installed it and still not working. I have no way to check it to see if it is good though, so it may have been a bad one too. Is it possible that the electrical film stuff on the back could be damaged? It dosen't look good, and it seems really brittle.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 19, 2010, 06:12:52 PM
If it still doesn't work, use the test light to control if it is powered in on/accy. You have base cluster, so connect it between pin 12 and ground. It should glow a bit.


PS: 78S05 isn't direct swap part, but it's quite easy to install it into the original IVR body.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 22, 2010, 06:09:52 PM
Got the "new" cluster (Thanks 88turbo) and still no go. I did notice that on the drivers side harness, there is a black wire that looks to have a small fusible link on it that looks like it was cut, or broken off. Problem is, I have no idea where the wire goes to. I know the other wires in the harness mostly look like they go to the fuse panel, but I can't find the other end of the black wire. Any ideas?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 22, 2010, 06:30:47 PM
Ok, so I checked the pin and wire coloring. Everything seems right except pin number 12, ignition to IVR. According to the coolcats site, my wiring should be light blue/pink. I have a grey wire with yellow lettering that says DO NOT CUT OR SPLICE RESISTOR. I'm imagining that if those wires aren't right, when the key is turned to the on position, there is no power going to the IVR.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 22, 2010, 07:47:41 PM
If the IVR isn't working, or if the wire for it was grounding out somewhere, could that possibly cause other electrical problems? The other day when I was cleaning it out, I had the radio on, and smoke started coming out of the front speakers, and then all the speakers started making a crackling/static noise?????
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 22, 2010, 09:34:08 PM
I tried grounding the black wire out, still nothing happens. I am out of ideas now...
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 23, 2010, 06:50:55 AM
First, I'm sorry for my mistake, the only mode when it should work is ON mode (not ACCY).
There is only one black wire (connected to pin 14) - it's the ground for low fuel lamp. But the wire I was speeking about is black with light green stripe. TC dash has another pin configuration, so it can't be direct swapped. If there is some short it can cause other electrical problems. BTW, light blue wire with pink stripe is probably signal wire to speedometer (pin 16).
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 09:01:30 AM
What I am saying is, pin num. 12 in my connector is supposed to a light blue/pink wire, according to this....http://www.coolcats.net/tech/general/8588base.html (http://"http://www.coolcats.net/tech/general/8588base.html")

Now on my wiring, I have a grey/yellow wire that says "resistor" and a straight black wire that is either capped off, or a fusible link,coming out of pin 12, however the black wire is not connected to any other wire.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: EricCoolCats on January 23, 2010, 09:26:54 AM
The black wire is an extra ground wire, don't worry about that.

Wiring colors changed throughout the model years and can't be guaranteed to be accurate. I did the best that I could. Regardless of the wiring colors, it's the wiring position in the cluster that's important.

Sounds like your feed from the ignition switch might be bad. Or, the switch itself is bad. Has it been changed before?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 10:58:01 AM
I beleive it has. I found a wire coupler with what looks like part number d4ab 14489 that wasn't connected by the battery somewhere.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 11:22:39 AM
I beleive you are right Eric, the wire was in fact capped off, so it was probably an extra ground. I also found, in the engine bay, by the battery, there is a four pin connector where a wire has been cut. It is a black wire with what looks like traces of yellow in it. I'm thinking that cut wire, along with the unconnected coupler, could be part of the problem, however I can't find where either the cut wire, or the coupler go...
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 11:28:27 AM
you could use an old wort plug (typical ac to dc converter) like what comes with a chordless phone ect.  find an old one that makes 5vdc.

or.......

an old computer power supply makes 5vdc.


inject the voltage you need into the cluster along with a ground and see if the ivr works.

repeat process with the cluster installed but god only knows how you can inject 5v in the right spot and have room to do it with the cluster installed.

im still looking at diagrams.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 11:34:57 AM
I'm not sure I'm skilled enough to do that......

The connector that is disconnected has a part number (d4ab 14489) that seems to be closely related to the grey connector in the cluster harness which has part number d4zb 14489
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 12:03:25 PM
look at page 129 of the evtm

see if you have voltage on the wire coming from the ign sw in "ON" per the below diagram.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 12:03:46 PM
Could the feed from the ignition switch be bad and me still be able to start the car?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 12:22:05 PM
Just tested the feed wire from the ignition switch, the black and green wire is getting power......
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 12:27:36 PM
Quote from: 20thanniver-ls;307570
Could the feed from the ignition switch be bad and me still be able to start the car?


yes,, pm sent
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: 20thanniver-ls;307479
If the IVR isn't working, or if the wire for it was grounding out somewhere, could that possibly cause other electrical problems? The other day when I was cleaning it out, I had the radio on, and smoke started coming out of the front speakers, and then all the speakers started making a crackling/static noise?????


this is the variable that is gonna bit everyone in the ass.  no telling what did this.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
anyone with an 86 evtm?

my diagram shows the bk/gn wire going directly to pin 12 feeding the ivr.

his case is the following:

black/gn wire goes to the fuse box.

pin 12 has a grey wire with letters indicating its fuse link but we dont know where it goes.

help,, post 86evtm page on this.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 01:31:53 PM
jumper the black / green wire up to pin 12 at the cluster connecter with one of your power seat circuit breakers in line with the jumper.

have your coolant temp wire grounded out as well.

turn on key

if all goes well, your temp should peg out and fuel should start to read.

if all goes bad, your temp and fuel will for a moment start to move but go back to dead.,, also your circuit breaker will have gotten warm and / or your ivr case would have gotten warm.

I dont like the idea that your ign wire per the above diagram goes directly to the fuse box.  Also your pin 12 wire is gray with a do not splice or cut samped on it.  your wiring conflicts my resources so hopefully someone has an 86 layout.

to trace out where the gray wire goes will be difficult.  I suggest you unhook the battery first.
next wire up a 6v battery and inject that voltage into pin 12 at the cluster connector.
prob down at the ign switch on A1 and see if that voltage appears there with your test light.  Keep in mind that if the resistor is blown open, you will get no power.  I would keep chasing that gray wire as far back as possible to finally arrive at where it starts.  I hope you get this working.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 01:35:12 PM
Scott, you are the man! Did exactly that, and watched my fuel gauge slowly rise up, and my temp gauge pegged. Now, should I run the black/green wire straight into pin 12, or is there another way to go about doing this?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 02:12:56 PM
hey,, thats your call man.

knowing that you have a different layout from what i posted makes me want to not say either way.

you did all the work,, i just said what i would do.

  start off with 1amp.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 02:40:31 PM
Well, maybe I spoke too soon. The temp gauge seems to be working fine, but the gas gauge isn't working now. My speedo isn't lighting up now either......I'm thinking now I may be in over my head
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 05:31:17 PM
how many bulbs could you have that are blown?

also,, did you use a fuse for the jumper? or did you get confident and not put one in?

we really need an 86evtm for this one. 

maybe you should  continue to dig out that gray wire and trace it back.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 05:38:58 PM
when you had the jumper in place, was the lighting on the dash extra bright?

if that gray wire was integrated with a resistor somewhere, then its stepping down the current and then the ivr changes the voltage to 5vdc.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 05:41:11 PM
No bulbs blown. Yes I did use a fuse, one of the breakers as you told me. No clue what happened. Even when I hooked everything back up like it was, still no lighting on the speedo. I also noticed that the climate control wasn't working, or at least the blower motor wasn't working anymore. What a mess.....
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 05:42:26 PM
I actually don't remember the speedo lighting up at all after, or during the time I used the jumper...
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 23, 2010, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: jcassity;307569
look at page 129 of the evtm
see if you have voltage on the wire coming from the ign sw in "ON" per the below diagram.
Look at your picture, it's a TC cluster, not base. But in base cluster are the same wires. Cool cats say light blue with pink stripe is 12V for IVR, but EVTM say no, it's black with green stripe. Here is a scan from EVTM - base cluster.
(http://www.abload.de/img/ford_base_clustertuho.jpg)
But if you have 12V there (on pin 12) there must be some fault in the IVR.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 23, 2010, 06:30:28 PM
There is no volts in pin 12, just a resistor wire, and an extra ground.

When pulling power from the black/light green wire form the ignition switch using a jumper and inline fuse/breaker  ( there is no light blue/pink wire on the switch) and grounding out the little red wire fir the temp gauge - the gas gauge worked and the temp gauge pegged, meaning that the IVR should be good.

However, now the radio dosen't work, the speedo dosen't light up,and the blower motor stopped working.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2010, 09:41:28 PM
trinom-
here is what he has,,

his drivers side pin 12 has a gray wire with yellow lettering that says "do not cut or splice resistor wire".

-his pin 12 has no voltage when the key is rotated to on
-his pin 12 wire does not go to the ignition switch , it goes somewhere else unknown.
-his pin A1 on the ignition switch is black / green and can be traced directly to the fuse box alone on its own terminiation without a piggy back wire, this conflicts the 87 evtm
-his car is an 86 tbrid 5.0

***his instrument cluster connectors have sufficent slack to allow him easy access to get at.  this is odd for most of us since we normally see the harness is attached to the fire wall and is hard to obtain any slack.

in short, his setup is different from the manual.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 24, 2010, 11:07:28 AM
I have the '86 EVTM, and it doesn't match too. But I think his cluster is standard without any modificatiations.

20thanniver-ls, please make a couple of photos of the connectors and the area behind the cluster.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 24, 2010, 05:56:19 PM
Traced the resistor wire down, it was piggybacked off of a wire (gray/yellow - I forget the pin number) on the ignition switch connector, and the end was burnt. Cut the burnt end off, attached the jumper with an inline circuit breaker from the black/light green wire from the ignition switch, to the resistor wire in pin 12 of the cluster connector, and still nothing.

I tested for power at the black/green wire, and at the resistor on pin 12, both have power. I grounded out the temp wire and the temp gauge pegged, however the gas gauge remained the same.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 24, 2010, 06:03:01 PM
And did you ground the gas gage too?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 24, 2010, 06:03:42 PM
Not too sure how to do that....
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 24, 2010, 06:54:47 PM
Ground pin 15. Pin 13 is temperature. If you have about 20 Ohm resistor, put it between gage and ground. It's a protection of the gage. Each gage should have resistance 12,5 Ohm.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 24, 2010, 07:36:32 PM
And this would make the gas gauge read full?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 24, 2010, 07:43:04 PM
Not full, but about 3/4. Full is 8-12 Ohm, empty 60-86 Ohm. If you look at the picture above, it's written there ;-)
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 24, 2010, 10:37:04 PM
ill do an update to for everyone

like said, the cluster pin 12 gray resistor wire with yellow writting on it was traced back to a gray wire which apparently opperates funcionally the same as the black / green.  the resistor wire was found to be disconnected and burnt.

skinned back resistor wire and inserted it inline with a fused jumper wire to both the ignition switch gray wire. 

power was finally found on pin 12 of the cluster.
cluster was hooked back up
temp wire was attached to the +12v battery (oops) on his part and should have been grounded.
key was turned on and the temp needle came up slow
accident was discovered and the temp wire was moved to ground.

this part is bad because 12v battery was injected up the temp sensor red wire and up into the cluster.  its possible the guages might have been damaged.

I told him to turn off the key, and ground the temp wire.
Nothing happened. 
left side of cluster has no lighting but bulbs are good.
speedo module has not lighting but LCD display can barely be seen.
I told him if he is lucky, the ivr is blow only, otherwise the ivr is blown along with the guages.

after some working on it, he must have checked his spare and existing ivr and hooked everything up, smoke came out the top of the speedo module where the bulbs are. 

goals achieved so far.........
12v finally appears on pin 12 of the dirvers side connector.
resistance wire can either be bonded to the gray or black/grn wire on the ign switch.

I believe both IVR's have been physically verified as not damaged , ie- no open conductors.  without a meter, its hard tell.

the early metion of smoke coming out of the speakers is something that has me bothered.

i propose you pull all fuses except for the ones required to operate the cluster,, work on that circuit and get it operational.  I have a gut feeling some other circuit is hampering this problem.

BTW everyone,,,,,,,,,, The gray resistance wire was installed recently.  the wire was installed on pin 12 of the driver side connector and ran down to the ign switch gray wire.  The installer split the insulation on the gray wire and soldered the wire there.  not a bad job but indeed an after the fact fix which indicates some serious before hand issues with the car.

Car was purchased with the temp and gas guage not working.

sometimes you gotta have the car to fix it and in this case i cant get to it.  Its over my head to some levels being so far away.  there are so many things i would check that the list to burden him with would be so overwhelming. 

Also,, he does not have a meter but can make one by means of a 6v battery and a test light in order to continuity check conductors.  I told him to disconnect his battery when injecting a voltage on one end of a conductor in order to check it with a test light on the other end.  this is a decent substitute for a meter.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 24, 2010, 11:06:28 PM
If I test ground the gas gauge as Trinom is saying, and it pegs like the temp gauge is doing, then i can rule out the IVR, and the possibility of having bad gauges as Me and Scott discussed earlier.

What is really bothering me,, is why it was replaced in the first place, and why the black/green wire is ran to the fuse box and not pin 12, and why the resistor wire was pinned there with an extra ground.......
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 26, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
Ok, Trinom, I think you had the the temp gauge and gas gauge pins backwards. My gas gauge was pin 13 (yellow and white) and my temp gauge was pin 15 (red and white).

But thats besides the fact, I had both gauges grounded out, and both gauges pegged. So, that tells me my Ivr is good, and my gauges aren't blown, correct? Now, when I turn the key on, the gas gauge dosen't read without it being grounded out, and I haven't run the car to let it warm up to correctly test the temp gauge. Also, only half of the cluster lights up, the speedo still dosen't light up. I'm not sure where to check now that I know that the IVr and gauges are good. Relays?????
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 27, 2010, 02:12:25 AM
you need to make  sure you have approx 5v on the output of that ivr.  your previous evaluation would lead me to answer yes but we dont want to assume right now.  you could have something as simple as a broken flex print run leading up and along the left side of the cluster.

Easy enough to fix ,hard to find unless you study the back of the cluster to locate the various test points.

With a meter, you could continuity check the runs from the connectors all along the various directions.
furthermore, you could wire up two 6v batteries in series and inject power / ground on the correct pins and prob with your test light as well. you could easily trace power up to the inop bulbs ect.  Maybe starting off with one 6v battery might be better since we really dont know what is being achieved by the resistor wire feeding power to the cluster other than possibly a current limiter.

with your test light and your cluster hooked to the car, prob on the tang sticking out along various bulb sockets to see if you have power along the left side of the cluster.

what a cluster "F",, no pun intended:D
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 27, 2010, 07:17:13 PM
Ok Scott, got a meter. Now, I half-ass know how to use one correctly, but in this situation, I don't think half ass is gonna cut it lol.

Now, I know I need to test for continuity, but I'm not sure where to test and where to put the +/- leads, or really which setting to put the meter on.  I am getting power to all used bulbs in the cluster, the ivr is getting power, and the gauges are getting power. ( I used my test light to determine this, it was before I got the meter.)
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 28, 2010, 12:14:32 AM
Page 127 for the 3.8 / 5.0 assigns no wire color to the IVR input power lead on pin 12 of C285.

When we visit page 102 for instrumentation illumination, we see that c285 pin 12 is a GY/Y wire color assigned.

This matches his design so the gray wire with yellow writting on it is appropriate for the application.

Also,
Apparently the left side of his cluster hs power going to all the bulbs that will not light up to include the digi display.

Now we must find out if pin 14 (black chassis gnd) of the pass side connector C246 has continuity to the cars frame or not.

If not, fix it

if yes,

we are still screwed.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 28, 2010, 05:14:09 PM
Well, yes, apparently it does have continuity with the chassis ground....... And I probed various points on the back of the cluster, following the run for pin 12, and it seems to have continuity from pin 12 to the ivr, and from the ivr to the gauges. I also checked the input/output for the ivr, input is about 11.60 volts, and output was a little under 5 volts.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: tr_guy79 on January 28, 2010, 05:40:55 PM
I skimmed through this, and wanted to offer the following input

1.  The "extra" black wire about 2" long in your plug is most likely NOT a ground.  It is probably actually a 12v feed.  I know this, because I am using it to power the gauges in my '87.  It is tied into the "dummy" light circuit.

2.  The smoke and inop heater/blower points to a bad ignition switch/connector, as does your burnt gy/y wire.  These cars are known for the contacts heating up and melting the housing and plug.  I fixed mine by disassembling the whole deal, cleaning it up, and epoxying it back together (YMMV).

3.  To properly test the lighting in the dash, would take the meter to each bulb and check for power AND ground. Just because it is gettting +12v, doesnt mean the ground is good at each bulb.


-Shane
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 28, 2010, 05:49:02 PM
Quote
1. The "extra" black wire about 2" long in your plug is most likely NOT a ground. It is probably actually a 12v feed. I know this, because I am using it to power the gauges in my '87. It is tied into the "dummy" light circuit.

The one in my pin 12 is about 6 inches long, but that probably dosen't matter. I have wanted to try putting 12v to this wire, but since I'm not 100% sure, I don't want to inject 12v into a ground. BTW, is that in pin 12 of your gray dash connector also?

Quote
2. The smoke and inop heater/blower points to a bad ignition switch/connector, as does your burnt gy/y wire. These cars are known for the contacts heating up and melting the housing and plug. I fixed mine by disassembling the whole deal, cleaning it up, and epoxying it back together (YMMV).

All the wiring in the ignition switch connector that needs power is getting it. 11.60 volts. Even the wire  that was burnt is still getting 12v.

Quote
To properly test the lighting in the dash, would take the meter to each bulb and check for power AND ground. Just because it is gettting +12v, doesnt mean the ground is good at each bulb.

Tested for that as well. They are getting power and ground....
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 28, 2010, 11:56:20 PM
ok,, this doesnt make sense,, got continuity from the ground wire to the chassis of the car,,cool
got power to the bulbs,, cool.


continuity test a random bulb, if its not blown,, then we need to stop an regroup on ideas.

it looks like the ivr is operational,, would be a good idea to swap in the other one to check its operation as well.  That wont take you but a couple seconds, your prob getting good at it by now.

also,, for snits and grins,,, unplug the connector that your gray/yellow wire is at.  measure the resistance of the wire. stick your black lead on connector end at the column, stick your red lead at pin 12 on the cluster connector C285.  should read about 8 ohms.

Also,, i re-scanned page 102 as its always been a complaint from a few people. 
see link,,,,,,,,  http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f162/jcassity_bucket/
One thing we can resolve is why the speedo section is getting no lighting.  look at the diagram then check pin 18  white / light blue of C285 (left connector) for power. If no power, it starts to point upstream in the diagram.

Also, it may be pointless but see if you have power on pin 8 light blue/red of the right hand cluster conn c246.

what a cluster f#$*
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 29, 2010, 02:30:04 PM
Ok, tested ohms between ignition connector and pin 12, and I'm getting around 9.7 ohms.

Checked for power on pin 8 on c246, and it appears to be grounded out. I first tested with my test light, and it didn't light up. Then I put the meter to Dc volts, put the black lead to a frame ground, and put the red lead to pin 8, and got negative voltage, my meter read like -96.2v,,,,, I don't know if my meter was just going nuts or what.....but I am certain there is no power getting to it.

Also checked for power to pin 18 on c285, it's getting about 11.5v to the pin.

Something else I noticed that seems odd: I know that when a car is in gear, and the engine is off, and you try to start it, some of the indicators come on. So thinking about this, I already had my car in "1" from removing the cluster, I hooked the cluster back up, and tried to start the car. The "Brake" indicator on the left side lit up. WTF???

You think maybe pin 8 is shorting everything out? Wouldn't that explain why the resistor wire may have burned in the first place?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 29, 2010, 09:59:08 PM
pin 8 will only get power with the headlamp switch on.  you probably were reading millivolts.

Turn on your headlamps and see what you have.

If you suddenly have power on the LCD display bulbs as well as all the other bulbs,,, there is a missing ground somewhere.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 29, 2010, 10:04:38 PM
Ok, my "to do" list now is to check continuity and ohms between the LB/R wire on the headlight switch to pin 8 on the dash connector. It should read low resistance correct?

Also, to recheck pin 14 for continuity and also check for ohms, whilst using a better known frame ground, possibly the ebrake. Now, about what should the resistance be for each?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2010, 12:50:02 AM
on the pass side conn C246.........
check for power on pin 8 of the connector after the headlamp switch is turned on.

if no power , report back

check continuity from pin 14 to chassis of car on "tone" or "beep".  If the beep skips a little , flip the meter to ohms and tell us what that reading is.  I should read less than an ohm.

on the driver conn C285
check for power on pin 18 for power.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2010, 11:05:30 AM
did you ever continuity test a random bulb that had power but would not light up?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 11:48:20 AM
Actually, just getting ready to do all those checks now, stay tuned.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 12:19:06 PM
OK, so I checked for power to pin 8, and I'm getting about 10.25 volts.

Checked continuity from pin 14 to frame ground, got a steady beep. switched over to ohms, my meter read 0.00.

Checked power for pin 18, and it's got 10.25 volts.

Checked for continuity between the LB/r wire in headlight switch, and pin 8 on the connector, it has cont. and meter reads 0.00 ohms
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 12:20:36 PM
Going back out to cont. check a bulb on the left side (there is about a ft of snow on the ground and it's cold!!)

*EDIT* Checked continuity between one of the speedo bulbs, and the run of film going to it, (I peeled back a little of the film to expose the copper film stuff) and it has continuity.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2010, 05:56:01 PM
i meant an individual bulb. 
pull it out to double check the element isnt open.

its not unlikely an inrush of power could have blown them (ie- left side of cluster bulbs) and still not have resudue on the glass itself.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2010, 07:13:03 PM
tone out like below and tell us if you have continuity
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 07:58:11 PM
Ohhhhhhh ok, gotcha. Took one of the speedo cluster bulbs out, no continuity......
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 08:02:38 PM
Ok checked the cluster as you showed above, no continuity, but I couldn't peel back the film......
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 09:47:40 PM
Went and bought some new bulbs, installed them, and no difference. The speedo lights up, with the headlight switch off, but when turned on, everything goes off but the high beam indicator. Of course it couldn't be that simple......
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2010, 10:04:45 PM
when you barely move the headlamp switch on, do you hear the cluster illumination relay "click"?

should be located on LH side of instrument panel near headlamp switch, or near center of cluster behind radio up in there ,, above trans hump.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 30, 2010, 11:32:53 PM
I will definitely have to check on that tomorrow.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2010, 02:13:10 AM
you never did fully explain what happened after bad bulbs were replaced.

when you replaced them, did the speedo as well as all other functions light up?

when the headlamps are turned on ,, do all functions come on but the speedo goes out?

Also, contintuity check all your fuses.  also check to see if it appears a fuse is missing.

Also, do you have auto lamps?

dont forget to answer everything, knowing you have climate control leads me to believe you have many options we have not discussed.  I was originally under the impression you had a very base modle.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 09:06:53 AM
After the bulbs were replaced, the speedo came on, as well as the battery light,and seatbelt light. When I turned the headlights on, everything went off, the only thing that lit up was the high beam indicator. I do not have autolamps. However, I did try to start the car and noticed I had a dead battery, so I am gonna charge it up today and see what happens.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2010, 01:28:19 PM
jump start that thing already:hick:

a dead battery would produce the symptoms you have,,lets cross our fingers.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 01:33:24 PM
Ok, charged the battery and started the car. No difference, however there is a relay located really close to the firewall behind the headlight switch that I can hear constantly clicking with the car running. It does this with the headlights on, or off. I also noticed the gas gauge moved slightly and so did the temp gauge (temp gauge is still grounded) and thats when I started hearing the relay clicking...
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 01:47:32 PM
After letting run for a while, I hooked the temp sensor back up, and it's reading, the gas gauge still barely moves, and I no longer hear the clicking I heard when first started. Also, the blower motor is working as it should.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2010, 01:55:06 PM
do you think you might be low on gas?
that clicking made me think a diode was shorted somewhere, which in effect would cause surges of power delivery across all your devices.



tell me whats not working,,,,,,,,,
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
I could be low on gas, but the needle isn't even reaching the orange mark.

The things that aren't working.......as far as I know, the only thing not working is the backlighting in the cluster with the lights on. Hell, even the oil light and battery light come on now with the ket turned to "on". The blower motor used to only work on defrost (no matter what spot the dial was in, it only blew out of the defrost vents) and now it is fully functional. The clock (buttstuffog) stopped working also.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2010, 02:40:23 PM
with headlamps off and speedo lit (no general illumination),, all seems normal

with headlamps on and speedo goes dark and there is no back lighting, I would check the connector on the back of the main light switch  Light blue / red wire or the tan white wire.

since there are two fuses in this layout already including the main light switch circuit breaker,, just jumper the tan white to the light blue / red wire with a paper clip.  ((with the connector plugged in to the main light switch))).

turn on switch and see what happens.

if fuses blow, main light switch problem

if everything lights up, the problem is in the connector on the main light switch or on the main light switch connector.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2010, 02:57:06 PM
time to work on clock power now?

remember to list everything that does not work.

run through all the features you can think of.  power seats, mirrors, trunk, dome lights, glove box, ect ect
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 04:30:37 PM
Ok, as far as the gas gauge goes, I did fail to remember as well as mention that the car is on ramps, and didn't have much gas to begin with, so that explains the ultra low reading. However I did put a little bit of gas in and the needle moved a little more.


So, now I plugged the breaker back in that I was previously using inline with the jumper, and the things that aren't working now are the power mirrors and the clock.

*Edit* Clock lights up, just the hands aren't turning. I may have a spare clock somewhere, I'd have to find it first....
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on January 31, 2010, 07:01:57 PM
Are you sure, that the clock is gone? I think there is another problem with electricity. Clock rotation has definately another fuse than illumination.

And what's the result of the head light switch test?


//EDIT: Here is the fuse list and their location in the fuse panel.
(http://www.abload.de/img/ford_pojistky2x7i.jpg)
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 07:20:01 PM
Quote
And what's the result of the head light switch test?

If your talking about the test in post 84, we never got to it. We realized the loose wire on the switch as we were about to run that test.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2010, 07:28:27 PM
power door locks work?

sounds like we are getting there.

since the clock is pretty simple,, you can test yourself for a while on the evtm and figure out why thats not working.

same for power mirror,,,
my bets are that you have just a few more things not working but you mght not know it until you go to use the feature.

looks like you had to do a crash course in electrical troubleshooting.  Now take all these things you've learned to work and show em you can do it. 

Trinom
You wanna take it from here? I have to be gone all week in NC.

so are we almost done? 

just kidding on the clock and mirror,, we all can continue helping.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 07:37:32 PM
Trinom - I have tested all fuses and circuit breakers.

Tomorrow I am gonna get this clock situation figured out. Now that I have a better understanding of the evtm and using a meter (Thanks again, Scott) I'm pretty sure I can get it figured out.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on January 31, 2010, 11:16:47 PM
I was looking at the evtm for the power mirrors and clock, and so far I need to check the lg/y wire at connector 413 behind the door panel for voltage and follow the wire to the clock, as it also seems to power the clock.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on February 01, 2010, 01:30:50 AM
I dont see a darn thing about an buttstuffog clock in the evtm.  fuse 8 or 6 power runs would be best to chase,, not the illumination colors i think your tracing. 

however, if its not lighting up, its a good start.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on February 01, 2010, 06:40:44 AM
I didn't see anything for the buttstuffog clock either, just digital.  The lg/y wire I was talking about runs to the power mirror motors and the clock.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on February 01, 2010, 07:49:09 AM
Quote from: jcassity;308751
fuse 8 or 6 power runs would be best to chase,, not the illumination colors i think your tracing.
Fuse 8 is directly connected to digital clock. Fuse 6 is connected to clock through the ignition switch, so for buttstuffog clock is this connection useless. Take a look to all things connected to fuse 8 at first.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on February 01, 2010, 09:32:50 AM
on a side note, you can take the power mirror interior cover off to gain access to the plug for the mirror in order to prob for power.

its unlikely you will find power but it does give  you confirmation on wire colors ect so you know you are chasing the right group of conductors.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on February 01, 2010, 08:11:59 PM
*Update* ???????? Ok, I had to file my taxes this evening after work, so I didn't get much time to fool with the clock/power mirror situation. However, I was checking to make sure antifreeze was in the car (previous owners had told me they only put straight water in it:mad:) and was letting it run and warm up, I was sitting in the drivers seat just staring at the broken clock, so I decided to take my pair of small channelocks and lightly tap on the face of the clock. Well it the hands starting moving backwards; so I tapped on it a few more times, and it started working correctly. I'm thinking maybe I have yet another loose pin, at least for the clock anyhow. Still no power mirrors. I think the motors may be bad, but thats just an assumption for now, hopefully tomorrow I will be able to trace wires and meter them for the power mirrors.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on February 01, 2010, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: 20thanniver-ls;308893
the hands starting moving backwards; .


dude!!!!!!!!!! wtf!!!!

can i cut my wrists now:flip:
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on February 01, 2010, 10:25:16 PM
Yes ,if you please. Maybe it needed a jumpstart lol. But seriously, I am still going to investigate this clock deal a little bit, make sure the pins aren't loose in the back. I pulled on quite a few wires tracking that resistor wire down. I may as well check all connectors in that vicinity as well. All I have is time....
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on February 03, 2010, 07:34:39 PM
I'm leaving computer till monday. Hope you will find something useful during the weekend :D
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on February 08, 2010, 03:50:46 AM
how we doing on this?
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on February 08, 2010, 05:19:29 PM
Everything is still good on the cluster part of it, the clock still works, and the power windows aren't working. There is power going to the motors, and to the switch.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: jcassity on February 08, 2010, 11:25:28 PM
ill bet this helps to trace the circuit.

i really dont like the evtm illustation but it is what it is.

left drawing is just the left switch working the window,  right drawing is also just the left switch working the window in the opposite direction.
Title: No power to IVR...
Post by: Trinom on February 18, 2010, 05:55:34 PM
20thanniver-ls, do you have some news for us?