I need the little metal peice that goes on top of the plenum on the motor. One of the things that says 5.0 on it. It can be cracked or whatnot, I just need a cheap one to screw around with. I want to paint 3.8l on it just so when it goes to get an inspection they don't give me again because I swapped the motor and all.
I thought I posted this already, but I can't find the thread.
$12.00 shipped for a good one.PM me.I'll be home around 3:00 today.
LOL. Man, i don't think trying to trick them is going to help things. You should have no trouble getting it inspected even with a V8 swapped into it due to its age. What's the problem?
Hey Vinnie-If the op doesn't take it-I'll take it. Or if you have another one thats good. I need the screws also.
Thanks
post a pic of whats under the hood.
this is crazy,, mass must be hell on your wallet.
shame, its not about really tricking them. The guy at the station told me they just look for the imprinting of numbers on the older cars. Its not that the car wouldn't pass inspection, its just the trouble to get the engine size changed on the title and so forth. It has to be inspected by the state police and whatnot. If they find one thing out of place they will fail you. I mean down to something as stupid as if a vacuum canister is moved somewhere(whoops).
kendoo, if you need it take it. If you can use a good one on your car take it, I don't want to be ruining parts that others need.
There is not emissions testings on the older cars in mass anymore, as long as visually everything is there. I know the guy at the station and he told me if it says 3.8l v6 on the new motor he could pass it and that could just be an honest mistake, the shop wouldn't get screwed over for that. It is more of a cheap way to beat the system. He knows what I did and he looked at it away from the shop. He said it looks fine, but he just has to protect himself and whatnot. Which I understand.
Ma. is crazy, and expensive. Its difficult to determine if it's more crazy than expensive or vice verse though.
So in other words, Its easier to be dishonest and beat the system than it is to just do things correctly? Too much of a hassle?
Sounds to me like "your guy" needs to lose his inspection cert.
Listen, If all of the equipment carried over and the car will pass inspection then what's the issue? I'm betting you cut corners, probably deleted the EGR, no cats, no smog pump, that sort of stuff. If so, the car isn't legal for use on public roads in MA. period.
Anyway, the state police don't inspect cars, and you don't have to change engine size on your title unless you sell it. I had V8 converted cars pass just fine WITH the sniffer. If it were a kit car such as a factory five we would be talking an entirely different ball game.
If you car is say an 87 4cyl, 6cyl etc car, than you can legally swap in a V8 of that year or newer provided all its emissions equipment are swapped as well.
Yes in this case it is easier to be "dishonest". Let me explain:
I bet you I didn't cut corners! I don't see the point, I use this car as aneveryday driver, and eliminating the emmisions isn't going to do much. And extra 20hp?, on a car that only has 150? Whop de doo, not worth the money, to me. The issue is not that it wouldn't pass its the fact that if he puts in 5.0l for engine size where it used to be 3.8l its going to be a problem and raise questions. If he puts it in, it might print out, but either the town or the registry will pick up on it once its in the system. The car has factory replacement everything, exhaust, egr, factory smog pump connected properly and working. I'll attach pictures tomorow. And your wrong, the state police have a division for checking over cars. You have to take the car to them, and they go over it. I went through it on my 1972 cutlass 442, I've been there. Andthe car is an 88 but the engine is from an 87. Essentially its the same motor, really.
Ibtl
it means it's turning into a g match, most likely to be locked.. ;)
Now, back to topic...FEDERAL law mandates you can NOT swap an older engine into a newer car. Yes, we all know that there's not one mouse-turd's worth of difference between an '87 5.0, and an '88 5.0, ...but rules is rules. I didn't make 'em either so don't holler at me! :D
I'm not gonna tell you your wrong, right, or both...my point is that the federal ruling supercedes whatever state law you may have.
As far as the 5.0 vs. 3.8 thing...really, if all smog equipment is functioning properly and accounted for, the 5.0 will NOT make any more emissions than the 3.8 will.
The ONLY thing I can think of that engine size would make any difference over would be insurance...
Show those pics though :D
No, It won't. Been there, done that.
You can't explain your way out from breaking the law. If the car has a V8 under the hood, the mechanic is required by law to log it in as so regardless of engine plate. Ignorance of the law does not mean you don't have to follow it. IMHO, the mechanic is taking more of a risk fibbing. The whole scenario is kind of mind boggaling, and silly really.
If the fact actually
is that you must have this state police division of whatever inspect the car, than that's what you need to be doing rather than circumventing the system. If the swap was done properly, there should be no issue. Why un-necessarily break the law and put your mechanics (though its his stupid decision) cert. at risk?
Maybe your cirspoogestances were different? I went to three inspection places and they all told me that it would be a problem, because the computer is looking for 3.8 and if it comes up 5.0 its a problem. If your talking about your mustang, you used the same year motor, and a gt is a v8 to start, and the cobra motor would also be a v8, that might have something to do with it.
Seeing 3.8l on the top of the motor he told me it could just be a clerical mistake or whatnot. Thats not severe and wouldn't be putting his cert at risk, he told me that himself. The state police inspection is not easy to pass. If there is a exhaust hanger 1/2 inch not where the factory put it, they will fail you. Stuff like that is what I'm worried about. When the Olds had to get inspected, there was no overflow tank for the radiator, they didn't come with one and they made me put one in. And I didn't have a windshielf washer fluid bottle, had to put one in.. Stupid stuff like this(obviously not those exact scenarios), the car isn't worth the aggrivation for all that. Not to me.
Fordtruckfreek, I know your not supposed to, the registry told me there are "loopholes" to that. Them being, if the two motors are rated for the same emmsions (the 87 and 88) motor, then the state police could inspect it and declare it okay. But they nitpick. I mean you really have to have everything perfect.
And pictures, just to be honest. :)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/103_0045.jpg)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/103_0044.jpg)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/103_0043.jpg)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/103_0042.jpg)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/103_0041.jpg)
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr148/jpc647/103_0040.jpg)
Sorry for the py exhaust shot, the ground is soaked. But its a cat, afactory replacement unit from Walker.
And I don't mean for this to come off as a g match, I'm just trying to explain everything.
It's not a g match. Not at all.
Nope, I'm referring to a 1988 4 cyl turbo coupe with a conversion completed with a 1992 5.0 HO from a mustang.
FWIW, The mustang is OBDII so when connected to the inspection/scan tool, it know that the the engine is not the original GT engine. The VIN# shows its a 2000GT and the computer scans as a 00' cobra believe it or not however there are no conflicts or red flags. Also consider that there was no PRODUCTION 2000 mustang cobra.
Thats not a clerical error. I typo sure. Hey, i don't care weather or not that's the method he wants to take to pass you. It makes no difference to me. It's just not legal and like i said, kind of odd and not lawful.
Again, It doesn't matter how nit picky the "police state inspection" is. Your the one that stated it's required, and your the one willingfully and purposefully circumventing it. That's not legal and the car is not legal for use on public roads. Period.
As far as i know the only time a complete vehicle inspection you speak of is required is when a new VIN must be acquired (Kit cars and what not). You seem to think other wise. I don't know for sure, you seem to. Your breaking the law. Like i said, you can't explain your way out of breaking the law. I don't care weather or not you get away with it, I hope you don't get caught. I don't think you will either.
So I guess a rebuilt '86 LSC engine, with Trick Flow smog certified heads, in a '88 TC isn't legal??? :rollin:
Screwem', in VA it's all in who you know, been getting stickers for 10 years... It'll be legal when the next inspection is due, by that time it'll have a '91 Stang engine...
Alright, not back to the original issue, any have a screwed up 5.0 id plate they want to donate? lol
I have one I wont be using, pm me an offer and its yours.
My offer still stands.I have about 8 or 10 of them.
traditionally it means In Before The Lock.
Not sure what / how that applies here.
Wouldn't an 88 or newer 3.8 have a 3.8 plate on it? Don't know for sure, just asking.
Why not repaint the plate you already have on the engine?
The 88 engine I have is molded into the plenum. Its not removable. Sadly.
Vinnie, sorry I didn't know you had so many of them. Are they all "HO" plates, do you have the standard ones?
I have both.H.O plates cost a little more than the standard ones.
I have a standard plate that wont be used, vinnie sent it to me you can have it or vinnie can have it back.
I need a normal one. You can send it to me if you don't need it anymore? :)
I don't need it.Pass it along.
Right here where I live, you can take your car in for an inspection, they pull a wheel or two off, check the brakes, bearings, tie rods, and ball joints. Slap wheel back on. Look under for verification of cats and lers or glasspacks etc. Make sure exhaust goes past passenger compartment, and not hanging down, wired up with baling wire, etc.
Lower car, and start, listen for exhaust leaks, check horn, lights, wipers, tires, and windshield for cracks. Check mirrors, seatbelts, and belts on the engine.
Emissions....what emissions?
"Oh yeah, I put a bigger engine in."
Who gives a shiznit, it doesn't leak, smoke, rattle, and looks factory. 'Nuff said.
Simple really...Missouri is nice in the Spring, lol ;)
I'm not going to insult the state you live in, because you're obviously there for a reason, but...they MADE you get an overflow bottle when it wasn't there from factory?? :punchballs:
What in the blue hell...?
I'd suggest just telling them it's a Sport, but if it was originally a V6 car, the VIN will not match...
Still, a lot of sidestepping for something piddly, in my mind.
If everything is working right, and as-factory, why not have it inspected by the bureau responsible for such and do it right the first time?
Why be sneaky if you have nothing to hide?
Hey, we deserve every bit of ridicule coming to us for living here. My wife has a large family and pretty much won't move out of the state because they are all so close. I have no right forcing her to. That is why my family and i remain here.
My happiest day would to load up a truck, head the hell out of this state forever and watch it burn to the ground in the rear view.
He already said it's easier to be dishonest and break the law. They are "too picky" for his taste. I might just agree with that fact but it's still no excuse.
It's also much easier to do, or to not do alot of things that are legally or morally/ethically wrong. Life is all about the decisions we make.
I wish my state was lax on inspections, but they aren't. I do plan on moving, but I'm only 19 and I'm still in college. I live at home during breaks and summer, so financially, well I can't live on my own.
Yes, i had proper documentation that in a 1972 Cutlass 442 there was no factory installed overflow bottle, only drag set up cars had them, *dealer installed*. The guy told me thats all fine and well, but if I want to drive it on public roads, it needs to have one now. I'm surprised they let the edelbrock carb and intake slide, but they technically can be considered improving fuel economy.
I didn't mean for it to become a huge ordeal, lol. Just a simple piece of metal and a grinder and spray balm and an hour. I know the guys around here who do the sticks just look at what the motor says, they don't inspect or count plugs or what not..
Technically I don't have anything to hide, except some of the factory replacement things are different than factory. For examply, the replacement y pipes do not have cats in them, the factory one did. The replacement system has one cat in the intermediate pipe(i think thats what its called). Thats enough for them to reject it, because in thier mind its missing emmsions equiptment. Walker is the only system out of three I tried that the y pipe was even close, and I'm not putting a custom system on the car, its a dd. There could be a dozen of "differences" like this that I'm not even aware of, like the turbo coupe hood, didn't come on the car, why is it there, like this. And if they find a couple of things, it all has to be changed and then reinspected by them. All said and done, it could be a lot of money, or it could be a few small changes, kind of a big gamble though. And once I get one sticker, it won't really matter, I have documentation, receipts, etc showing when the motor was put in, once it gets one sticker, if they find out later on down the road its not my fault they didn't catch it, state law says it has to be "grandfathered" in, as long its not modified. I mean there are a few stipulations, it has to be an engine the car could have come with, not excessively built, and so forth. That came from lt. in the mass state police, he's a local at a crusie night, and he looked it up for me.
As far as being illegal, yeah maybe, but they have loopholes in the laws for reasons, because some laws are dumb. haha, thats a joke people. My v8 gets the same mileage as the v6, well not when its real cold out, but normally.
`
It's not a huge ordeal. I don't care what you do, It just isn't legal. And your mechanic is a clown. If he goes by the friggin sticker to determine engine type he really should lose his cert.
Technically or otherwise, obviously you do have issues to hide.
Well that's too bad then isn't it? Rules are rules, I didn't right them. You could have thrown mustang headers on it and an H pipe just as easy. You probably should have made the swap worth while dropping a HO in there actually. They cant say jack about the hood, your making things out worse than they are.
That's the way it is man. No biggie if things are in order. But do what you gotta do i guess. Personally i try to do things that make sense and i chose to do things the legal way. If you couldn't afford to do it the correct way and the legal way, then you should have just left the V6 in there.
Recently here in Ma a 89 ish saleen convertable went up for sale. Gorgeous, flawless car. The guy listed it on a forum. A local guy 20 minuts away had cash in hand and wanted to see the car. The seller avoided him and woudn't return emails or calls for some reason but was working with someone 2000 miles away who was prepared to buy the thing sight unseen in good faith.
The local guy questioned the sellers motives and it was eventually revealed, not by the seller btw, that the car was not original. It had been wrecked, but not reported. Instead they took another vert, and swapped everything into it and made whatever repairs it needed. They went as far as to swap the vin plates.
Now, some guys said that it was no big deal, and it kept an "original" saleen on the road. Obviously the car was no longer original but the seller had no intention of revealing this, but rather take the money and scam the seller. That's a federal crime. I would have been livid if i were the purchaser.
I guess my point is, everybody has their own respect for the law.
Your story of the mustang, well thats a little different. Not even relevant.
Secondly, my "mechanic" as you call him isn't my mechanic, he's a friend of mine who owns a repair shop. If you look at anyone nowadays working at these stations, the bang out inspections pretty fast. Checking lights and looking at the emmisions controls. Most people are not going to take the time to count spark plugs or whatever else to see its got two more cylinders than its supposed to.
Secondly, mustang headers and an "h" pipe would fail the inspection, because its not factory for a thunderbird, so thats not an option.
The hood was an example, I stated that. Considering I had to put the overflow bottle in the Olds, I'm not making things out to be worse than they are.
Secondly, who are you to tell I me whether or not my swap was worth while or not? And don't assume I skipped steps, because I showed you I didn't. The pictures show that? I use this car to commute, I don't need anything "fast or High Output". The parts car came with the v8, it was already there, I'm not here to make an 88 thunderbird fast. I have a cutlass 442 for the summer, that I do that kind of stuff to. Its worth a hell of a lot more, and if I needed cash, its a lot easier to sell. Everyone and their mother wants a classic, not a huge market for late 80's thunderbirds( :( )
Again, if I put a plate on there and they don't catch it I'm grandfathered, not illegal. The law states if it slips by and has been inspected there is no need for the state police inspection. If i walk in and don't tell the guy I transplanted the engine, and he doesn't catch it, I'm not lying. He just didn't catch it. Obviously I'm not talking about the owner, he owns the place, he's not a grease monkey(not that there is anything wrong with it).
And lastly, I'm not going to argue with you anymore, an 88 thunderbird mint isn't worth a lot of money, and its not worth putting a lot of money into. I just wanted a 5.0 plate, thanks for hijacking the thread giving me lessons on morals. The title and posting was for a 5.0 plate, do you have one to sell me?
Sure it is, some people think lightly of breaking the law, depending on how it benefits them, even though it may be a federal offense. Try this one....I really want a candy bar i spy on the shelf in the store, It might be more expensive in this store, than the one down the street and itwould be such a hasle to stand in line, or make my way to the other one. It would be much easier if i eat it here cause if its gone and i get out the door, there's nothing anybody can do about it.
Any inspection mechanic worth his job will pick up on that in freaking instinct. No excuse to miss it.
Just my opinion man, take it easy. IMHO, not worth getting dirty for.
So why swap the V8 in then? Nothing wrong with a V6 for commuting. If the engine was bad, It would have been cheaper, easier, faster and legally less hassle to swap the correct equipment in.
You've been caught already, hence you trying too sneak it through. Even your buddy won't inspect it without fudging things, that he already knows about. Both of you are knowingly and willingly breaking the law? Why do you keep trying to justify that? It's cut and dry man. Like i said, its your deal man.
Show me the text....
I'm not trying to give you moral guidance, you seem to think your not trying to break the law, and you are. Pretty cut and dry. Your just annoyed because you know im right.
If you wanted a plate, you should have just asked for a plate rather than getting into why, if it's for an unlawful purpose. Its the internet, you offered up your bass ackwards reason for needing one and here we are. Sorry for being honest, apparently its not a quality that's all that common anymore. And nope, I threw that stuff away when i couldn't sell it.
i guess i am slow sometimes..... I now get it.
ill eat rust and shiznit a plate to stop the debate.
same here... I vote lock:locked:
Meh, Before it does get closed, if it does i would at least like to apologize for coming down on this dude the way i did. I guess it just struck a chord in me just the right way.
We all have choices in our life. We all have the choice which laws we want to follow and any reasonable person should realize the consequences if those actions. I think what set me off was that it seemed to me that he doesn't believe he is breaking the law, weather or not he gets away with it. His inspection guy doesn't get to decide the law. JPC647 knows the law and chooses to circumvent it. It is what it is. No big deal. Nobody's perfect, myself being a good example of that.
I hope he gets his inspection with no snags and moves along without issue. If he has any issues, I can probably get him an inspection.
this is one of those..........
"you might be dead right, but your still dead"
been there and got the tshirt myself.