After I swapped the Sport's front brakes from the 10" to the 11 inchers, the car was very twitchy, and seemed like it was scrubbing the tires.
(I DO know that on CoolCats article, it says to align the car...)
Well, the tires were severely toed-in after all was said and done, so last night I pulled the passenger side apart, and threaded out the outer tie-rod end about 6 turns, got it fit to drive again.
I know it'll need an alignment, but I plan on maybe driving it 50 feet or less at a time until I get new struts and shocks, THEN it'll get aligned.
This is just a head's-up for anyone who might be considering it...you may have to play with the tie rods to get it fit to drive to an alignment shop...
Unless I'm just the one in a million case lol:D
So how did you go about upgrading to 11"? Did you 5-Lug it? Or put on TC spindles?
I know Eric's site does much for outlining the procedure, but I would like to hear it firsthand. Thanks!
I'm still 4 lug for now, but yeah, I did use TC spindles, Stang calipers, new brake hoses.
I plan to go to 5 lug over the winter, or at least get the stuff to do that with, as well as new struts, shocks, and springs.
The hardest part of it all was getting the brake hoses right...I didn't want the rubber hose portions kinked when steering was at full lock, the fittings themselves were not so bad, just had to use a good penetrating oil and vice-grips judiciously lol
Oh, and by the way, it's a "well-worth-it" swap...if you've got a V8, or even a modded v6, it's a must have. For that matter, it's needed anyway...10" brakes blow goats lol
Just found this thread. Does anyone know if this set up will work with the PBR dual piston calipers.
Will 11" TC rotors fit under the turbines?
I did the 11" upgrade on a stang, turbines fit fine over them.:burnout:
I had the same issue when I switched to 11" 4 lug. I think it was expected IIRC - not sure what I was reading that told me that though. I did a 'tape measure' toe-in adjustment from underneath that has served me just fine.
Yeah, the later castings will fit, I think they have a date stamp, it *might* be E7, but I can't say for sure. I read it somewhere once, maybe CoolCats...but as mcb82gt stated about his, my turbines fit on mine, as well :D
Thanks for the commments guys.
Jeff, I saw your question about the PBR calipers, I'm not sure if they'll work with the TC-V8 Stang spindles, but I'm sure ChuckW could give you a definite answer, I think he's used them before. :D
I used fox mustang spindles for my conversion and yes, it was seriously toed in when I was done. I adjusted it as much as possible and then loaded it on a trailer and hauled it to a shop to get the alignment done.
Are you referring to the dual piston (44mm) PBR's off the 99 and up V6/GT Mustangs? I know they will work on the five lug conversions with the 94-95 & 96-98 Mustang spindles. You have to clearance the spindles just a tad on the top side of the spindle above each "ear" the caliper bolts to. I did this on my 93 coupe and the brakes were awesome. If you are talking about using these calipers on the 11" Fox rotors and Fox spindles I have no idea if they will work. I am thinking not as the SN95 rotors are 11.75" in diameter but I have not tried.
Darren
Is this swap a direct TC spindle, rotor and caliper swap?? I have a TC front end for parts on my Sport Coupe. Already did the TC rear swap and have been seriously considering the front brake swap.
Yes. You may need adapters for the rubber lines though.:D
Are there any sources for braided SS lines?? And by "adapters" do you mean just some threaded fittings to make the lines Sport Coupe lines mate to the TC calipers (or TC lines to the SC hardline)?
I have the Cobra rear brakes on my 83. I had to use two Edelmann 121034 fittings to adapt the 87-93 Mustang rear hard lines to the Maximum Motorsports 94-95 Mustang SS braided lines:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EDE0/121034.oap?mn=Edelmann&mc=EDE&pt=N1165&ppt=C0248
The braded lines are here:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49_144&products_id=1224
Here is the driver side installed with Chuck's rear shock adapter for the Griggs coil overs and Mustang length Koni dampers. You cannot see how the SS braided lines are connected in this shot but it gives you the idea:
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/dbrune_83/IMG_0189.jpg)
I used the rear hard lines off of a 87-93 Mustang so I could utalize the SS braided line from the hard line on the body to the hard lines on the rear end. It also cleared up some room for the right tail pipe as the 3" cat back pipes need all the room they can get.
I got the double flaring tool from Sears and I would suggest practicing on some junk tubing prior to doing the ones on the car.
Darren
Dredged this thread up because I'm reassembling the Cougar with the 11" upgrade.
I don't see this addressed anywhere but I'm sure someone else has seen this. I put four lug 11" rotor spindles from a mustang on, got the springs in, put the shock back in and found that the where the shock mounts on the spindle is thinner (3/4" thick vs. 1" originally) than the 10" spindle that I took off. Do I need to change to a fox mustang shock? TBird shock? Can you use washers to take up the slack?
Am I the only goofball seeing this? I didn't find any info on this on coolcats either.
Thanks guys
If your struts need replacing, just get a pair for a '94-'95 Stang GT.
Not sure if the Fox Stang V8 struts are long enough. I suppose I could compare part #'s.....:shakeass:
I've got the SN95 V8 struts on the front of mine (Thanks Vinnie!) and there's no length difference between those and the TC struts I was running...
You can also get spacers for your stock struts, although I wouldn't know where.
Post your results here if you would! :bowdown:;)
Its a well known fact but nothing that cannot be fixed. When I did that same conversion years ago I just used a washer that would shim the shocks. The best thing is to go with the 87-88 TC struts but that cost more $$. If you have lowered the car then you can get away with the Fox Mustang 5.0 struts.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=11947
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=15621
Darren
I did lower the car with Cobra springs but I haven't set it down to see how low it is. The shocks I'm using are new OEM motorcrafts I found in the trunk. I just made up the 1/4" space with two 5/8" dia washers from Lowe's. It worked and we'll try it for a start. I'll post pics and details on my build thread soon in "User Rides"
To quote Jack Hidley from Maximum Motorsports:
[COLOR="Blue"]"If you measure from the center of the upper hole in the strut ear to the shoulder of the shaft at the top, the distance should be 17.16" when the strut is fully extended. This is the same measurement for all OEM 87-93 Fox struts. An OEM SN95 strut measures 18.67".
You should ignore the length of anything below the upper strut hole. None of this affects the available bump or droop travel. It will only determine if the strut fits in the car without hitting the control arm or spindle."[/COLOR]
With that said the Fox struts are what you want to use with a lowered car as the SN95 may bottom out and that will cause an upset condition with the suspension. I have the Fox struts on my 83 and they work really well.
Darren
Washers work well,and they do sell spacers specifically for that spindle swap,but for ease and convenience,use the thick washers.Good luck.Glad to hear you're making good progress.I'm slacking bad.I have got to get busy getting the Sport's needs taken care of.
Good stuff, thanks Darren. Sounds like I'm on track.
Jack is the guy that helped me pick up my T56 in SF, Ca. Really nice guy. Genius too.
Thanks Vinnie. It's nice to see it looking like a car again.
some of the moneroe shocks come with spacer plates one on each side of the strut
also if doing this swap on a 4 cyl mustang, the T-bird TC and Mustang GT,spindles have a diffrent strut bolt space than the TC/GT bolt space
I did this swap also, on my 85 TC, I Used 88 mustang cross drilled rotors on the 87/88 TC hubs
the only diffrence I could find between the 88 Mustang GT rotors and the 87/88 TC rotors was the ABS ring on the inside of the rotor
Correct.
The '87-'88 TurboCoupe 11" front brake system is for all intents and purposes the same as the '87-'93 Fox Mustang GT and LX5.0 11" front brakes except for the obvious ABS components. It's also worth a mention that SOME Lincoln Mark 7 rotors can be fit onto these spindles for an 11", 5 lug setup, but some wheels will not fit correctly over the spindle ...
You can use TC spindles, or Mustang V8 spindles, either TC or V8 Stang rotors, independently of each other, they're all dimensionally the same.
birds and stang 5.0 have same strut #s. I checked!
Yes they do , i posted a thread about that a while back
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=27642
Read the link that hypostang posted as it elaborates more on the strut fitment.
xjeffs,
What year car is yours?
Darren
Curiosity got the best of me so I checked part numbers for the KYB GR2 for several cars of which none had the same part number:
1995 Mustang GT - 235060
1989 Mustang GT - 235009
1988 Cougar XR7 - 235008 (turbo) or 235005 (except turbo)
1985 T-Bird 5.0 - 235002
What I did find interesting is that the 235005 will fit all of the Mustangs 86 and down but only the four cylinder Mustangs from 87-93. I am pretty sure this has to do with the spindle mounting geometry...yeah I know, Captain Obvious. With that I would say that the Fox Mustang and Fox Bird/Cougar strut rod & body lengths are the same. This would also tell me that the SN95 struts would most likely work if the car was full height but not lowered as the strut is a longer unit and would bottom out hence Jack Hidley's comments in post #21. I think I pretty much stated what others have said but I had never researched it myself.
Here is a really good read on recommended struts/differences/applications of Fox/SN95/S197 struts.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1199248
What I took from all this conversation was that the SN95 units are physically longer than the Fox units (I think most were aware of this). Using Maximum Motorsports CC plates will give you one more inch of bump travel which I verified by call MM. So my take on all of this is that if you have a lowered Cougar or T-Bird the use of Fox Mustang struts and MM CC plates will give you the better setup for bump travel. As always, match your dampers to the spring rates to get the maximum performance out of the money you spend.
Darren