All of this happened when I re-upholstered my dashboard/new heater core and reinstalled everything. Here's the problem:
Number 13 and 18 fuses blew, I fixed it by removing the Systems Sentry thing in the dashboard. The copper lines on the SS's printed circuit were touching each other.
But I still don't have dash lights.
Looking at the EVTM i checked fuse 4 (it's fine) and the cluster illumunation relay. I switched the relay with the same one from the auto headlights and nothing changed. I wiggled the hell outta the dimmer wheel and nothing. I changed two headlight switches and nothing.
I am completely stumped, aside from maybe that the SS module needs to be installed to complete the circuit? Is that even possible?
Update: got another Systems Sentry module from a parts car and it blew the fuse again. I'll have to look around the dash to see if its wiring is at fault, but I can't see anything odd yet.
Do you have some multimeter? Does it blow the fuse if the SS module is disconnected?
Fuse nr. 13 - 5A - instrument cluster illumination lamps, radio, climate control
Fuse nr. 18 - 10A - warning indicator lamps, throttle solenoid positioner, low fuel module, dual timer chime, tachometer, washer fluid level indicator
So if both fuses are blown simultaneously, try to disconect the instrument cluster. It's only thing connected to both fuses I think.
Yeah it doesn't blow fuses with the SS disconnected. The gauge cluster works now, the tach died when both fuses blew. The SS is just in the dash, not connected.
I have a multimeter, not sure what to check because the shop manual isn't clear on that.
I might just buy another relay, not sure what else it is.
The stereo is working fine, I know that is a problem spot when installing an aftermarket unit, but I had functional lights when I did that. No pinched wires there.
which car?
Whoops sorry about that. It's my 88 Cougar XR-7.
I'm burnt out on the car right now, but I'll take a multimeter to a light socket, the relay and the fuse to see just how far the current goes in this circuit. What really burns me is that it worked FINE when I installed the dash, but by the time I installed everything into the dash, it went out! :mad:
What relay are you speeking about? About IC illumination relay, or about another one? I really don't know, why your tacho died. There must be some another fault in the circuit.
Yeah, the IC illumination relay.
The tach died because of the fuse blowing, which doesn't happen anymore because the Systems Sentry isn't connected anymore. That problem is fixed.
What is Systems Sentry? Is this unique to 88's ?
Systems Sentry is an informational panel located under the radio. It is an extra equipment, but I think most Birds have it. It has 6 bulbs - door ajar, low beam out, rear lamp out, low washer fluid, low fuel and low oil.
You can find the same SS in 83-88 Birds/Cougars (birds definately).
I'm not sure with this, but cars equiped with standard semi digital IC have some indicators directly on the IC.
(http://trinom.org/stazene/Ford/SS.jpg)
Thanks. The term "System Sentry" is not used in the EVTM. These were optional on the 84 T-Bird and mine does not have them. The Owners Guide calls them "Diagnostic Warning Lights"
I know. Some 87-88 (and maybe 85-86) has an ash tray at the place where should be the SS module located. Please ask some other expert :D.
I have my '86 and few pieces from wrecked 87/88 and I don't know exactly all the details of other model years. I'm still learning too :mullet:. The previous photo is from my '86. 87/88 (I don't know exactly, what part is from silver '87 and what from black '88, so I will use this marking) was V6 with base cluster and it didn't have SS, but there were some indicators in the IC. I don't have the base cluster at home, so I can't tell you the details now.
PS: I didn't wreck it, but I had an offer to buy some rests from these cars very cheaply.
The full digital dash has all of the same lights in it.
I am having my guage/RPM light randomly going out and coming back on. I am thinking it is probably the curcuit board behind the dash clusters.
Jeeves, have you had any opportunities to look into this further?
If not (or even if so) I have some homework for you...
- Leave the System Sentry unhooked. You've got to have a pinched wire somewhere in that system (or metal is touching a wire), but for the time being it seems unrelated to your instrument cluster problem.
- With the headlamp switch on, do you have illumination in the clock? How about the radio?
- Does the light in the ashtray in the console light up with the headlamp switch?
- Now, does everything light up BUT the cluster? It's the only problem in the whole illumination system when the switch is on?
- Pull the System Sentry from the dash, dig out the harness and find the wire that is light blue/red. I'm going to ASSume you have a test light. When you turn on the lights from the headlamp switch, does your test light on that wire light up?
I'm just trying to isolate the problem here, that's all. I've had a little bit of experience with this. ;)
i just havent had time to look into it, I figured the problem would be easy to find since everything worked prior to all the work done. i figured in a couple days the pinched power wire on some secondary circuit of the system would have been found.
Sadly no, and my brain still hurts from the tinkering...and I have other, non Cougar issues too. ;)
Agreed.
I have the dimming feature on the clock and radio, no illumination on radio (because its aftermarket) but none on the EQ (factory) which is more to the point. :(
No. :(
Its the entire illumination system. But it was fine the first 1-2 days of dash
(just the dash, not all the stuff that bolts in it) installation.
Will do that this week, thank you.
Again, thanks for your help Eric.
Alright, the way the system works is that there are two main feeds out of fuse #4 for the dash and console illumination. One light blue/red wire feeds the instrument cluster, clock and radio; the other feeds the System Sentry (or lighter panel), floor shift indicator, and ashtray light. If you can see the wiring directly above that fuse in the panel, you'll see what I'm talking about.
So...by deduction, if both circuits from the same fuse are not working, the problem could be anywhere in that system. But if one circuit works and the other doesn't, at least you know where to look for the problem. Technically the fuse should pop...but I've had instances where a pinched wire didn't pop the fuse, and instead produced feedback in the circuit.
If things were fine until you started bolting things back in (radio, System Sentry, etc.) then the problem virtually HAS to be with the wiring behind those specific items. Something is pinched or is touching metal. It's really easy to do, unfortunately. The main culprit wires are the light blue/red behind the radio, as well as the light green/yellow. Maybe even the orange/blue (radio dimmer). There's a lot of metal bracketry behind the center stack that can cause hell on a dash reinstall.
How is your igntion switch, anyway?
I replaced the ign switch about 5 years ago when I installed the Tripminder, even though I didn't need to. (It had the Ford recall done in the mid 1990s and it was still fine).
Thanks Eric, you've validated my concerns and gave me specifics to tackle. I'm hoping to make it happen this weekend, even if its raining and cold in Houston right now.
We had two inches of snow yesterday. I live in Houston for a reason. I don't believe this sh--.
I'll tackle the Cougar when it warms up a little bit.
Are there just Gremlins in the dash then? I finished installing an aftermarket stereo last night and now my dash does not light up, the right blinker signal doesn't flash, the clock doesn't work, and my trunk release quit working. wtf? :punchballs:
did you disconnect your battery when you installed it?
re-install the factory system and see if you stil have the same problem.
Yes, I removed the negative before I started the process.
Re-installed factory deck, and the problem persists...Further investigation is required, but if you have input, it would be greatly appreciated!!
ok, problem validated,
will dig my diagrams out and see but you can do the same at........
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f162/jcassity_bucket/
actually, you should start your own thread with a subject line that keys on the problem. that way when others do searches, they find your topic and leassons learned more easily.
For Birdman:
Let me chime in... One time I left a critical ground loose which is attached to the lower subframe of the dash at the bottom rear of the centerstack opening. It caused similar problems for me. Several dash grounds are located here. My original radio had this large ground wire attached to the nut on the back of the radio. The other end was attached to a nut on the dash subframe where other grounds junctioned.
It's just a place to look if you overlooked that possibility. Usually if one of these grounds are loose, current will either back feed and ground through other circuits or not find a ground at all causing the sorts of problems you are having. And since it did not happen until you removed the original radio and installed the new one then I would bet that a loose or missing ground is the culprit.
More possibilities...
Sometimes when the dash does not light up and the right turn signal does not flash there could be an exterior taillamp or front parking lamp bulb that is not seated correctly in the socket causing a short between the dual filament contacts. This will cause a right turn signal lamp front and rear not to flash. The dash of course lights up with the parking lamp circuit. It just may be a freak coincidence that one of the bulbs decided to unseat and turn in the socket. The reason I believe it could be a loose bulb is that the turn signal does not work on the right side. All the wiring harness for the taillamps runs along the left side of the car.
Also, the clock wiring harness and trunk release wiring run in the harness behind the radio. A pinch or short is possible but also these wiring harnesses are short to their destinations and are easy to pull the wiring connectors loose. These items (if it is a digital clock) run off of 12V keyed with the ignition. That would be the common denominator for the clock and trunk release not to work. Of course check the fuses on that curcuit.
The other common denominator for the dash lights and the clock is the red/blue dash illumination wire. For the clock it serves to dim the digital readout when the dash lights are turned on. This red/blue wire is common to the parking lamp circuit as well when you turn the headlamp switch on which may support the theory that a bulb may be unseated and twisted the wrong way in an exterior lamp socket.
I wish I could help in person as I believe I could have it remedied in no time through checking all possibilities... It's much harder to diagnose with words than it is for me to actually be doing this with actions.
more likely on the transmission hump just in back of the center of all the stuff. stud is there were a bunch of grounds come to that point.
i did'nt it read past Erics post..
like Eric said it sounds like you have a pinched wire somewhere when you reinstalled the dash..
look at everything in great detail. feel all the wires to see if any of the sheeting is torn and make sure all the wires move freely from the dash
look everywhere the thing you think is most likely not you problem could be you problem..
sorry about the real late post
Nick