Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 27, 2009, 09:40:55 PM
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 27, 2009, 09:40:55 PM
Hey guys. Searching through all the spring-related threads, I've found myself in spring overload. here.
Since I'm swapping a 5.0 into my TC, I'm left wondering what to do. Some of the threads I saw had pics of Birds/Cats with 5.0's in them and new TC springs up front. Some of these cars sat really low in the front (too low to clear speed bumps, or driveway apr0ns), while others didn't sit very low at all. They looked to bne sittin at a factory height.
Some cars had new Sport springs up front and looked like their fronts were on jack stands., while other cars with Sport springs up front looked to be sitting at about factory height. WTF????
I want the Blackbird's nose to sit at what looks like a factory height. I don't want to have to worry about my longtubes dragging over speed bumps, or any other like that. Having said that, I don't want it to be too high up front either and look like a monster truck.
Can anyone make heads, or tails of this for me?
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on October 27, 2009, 09:54:41 PM
With the SN-95 springs the Sport sits "right",and doesn't come close to dragging anything.Even over some of the larger speed bumps around our mall.I am very pleased with them,the ride quality is very good,good around the corners,SUPER cheap at the boneyard (O.K.,they were free),the V-6 and V-8 SN-95 springs are the same,and I have them at all 4 corners.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: V8Demon on October 27, 2009, 10:08:15 PM
These 2 links may be of some use to give you an idea of spring rates, load ratings, and heights
You can cross reference part#'s using the 2 too see the specification differences
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on October 27, 2009, 10:26:17 PM
If you use aluminum heads and the springs are in good shape, no reason the orig TCs should not work... My TC has stock shocks, struts and springs all round, sets approx 3/4" lower in front than with the half motor... I'm too happy with it to go messin around with other springs...
(http://mysite.verizon.net/turbocoupe50/tc04.jpg)
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 1986Élan on October 27, 2009, 10:33:28 PM
hey vinnie your car before the sn95 springs looked jacked up and after it looks sitting right but, Chuck W wich is also using those springs seems to be riding pretty much lower How is that,
also you stated that v6 and v8 sn95 springs were the same how is that and from what year to what year
thanx Vin
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 28, 2009, 12:24:40 AM
That's what I've noticed. It seems like one guy will use SN95's and have a totally different ride height from another guy with the same car and springs. I'm just not sure what to think.
I'm running iron heads Tom, so I'd say that would rule out TC springs up front.
I had seen those charts Demon (thanks for trying to help though Buddy). I just didn't know what look I'd get with the various springs listed on it. I guess I'll have to use the figures on those charts to make an educated guess on which springs will give me the look I'm after.
Quote from: 1986Élan;296672
hey vinnie your car before the sn95 springs looked jacked up and after it looks sitting right but, Chuck W wich is also using those springs seems to be riding pretty much lower How is that,
also you stated that v6 and v8 sn95 springs were the same how is that and from what year to what year
thanx Vin
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on October 28, 2009, 07:48:05 AM
The height of the rear of my Sport will more than likely get a little lower with Mustang shocks.As I said,I keep the rear up just a little in case I'm hauling anything heavy in the trunk so the car doesn't squat.The fact that a lot of heavy parts are off of the car may make a small difference.The smog and a/c equipment are gone (a/c making a comeback soon),the old cast iron manifolds are gone.Plus,the springs and struts are in excellent shape,which,may keep the car up in front like it belongs.I think KingCars had the same look as my car after using the SN-95 springs.Not much difference at all between the two.I've also got SN-95 front control arms.Now,this is only what I've heard,don't take it for fact,but I HEARD that the arms are the same as the '88 Bird's control arms which I do know to be true,BUT,that the pockets for the springs are slightly deeper.....which would lower the car somewhat.Again,I read that somewhere and don't know that to be true.I think if you use the same SN-95 springs,you would be pleased.Not high,and not so low you can't take a speed bump without coming to a near stop.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 28, 2009, 08:06:46 PM
That's good info to have Vinnie. I've got plenty of time to figure out what direction I want to go in. After reading what you had to say about the SN95 springs, I just might use them.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on October 28, 2009, 09:37:17 PM
That's right you will !!!!!!! LOL.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: FLSTCI71 on October 29, 2009, 02:39:00 PM
I don't know if this will help, but I snapped a pic of my son's "fleet".
The 87 TC on the left is bone stock. It is a loaded 90K car. It has every possible option except the A4LD, it's got a T5 in in. The original ride control shocks have been replaced with non-ride control shocks and the front springs are, to the best of my knowledge, the original factory units.
The center 87 TC has a 5.0 with fuel injection, iron heads, a Vortech blower and a V8 T5 in it. It's got about 140K on the clock. As far as I can tell, it still has the original ride control shocks and original factory springs.
The right hand 88 TC is also bone stock, like the LH bird, and it also has every option except the automatic. It's another 5-speed car. It has at least 230K on it. I am not sure about the shocks, but I think the springs are original.
I don't know if that helps or not. If it was me, I would start with the original TC setup and go from there. My guess is it will be fine.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 29, 2009, 11:14:14 PM
Wow! Your 5.0 Bird sits as high, or higher in the front than the 4cylinder Birds. That's strange. Thanks for that pic.
Quote from: FLSTCI71;296894
I don't know if this will help, but I snapped a pic of my son's "fleet".
The 87 TC on the left is bone stock. It is a loaded 90K car. It has every possible option except the A4LD, it's got a T5 in in. The original ride control shocks have been replaced with non-ride control shocks and the front springs are, to the best of my knowledge, the original factory units.
The center 87 TC has a 5.0 with fuel injection, iron heads, a Vortech blower and a V8 T5 in it. It's got about 140K on the clock. As far as I can tell, it still has the original ride control shocks and original factory springs.
The right hand 88 TC is also bone stock, like the LH bird, and it also has every option except the automatic. It's another 5-speed car. It has at least 230K on it. I am not sure about the shocks, but I think the springs are original.
I don't know if that helps or not. If it was me, I would start with the original TC setup and go from there. My guess is it will be fine.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: FLSTCI71 on October 29, 2009, 11:57:34 PM
Quote from: 88 Blackbird 5.0;296947
Wow! Your 5.0 Bird sits as high, or higher in the front than the 4cylinder Birds. That's strange. Thanks for that pic.
I know, and it seems to sit higher in the rear too, which I thought was really weird. I'll have to try to verify all of the front stuff is still factory because that doesn't make sense to me. I'll let you know what I find out.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: V8Demon on October 30, 2009, 07:49:02 AM
A fully dressed iron head 5.0 weighs about the same as a 2.3T. TC's generally have more options. I'm sure the PRC equipment adds some weight.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: FLSTCI71 on October 31, 2009, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;296977
A fully dressed iron head 5.0 weighs about the same as a 2.3T. TC's generally have more options. I'm sure the PRC equipment adds some weight.
I would think a fully dressed iron head 5.0 with a blower would weigh more than a 2.3 with a turbo. I guess I don't know for sure. Also, all three birds are 5-speed 87/88 Turbo Coupes. The outer two are stock and the center one has the 5.0 in it. It was a Turbo Coupe from the factory and when we bought it from the junkyard just before it got crushed. We installed the 5.0, but the suspension is all factory TC.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: dominator on October 31, 2009, 08:30:50 AM
My TC had an iron headed 5.0L in it at one point(now aluminum heads) and the front factory springs sit perfect. It was actually a little high to be honest and my springs where actually broken on the lowest coil. If i'm not mistaken,i think the factory TC springs had the highest pound per square inch rating of all 3 engines.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: Thunder Chicken on October 31, 2009, 02:58:27 PM
I had TC springs on my 5.0 'Bird and the one on the passenger side broke before I ever got to drive it. Just moving it around in my flat driveway, it broke under the weight of the 5.0/AOD. Now I've got SN95 Mach 1 springs in it on all for corners (had to use adjustable CHE rear control arms with the Mach 1 springs, otherwise the rear would sit on the ground), and it should be a bit lighter with the T5. I love how it sits now...
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: Beau on October 31, 2009, 05:12:54 PM
This should be a sticky.
I (stupidly, dare I say?) swapped TC springs in mine, getting readyto stick in the iron head 5.0 and T5....after seeing this, afraid it will be too low for my liking. The again, I've taken out the ac stuff, smog, about 40-50 pounds of sound deadener from the interior, power seat tracks...that sorta stuff, otherwise, still fully loaded with all options.
I really like the stance on on Vin's car, and Carm's is good, too, but maybe just a hair too low, I live in the country, gravel roads are bad year-round here... With that said, I think I'll be looking for SN-95 springs for mine too. One question though, with SN-95 springs, should I use the CHE adjustable rear arms?
PS, did I mention sticky;) :bowdown:
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: Thunder Chicken on October 31, 2009, 07:10:18 PM
I've got the Mach 1 springs (or Bullitt, I forget which and can't be bothered looking back through the posts to see which I bought from a board member), which are a bit lower than the GT springs when installed in a Mustang. The Mach/Bullitt rear springs I've got are WAY shorter than stock springs, by about 3", and adjustable rears are a MUST. Apparently this is not the case with GT springs, only Mach or Bullitt. I think Chuck's got SN95 springs on the rear of his car...
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on October 31, 2009, 07:15:34 PM
A 2.3T weighs around 380lbs... A IRON headed & intake 302 470lbs(not sure if that included exhaust manifolds)... This was for a late 60s 302, 5.0 blocks have less meat(why they'll crack at high HP) & if I remember correctly only weigh 126lbs, while the older blocks were around 145... With aluminum heads, intake and tube headers, weight will be close to one another...
BTW a set of iron heads weigh approx 55lb more per set than the aluminum heads...
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 31, 2009, 09:12:53 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;297062
I had TC springs on my 5.0 'Bird and the one on the passenger side broke before I ever got to drive it. Just moving it around in my flat driveway, it broke under the weight of the 5.0/AOD. Now I've got SN95 Mach 1 springs in it on all for corners (had to use adjustable CHE rear control arms with the Mach 1 springs, otherwise the rear would sit on the ground), and it should be a bit lighter with the T5. I love how it sits now...
That's a neat look, but that would be too low for me. I'm running long tubes and think they would drag over a lot of the driveways and speed bumps around here. I have to have a higher stance than that.
Nice ride though!!
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 31, 2009, 09:14:45 PM
Wow! That's interesting information. After looking at all these options, maybe I'll just stick with stock TC springs. Tom as always made some good points about the weights of 2.3T's, compared to 5.0 engines.
Quote from: dominator;297051
My TC had an iron headed 5.0L in it at one point(now aluminum heads) and the front factory springs sit perfect. It was actually a little high to be honest and my springs where actually broken on the lowest coil. If i'm not mistaken,i think the factory TC springs had the highest pound per square inch rating of all 3 engines.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on October 31, 2009, 09:32:15 PM
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: FLSTCI71 on October 31, 2009, 09:45:39 PM
Vinnie, do you have a side shot with your wheels straight, so we can see the clearances? I am sure you would hate to post a pic of your car, but consider it a favor to us. lol.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on October 31, 2009, 09:52:54 PM
Here's the only side view I have.And,you are correct,I hate to post them,I only do it to help others....because I'm awesome that way.LOL. It was with the 17x9 Cobra R wheels.......
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: FLSTCI71 on October 31, 2009, 09:57:42 PM
Thanks! This is strictly my opinion, but I think that sits pretty much perfect. I like the gaps both in the front and in the rear. That is a very nice stance.
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on October 31, 2009, 10:03:14 PM
I like it as well.It turned out how I hoped it would (not much else does.LOL).I wanted lower,but not LOW,and I wanted it to be very functional.As I've stated before,I don't want to have to worry every time I cross a speed bump,or train track,or whatever.It also corners very well and stays pretty flat for a big girl (well,she's not BIG,just nice and curvy....just the way I like it !!!).
Title: I'll tell you what Vinnie
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on October 31, 2009, 11:34:21 PM
That is one sweet ride you,ve got there!
Title: Spring Overload
Post by: vinnietbird on November 01, 2009, 06:33:36 PM
Thanks.I like it.LOL.It has come a looooong way from the salvage yard days.
Title: Update
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on November 13, 2009, 01:24:45 AM
As most of you know by now, I swapped a 5.0 and AOD into the Blackbird a few days ago. Before I put it up on stands, I took a close look at it's stance with the weight of the engine and tranny on the front springs. The stance was perfect in my opinion. I'm gonna roll with it just the way it is.
I thought it would sit lower than it did. Tom, as always, you were spot-on with what you said about TC springs and 5.0's in our cars.