I have access to a 1998 Explorer 5.0 (the "P" engine).If I get it,I understand that the "P" heads require either new headers,or,new plug wire boots.Also,the EGR is external on these engines.I haven't really got into the details of what it would take to install it in the Sport.Here's what I would swap from my engine...
-E303 cam (maybe the H.O cam....I'm unsure)
-BBK headers
-'96 Explorer intake (although it has internal EGR (I've got it blocked anyway)
-front timing cover and all accessories
-valve covers
-distributor
-oil pan and oil pickup
-and I'll keep the stock rockers on the Explorer engine and sell my rollers to buy 1.7 roller rockers).
I THINK I'll need the following....
-oil filter adapter (from Ford...cheap)
-spark plug boots or "P" headers (probably the plug wires will be swapped unless I can find cheap headers)
The questions.....
-What effects with a "no internal EGR" might there be?
-What else would I need?
-Am I missing anything?
I figure I can sell some of the parts from the engine....intake,injectors (probably go as a set),65mm throttlebody.
I'll probably pick the engine up Thursday morning bright and early.Pics and details at that time.
Feel I read this somewhere before. LOL
I had to do some thinking........So............I thought...............and for less than the cost of new Ford Racing valve covers,I can get the engine from intake plate to oil pan,and everything up front.
That was very good thinking. I would grab it if it was me.
I figure if I don't get it now,I may not get another chance.It's a 30,xxx mile engine.
Yes, yes, by all means, buy this engine. Polish it all up. Have a raffle.
"Adjust" the results so that I'm the winner of said raffle. Be there next weekend to claim my prize! ;)
Seriously, I'd get it....you'll kick yourself later if you don't. :D
I answered your questions in bold ;)
Freeek.....I will eventually be selling the Sport's current H.O engine for whatever I can get.Not this one.LOL
Thunderjet,I heard that the 19# injectors are fine with the fuel pressure turned up a bit,but,eventually,24's may just be a good thing to do.I have 6 of them,I just need two more and a Mas Air sensor.As with everything on the Sport,it's all about "budget".I have a small list already made....
-Premium valve seals
-new high performance valve springs
-all new gaskets
-1.7 roller rockers
and a few other little things.Most all I need in big parts will come from the Sport's current 5.0.I'll sell the intake and whatever else I can to help pay for it all.It'll take some time.No money can come from my paycheck.I'll be taking pics of everything.
As far as the headers,if I can find an inexpensive pair of FMS headers that will work great with the "P" heads,I'll grab them and sell the BBKs.If not,the BBKs will stay on and I'll custom fit some plug wires with a wire retainer down the side of the valve cover to keep the wires safe. Since I'm re-using my current intake,EGR is a non-issue then.I suppose it doesn't matter,it's not hooked up as it is,but probably will be when the replacement engine is installed. I still have to tear the top end off once it gets in the garage and do a lot of cleaning and such.I'll have the heads mildly ported by a friend in the next town who's a machinist.Time isn't an issue,so as I always preach around here,one piece at a time.The valve springs are going to cost more than the entire engine does.....unless I can find a set on Ebay or the Corral.We'll see what happens.
Thanks a lot for the info.
I'm unsure which cam I'll end up using,the H.O cam or the E303.There is no definitive answer,so,I'm still trying to decide.I suppose I have time to think about it.
If you want to run out of fuel injector at 5k rpm's, use the 19's. My 19's are at 99% duty cycle around 4500 and I can't think or any reason why other than the lower had some light porting done by someone at some point. This is with it shooting for a 11.8:1 ratio though so I figure 5k is about where it starts to lean out. I still haven't mounted my wideband so take these numbers lightly but 99% DC is not a safe area to be playing.
I'd recommend 24's also, along with a 70-75mm mass air sensor and 65-70mm throttle body. The 1.7 RR's won't help much at all on stock P heads no matter the cam - there isn't much to gain from .400 to .500 lift. Yes you will want more valve spring although the stock ones should be good with a HO cam and moderate lift.
A guy was selling some of those headers for $60 locally on craigslist in the past - I was tempted to pick them up just for the hell of it although I already had some. Look around - you can find a good deal. I know you will though as it's what you do best ;)
I would go with a H.O. cam, or go with a custom. If you are going to get the valves replaces, you should have them machined for dual springs. That way if a spring breaks, you will have a spring left to stop the valve from dropping and destroying your newish engine.
I have heard very bad things about the e-cam. There is a guy on another board that measures the actual cam lobes and degreeing on all the cams he puts in customer cars. He has found over 13 setups ordering the same cam from the same place, on the same day. I have seen dyno sheets go up by only 3-5 hp in the top end with a ecam, and lost alot of low end. After swapping back in the H.O. cam, one guy gained .3 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
Go for it, but I'm staying out of it on how you should build it.
Hey,thanks guys.I'll probably go with the 24# injectors later on.I already have the larger Mass Air meter and 65mm throttlebody.
Kitz,I'm always interested in your ideas.PM me if you have anything to pass along.I'm still into the idea and info gathering phase of the whole project.Time is not a factor.
Haystack....I would like the double valve springs,but,it'll come down to budget.When it comes time to buy the springs,we'll see what fits into the budget.Too early to tell.As most of you know,I don't use money from my paycheck,so,I have to get creative and really search for the best deals.Ebay and are are TIGHT.I'll pick the engine up Thursday morning and remove the heads and intake and then go from there.
Sorry, I am not trying to pretend to be any engine builder or anything like that. You could go with whatever cam you want, that is just what I would do. Sorry if I came acrossed that way.
No worries Haystack.I didn't take what you said any other way than trying to to help.I'll listen to any advice about the project.Some I may be able to use,some I may not.It's too early in to it to make any solid decisions.As far as the cam goes.I'd love to have a custom cam,and maybe before it's over,I can.I have a good friend who had one made for his application.Less than $300.00. I have to get on the ball and sell some parts to make that happen.Thanks.
I've got GT40Ps on my car, with 1.7RRs. I'm using a set of BBK Shorty headers. Same typical set a lot of 5.0 owners use, Only problem is you need a right angle boot on the #7 cylinder, and that plug needs to be installed before the header gets bolted on, otherwise you won't get a tool in there. Every other cylinder should be no problem at all. I also run the stock HO cam and have completely eliminated the EGR and Smog. I've got one little hickup that randomly shows its face but its nothing to complain about, generally the car runs great. I believe my problem comes from a stock ECU trying to run a motor thats drastically changed. (Speed Density that is). I haven't found a Mass Air ECU yet. I'm also running 24# injectors, Its diffenently a wise choice for the combo. All in all, my car runs great and I'm running basically what you have described. Good luck.
Are you putting the GT40Ps on the block you have now with the flat tops? You probably will have some piston to valve issues if you run the GT40Ps and an E303 with the flat tops as the GT40Ps have bigger intake valves.
I'm buying the entire engine.
I have Mass Air,so,I shouldn't have any issues with it at all.
I'll take any comments.Whether it's "making sure" stuff,hints and tips,whatever.I appreciate it all.
Since you have time to build the engine right (you have a running T-bird ;)) I suggest saving your money up and doing it right. Rebuild the lower end and heads with quality components, not cheap stuff. For a cam contact Jay here: http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/ I wish I did when I built my engine. He can hook you up with a matched cam, lifters, springs, and timing chain. Yes it will cost more than it would from ebay or Summit Racing but you get top quality parts. It's cheaper to buy something once than twice ;)
The bottom end....short block....is in great shape.Only 30,xxx miles on it.No rebuild for it.The heads will get a mild posting,valve job,new valve seals and springs.When I install the heads back on to the block,I'll install my 1.6 roller rockers more than likely and my E303.That's as of this thread.Things can change over time.I'm taking it one step at a time.No rush.
Here's a pic of my explorer long block when I first bought the car.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/thundr306/parts%20for%20sale/DSC00857.jpg)
Was it a "P" engine?
It may have been said but I didn't see it..The 96/97 Explorer 302 had the internal EGR intake. 98-2000 had the ext.
You could probly just get a 96/97 intake and be fine with the same heads.
He's already got an Explorer intake on his current engine that can be used. The heads are all drilled for EGR as far as I know. Mine (gt40p's from I think 2000?) has functional EGR.
Yep,I'm using the '96 Explorer intake on the replacement engine.....when the time comes.
Due to horrible weather,the engine has been postponed until Monday.Oh well,I can't use it right now anyway.
Good news,going to get it right now.
Get me one too, while you're out.
I picked up the engine,it's in the garage on the stand waiting for me.A friend at Autozone is getting my some really good valve springs through a company he does business with (he's the commercial manager).My cost after discounts anf the money he owes me should be about $20.00....not too bad.I'll probably start the basic tear down tomorrow after work.I'm just glad I got it here..
Jerry,I wish you were closer.The yard just brought in another '98 Explorer and offered me the engine,but I didn't have the funds.He wants $450.00 for it.Not bad for a low mileage GT40 P engine that is complete from top to bottom,harnesses and all..
We can freight ship it to my neighbors business. He has a fork lift.
Kitz shipped the TC rear to me that way.
It only takes money.Have you looked for any out there?I've seen a few on Ebay as well.I saw an Explorer short block for cheap today.I'll start breaking my engine down in a dew days.I have garage cleaning to do.Tomorrow we're shopping for Gayle.She's changing the living room and dining room.New paint,fixtures,pictures,etc.It's her "thang".
what pistons do the explorer engines have in them? thinking about picking one up for the bottom end and selling the heads and intake to a friend. $50-100 in a low mileage bottom end (after selling heads) doesnt seem to bad as long as the bottom end will hold up to my power goals of around 400hp at the crank.
The pistons aren't forged like my H.O engine,but for me,it'll be fine.
HEY !!!! Does anyone know for sure whether or not the Explorer double sump oil pan will fit our cars,and will the oil filter housing/oil cooler fit as well?
I live in Buffalo where everything has over 100,000 miles and costs $600-& 800.
And don't forget about the rust. Motors rust here too.
been checking craigslist, but nothing good as of tues.. I can score a zillion 4.0s though.
I'm still looking for some Explorer heads again. Last deal fell through.
got any Vin? I may post it in the wanted section soon.
I dunno about the pan, I'd err on the side of caution and say no, but....
Do you need a 5.0 pan? I can pull one off my SO engine for ya. It's not perfect, but doesn't leak oil.
If I only had 450 bucks....heck, I already have an engine, Nicole would shoot me if I bought another lol
Jerry...you need that engine ;)
I know the pan won't fit but I'm not sure on the oil cooler. If you want an oil cooler I wouldn't re-use the stock one as you have no idea what's been in it. Just get a new one. They are cheap and above all clean on the inside, where it counts. ;)
The oil cooler isn't like the little radiator looking one,it's between the oil filter and housing.As far as the oil pan,no big deal.To the s pile it'll go.
Vinnie, you should be able to get rid of the adapter and just mount the filter. If you want to.
I may just do that.I saw the cooler on there and thought "Hmmmmmmm".LOL.
Would your headers clear it anyway?
Oh yeah,they would clear it easy.I'll try to get some pics up this evening.
I still have to take pics.It's been super busy lately at work,then home.I managed to find the time to pull off all of the brackets,intake,harnesses,exhaust manifolds and valve covers.The valve covers look brand new inside,and the heads (under the valve covers) don't even show any sign of grime,burnt oil,scale,or anything.The outside of the block is dirty,but no oil or any signs of leaking anywhere.I'll probably start cleaning a little tomorrow morning and pull the oil pan.The oil cooler is a pretty neat piece,but going away.I ordered the oil filter adapter for the engine and it should be here this week.When the valve springs get here,I'll take the heads down for porting,,polishing,5 angle valve job and an overall checkup.Slowly but surely it'll come together.I have a whole list of little things I need from gaskets to spark plugs.I'm trying to also decide what color to paint the engine.Blue or gray?Probably Blue.Something about Ford Blue that just feels "right,although our cars never saw that color on our engines.
what kind of power would an explorer engine make with a decent cam and the ports cleaned up and gasket matched? explorer intake and all.
I've seen 290 on the Corral with nothing done to the heads except new springs,some bolt ons,and an H.O cam.I'll probably go ahead and let the machine shop port and polish,5 angle valve job,and I'll tend to the rest.I'm still unsure what cam I'm going to use.E303 or another kind (custom made or Trick Flow Stage 1).
crank or rear wheel?
According to my reading,the rear wheels.Now,that's someone else's remarks on their engines.I have no idea personally.I want good dependable performance,the best gas mileage I can get,and hopefully the engine will also be good looking.LOL.Overall,just a good all around engine.We'll see what happens over time.No hurry.Just doing what I can when I can.I'm still looking for some parts.I'll find them eventually.
wonder what an explorer engine would make with a 70mm tb, 75mm MAF, 30lbs injectors, ported intake, cleaned up heads, e or f cam, 1 5/8" headers w/ 2.5" h-pipe and flowmasters...
now i'm curious as i'm picking up a mustang for a DD and explorer 5.0's are pretty easy to come by around here.
With that combo,I'd think 30# injectors would be too much.I'll stick with the 73mm mass air,65mm t-body,and 19# injectors,although,when I find them,I'll probably upgrade to 24# injectors sometime in the spring.....unless I can find those parts sooner for cheap or free.....which does happen on occasion.
yah i thought about that after i posted. BUT, 30# injectors would allow for more upgrades in the future without having to recalibrate the MAF and cant you just turn the fuel pressure down when you have larger injectors in to give less fuel?
It's not a good idea to tune that way. The car will run py when you mess with the fuel pressure. Just run the proper size injector for your combo. If you upgrade parts and need more injector then go up at that time.
Why would you not "calibrate" a MAF to the injectors? If you don't no matter what you do to the fuel pressure it will run like ass.
shiznit don't work that way, Thats why we have so many ?? about what does work.
Sorry Vinnie, Some of these guy's need to learn what works.
Hey,feel free to get in the middle.We all have to learn.Better to hear the truth here than from some stranger in the streets.LOL.
what i meant is that if you had 24lbs injectors with the MAF set up for 24lbs injectors and then changed the combo and needed 30lbs injectors you would have to recalibrate the MAF for the 30lbs injectors. i'm not as stupid as people on this website have tried to make me out to be....
i have read that you could lower the FP to keep the injectors from being close to their maximum flow which makes them run more consistant. just what i had read, makes sense to me....
just like people say that a SD car will not idle with a cam in it. mine idles perfect.
you cannot believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet, especially from people who think they know everything about everything. they will see a question on a message board and then start searching the internet to try making themselves look smart. the person who said what i was talking about may have done just that, which is why i asked about it. there seem to be people on here who are like myself and actually do their own work and know what they are talking about when they answer someones question. it cracks me up when you see someone spouting off about how they know everything or can do ANYTHING to their cars, then you look at their profile and they are 15-17 and the closest they have come to working on a car is MAYBE put a set of spark plugs in or changed an air filter. They usually stop when you ask them a trick question and bust them in a lie.
I just read in another thread that the EEC will try to compensate for the change in fuel pressure. The computer also meters how much fuel to put into the motor by the stock 40PSI of the stock regulator.
Around here, people don't like it when you call bullshiznit when they are trying to help. You have a long way to go still. Just because you have done things to your car dosen't mean anyone else here hasn't. Alot of folks here have more experiance and have tried all the things that they do in the magazines, and know they do, or don't work. You can make almost any cam idle if your idle is set high enough. Is yours at the stock 600RPM in gear?
I'm not a know it all by any stretch, but it bothers me that you would come in here and say that nobody know anything and act like your tough because you have swapped a cam. You also asked help from the same people when you did it.
Let's just get back to subject and no arguing.I'm trying to figure out what the push rod situation will be once I get the cam.I'm going with V8Demon's Trick Flow cam and will sell my E303 and go from there.I guess I can wonder about push rods all I want,but won't make a difference until I get the cam and springs installed.As far as Mas Air and injectors.I'll keep the 19's and 73mm meter until I find a C&L meter and sensor (for 24's) then install them eventually.No rush.For what I will have,I think 19's will work,but I am not sure of their limitations.
please re-read my post. i said NOTHING about the people on this website except that most seem to know what they are talking about when they answer a question. it idles at about 750 in gear, 850 in park/nuetral, which is about as low as any cammed 5.0 i have seen. i never acted "tough" because i have a cam. i simply said that you cannot believe everything that is said on the internet because my car runs perfect with the cam. no hesitation, no driveability problems, none of the problems that they say come along with a cam in a speed density car. then again my car has proven to be a freak and do things that other cars just like it will not do.
anyways, back to the subject at hand because i am also interested in the same setup for the stang i'm picking up.
stock lenght should be fine it's not a regrind
Measure the pushrod, ie get a push rod length checker. It's the best way to tell if you need a different size push rod ;)
I'll check them when I get the heads finished and the cam gets here.That'll take a few weeks I'm sure before I get the heads done.I have to come up with $250.00 for that.More parts are gonna have to be sold apparently.
Vinnie, you still have pedestal rockers right?
Yes Sir.Why,do you need my roller rockers?
No, My motor is done. But what you got?,There's always the black cat.
Unless you are shaving the heads you got there should not be a problem with the pushrods. You may need a shim kit like I told you when you did the E cam.
I do have shims under the rockers.I didn't want the heads shaved,but they did it anyway.I'll be selling my 1.6 roller rockers when it's time to swap engines........maybe.LOL.I can't ever make up my mind until the last minute......sometimes.
Alright,I got the cam today.It'll be installed tomorrow after work,then,I have to get the front cover clean and bead blasted (and clear coat).I also have to paint the oil pan and block before the pretty aluminum is installed.All I need now are a few gaskets,seals,and the heads done.I'll call the machine shop tomorrow and make plans from there.
I'd like to share a few things with you Vinnie. You mentioned that you're buying new valve springs for your "P" heads. If you already know any of what I'm about to tell you, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, or anything. I just want to make sure that you do know the information I'm about to share with you.
The factory exhaust springs on your "P" heads are shorter than the intake springs. The spring locator area under where the exhaust springs sit is about .100" higher than the spring locator area of the heads where the intake springs sit. If you buy a conventional valve spring/retainer/locks set for these heads, they won't work without machining down the higher exhaust locater areas to the same height as the intakes, or a song and dance.
To compensate for this funny set-up, Ford used exhaust springs that were shorter in height on these heads, so the seat pressure on the exhaust valves would match the intake valve's seat pressure. If you want to use normal valve springs, locks and retainers without having to machine the heads, there is a way you can do it. If you shim the intake springs up to an installed height of 1.750" and use +.050" locks on the exhaust springs (giving them an installed height of 1.750" too), you'll have even seat pressure across the board. Your seat pressure will just be a little higher than 120#.
Trick Flow calls for an installed height of 1.800" and a seat pressure of 120# on the spec card for their Stage 1 cams. I think the best way to do it, would be to buy a set of springs/retainers/locks that are designed to be used on "P" heads. That's what I did for my engine. There are (or I should say "were") 3 different brands of springs sets like that for "P" heads. Crane used to make a set for "P" heads before they went out of business, Ford Motorsport offered a set (identical to the Crane set, because Crane made them for FMS) and Trick Flow still makes a set. After a lot of research, I elected to stay away from the Trick Flow springs. They don't have as much seat pressure as the Crane springs and the retainers are allegedly quality.
I don't know how the TFS spring set allows you to come up with a 1.800" installed height on the exhaust springs to match the install height of the intakes. I can tell you though, that the Crane/Motorsport sets use +.050" retainers and +.050" locks on the exhaust side to raise them to the same height as the intakes. If you get them, you'll see that half of the retainers have a dish (exhaust retainers) and half of them don't (obviously intake).
Now that Crane has reopened, they claim they'll be making these spring sets again soon, but they can't say when (a guy at Crane told me this). Not wanting to wait for an indefinite period of time, I put a WTB notice up in the classified forums over at a very popular Mustang forum. It wasn't long before A guy who was selling a Motorsport set contacted me and I bought his. Problem solved.
I hope I caught you before you bought the wrong set Vinnie. If you have any questions about any of this, be sure to let me know. So that you know, it seems like the FMS sets are easier to find than the Crane sets. If you decide to look for a FMS set, the part#'s are... M-6514-B50 (FMS retainers) and M-6513-A50 (springs). You can buy +.050" locks anywhere.
I hope this info helped you.
FYI -- Here's Vinnie's spring specs
And the locks
And the retainers
I put just over 9K miles on that stuff. Looked absolutely perfect when I pulled it off....
I too have heard about the rumors of retainer quality as well as the cam core. After knowing what I've seen with my own eyes; I don't believe it. For a street car; it's a non-issue IMHO. If you're running 7200 RPM all the time -- that's a little different, but those heads and cam aren't gonna breathe that high anyhow.
Which wouldn't be a bad thing IMHO. Should be right around 145 pounds....
Also
DO NOT FORGET THE LIGHTWEIGHT SPRINGS THAT ARE MADE FOR THIS PROCESS Using your stock springs will make your reading for the length low.... ;)
You cant believe everything you read.
The MAF and injectors must match unless you are able to tune the EEC properly. There is no "recalibrating" a MAF unless you have a band-aid device or you have an aftermarket MAF that uses tubes.
As far as lowering fuel pressure for consistency, that's way off in left field. Injectors are rated at a certain flow at a certain PSI. If you go above or below that range, the only thing you do is effect the spray pattern and the amount of fuel that passes through. Tuning with a fuel pressure regulator is another band-aid for not having the proper size injectors or tune.
Tuning via regulator CAN be effective provided you have an idea of what you are doing and enough pump to feed the injectors at higher pressure. That being said, I would not go over 55 PSI on an injector. Is running a 24 pound injector @ 40 PSI better than a 19 @ 60 PSI?
Absolutely.
It's weird. This and another forum seem to be revisiting a lot of touched-upon topics as of late. Not a bad thing and I'm not bitching about it. Just weird how it's both sites......Perhaps the time of year??
I will eventually,as funds come available,get a Cobra ECM,Mass Air sensor and 24# injectors (do it as a matching set,and I should be set up pretty good).I'm hoping to be pushing the limits for the 19# injectors.What is their limit by the way?I was thinking 285-300 HP for some reason.Anyone?
My 19's max out at 4500-5000 iirc with the stock A9P tune (which shoots for 11.5:1 A/F). This is a gt40p headed engine with the '89 HO Cam. Should be just over 300fwhp and from everything I've read. At max duty cycle, I'd think lower 300's would be possible with a tune. I don't like running my 19's at 99% duty cycle though...
My lower gt40 intake appears to have had some light porting done by someone in the past. Binary Editor keeps calculating/guessing that I'm around 320-330hp at the crank on every datalog. I haven't dyno'd it yet as it's a waste of money since my under hood plans are not yet complete.
Edit:
Here is a sample area of a datalog when the fuel injectors are being told to go all out. You can base your plans on this - your setup should flow a little more. My transmission begins to shift at 5k so I don't have datalogs going higher. While I didn't have the wideband hooked up, the standard o2's always read rich at WOT.
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/DutyCycleLog.png)
I'm stuck with 19's for now.It'll be fine until I gather the funds or find a wealthy sponsor.......yeah,right.LOL.I'll start gathering what I can when I can.The money I can make selling my computer,Mass Air meter/sensor/injectors will help get some money back once the swap is done (to 24's).It won't get all my money back,but,every little bit helps.
I'm sure you already knew you need more than 19's. 24's would get you to 80% duty cycle with the same power output. Because nobody recommends using it over 80, especially as the fuel injectors age and their capacity/efficiency drops, 24's may not be enough if you plan on having closer to 400hp at the crank. At this point, I'd be looking at 30's (although a bit overkill). 24's would work but you'd be maxing them out. Decide your final goal and buy parts once.
I have no idea what you'll be making with that combo though. The heads are what will really limit the combo. A lot depends on the porting/cleanup that you have being done but I doubt it'll free up much for the P's design. I think it's safe to estimate you'll be seeing around or just over 350hp, giving you a 15% safety margin with 24lb injectors.
I'll go with 24's and probably be fine.99% of all my driving is just to work,picking up my little man from school,then home.For the once in a great while tires killing,I think they'll do.LOL.
As far as the heads,when i pick them up,I'll post the numbers here for everyone to judge for themselves.I'm hoping for good things.
I have a set of 24s sitting in the garage. I haven't bought a MAF so I can put them on because my trans is fubar and I'm going to have it rebuilt in the spring. I figure:
1. If I put on the 24s before the trans I couldn't tell how well they work cause then I'd blow up the trans.
2. I can't go full throttle with the trans now anyways as it slips:hick:
Besides my AOD shifts at 4800 rpm so I'm still at about 99% duty cycle so I've got some room :rollin:
I'm hitting the boneyard tomorrow morning.I may find some 24's there.Sometimes they have some taurus's there with the Duratech engine.I'll need two of those cars though.
24's can also be found in some BMW's....my friends 94 325is came with them
Not many of those in the yards around here.