I was rebuilding my distributor and messing around with the thermostat in my 88 XR-7 5.0 (stock) and I realized I forgot to mark the position..some time has passed and not sure where it should be...
..Any ideas on how to make sure I'm on the correct gear tooth or just go and move it one tooth at a time until it starts and runs well?
Thanks!
Put the engine @ TDC and then reinstall dist with rotor towards the #1.
No other way around it. You should have done this before you pulled the dist originally.
I agree with chuck but there is a 50/50 chance that you either get it right or have it 180* off you will only know if you try or you can pull #1 spark plug stick your finger in the hole rotate the engine and feel for the compression poof.
Line up dampener timing 0* mark and stab it in so the rotor points to the back. Set your wires, then your timing. Done. Easy :)
lining up the balancer, like I stated above gives a 50/50 chance of being right. follow what I said and get it right the first time.
Never done this before..can someone provide step-by-step directions on how to do this...do I have to take apart anything or is it easier than that?
Thanks in advance!
Paul
Best advice is already on here. Pull #1 plug, mark the balancer at 0 and 10 (or so) degrees with some white chalk. Slowly turn the motor over, by hand is best (wrench on crank bolt), and as the balance mark approaches 0 you will feel pressure (on your finger, which is placed over the spark plug hole) when on the compression stroke. When you feel the air pressure and see the 0 degree timing mark coming towards the pointer then stop on 0 degrees. Your motor is now at TDC (top dead center). Put the distributor back in (remember that it will turn slightly as it engages the gear on the cam) and make sure the rotor tip lines up with the #1 spark plug wire. Viola, done. Now you can get fancy and use a timing light with the plug disconnected or use the simpleton style of continuing to turn the engine over until the balancer is at 10 (or so ) degrees BTDC (before top dead center) when you put the distributor back in. Tighten the hold down bolt and cruise.
This is how I do it, finger in the number one plug trick to find TDC. Then find where the number one is on the cap and put the distributor in so it lines up the best you can. Try to start the motor and if it does not fire or runs poorly rotate the distributor slightly one way or the other until it runs good. Then fine tune it with the light.
TED
Plan B.
Unless you're really strong, I'd advise pulling all the spark plugs out to stab that dizzy. Otherwise, you're going to have to overcome at least three compression strokes on other cylinders while you're hunting TDC on #1, depending on crank/cam positions. You may have to go through 7 of them. No plugs, easy peasy to turn the engine, especially if it's got any significant mileage on it. I.E. rings are seated, friction is low.
Whatever you do, do not stick ANYTHING IN that spark plug hole that you do not want broken, or that can make a mark on top of the piston. I have used a wooden dowel to watch for upstroke of #1, but do not even advise that because it could hang and break off in the cylinder. If you're built like an orangutan, or have extra joints in your arms, putting your finger OVER the plug hole will let you know when you are on the compression stroke. While that is true, the valve train will not lie to you.
Pull the right valve cover and watch the valves on #1 as you turn the crank. If the Exhaust valve closes and the intake opens as you pass 0 degrees, that would be 180 degrees out, or intake stroke of #1. Turn one more revolution to get to TDC, aligning the 0 mark on the harmonic balancer with the timing pointer. Turn the dizzy body in the general direction you want it, preferrably with the #1 plug stud pointing at #1 cylinder as best possible. Turn the dizzy shaft about 15-20 degrees counter clockwise from pointing at where the #1 stud would be, to gain the offset of the spiral teeth on the dizzy gear. As you insert the dizzy, it will rotate clockwise as it splines with the worm on the cam. Before stabbing the dizzy, put the cap on it, and mark where the #1 stud on the cap is on the side of the dizzy with a Sharpie or something that can be removed with a little alcohol, or maybe use a small punch and make a tiny mark on the dizzy body if it's aluminum. After stabbing the dizzy, line the mark on the body up with the rotor. If you want, go ahead and put the harmonic balancer at 10 BTDC, NOT ATDC as a dealership did when I had a long block installed. Line the body of the dizzy up with the rotor then, and you'll be real close. Use a light to set it, though, to get the best performance. You may even be able to bump timingh up to 11 or 12 to get better economy and performance. Any further, and you'll lose all you gained (if not more) by having to by more expensive fuel. The EEC-IV was designed to run on 87 octane fuel. Advancing the timing will probably require higher octane or additives to prevent ping or detonation.
What you're trying to do is not hard at all. Hardest part if it's SEFI will be getting that 1234 valve cover off. If it's TBI, though, piece of cake. Probably wouldn't be a bad time to put some new VC gaskets on anyway. Unlike a points type distributor, it isn't quite as easy with solid state ignition. With an old points type distributor, set TDC (minus advance) drop the dizzy in, and turn the body until the points close. (A good use for the test light [across the points] in the other thread). No need for a timing light there, other than to fine tune or play with advance.
Sorry Old_Paint but your way is way too hard and slow. Just hook up a remote starter button to the solenoid and let the starter turn it over. When you feel compression with you finger in number one you know it is tdc. Then you can fine tune it a little by hand.
KISS
TED
That starter turns that engine pretty fast. Yeah, it's not fun pulling the plugs, but if he's doing dizzy work anyway, may as well take the time to check the plugs/wires too.
Advice is free, and worth every penny if ignored.
Well, I have set it at TDC and at 10BTDC but still have no improved results...I have attached photos of it at TDC and with dizzy stabbed...
..Also included is a video of the car running (ROUGH)...can anyone diagnose the problem? THANKS!
Two things I can think of:
1. The EEC needs to know where plug number 1 is. The "vane" on the distributor (the metal thing with all the windows and slats under the roter) that corresponds to plug number 1 (it looks different) has to line up with plug number 1 in the firing sequence. If not the EEC fires the injectors at the wrong time.
2. You have a stock 5.0 right? You have the firing order at 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 correct? If it's wired for the 5.0 HO firing order of 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 it will not run or run like .
Thats pretty much how it should look. Have someone crank it over while you spin the dist left and right. If that fails, see if you are 180* out (thumb over the #1 spark plug hole trick).
Here are the codes I pulled from a KOER:
12: Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test high RPM check.
21: ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
22: MAP/BP sensor out of self test range.
42: No HEGO switching detected always rich (right side).
92: HEGO sensor circuit indicates system rich (left side).
18: SPOUT circuit open or spark angle word failure.
Any ideas on whats up? Thanks in advance!
The 21 indicates you either didn't let the engine get warm enough before you ran the test, or, the ECT is DOA. If the latter, the engine will run poopy, and be extremely rich. Failed ECT will put the EEC in "Limp Mode". 42 and 92 mean the same thing, just for opposite sides of the engine. 18 seems to say you didn't put the spout connector back in, and the EEC could not detect spark advance based on where it was trying to set the timing. 22, dead MAP sensor? Not likely, but a large vacuum leak could cause that. Last, but not least, check the VOUT from the EEC. You're not getting an EVP or TPS error but that's a lot of errors. Clear them, and check again. To clear, start the test, and when it starts flashing the codes, just pull the jumper out of the DCL.
Make sure the engine is warm before you run the test. Otherwise, it'll throw a wad of codes at you that don't mean diddly.
You did put the SPOUT connector back in right? ;)
So, I went out and bought a timing light to test the timing but I'm having some problems...
...because the engine is idling rough, the mark I made on the balancer at 10 BTDC is bouncing around the timing line when I use the light...
Is this still related to timing, causing the engine to Chug along and run rich, or is there another problem that could be causing this
Just replaced plugs and checked wires, and still no improvement...any thoughts?
start over and reset the dizzy, your prob off one tooth on the cam.
you cant rotate the crank in any ole direction to fine tune because..... drum roll again please..........
>slop in the timing chain>
once you get on to your compression stroke by way of the natural spinning direction of the motor, and you went bast TDC on your pointer, you should rotate the crank by hand the opposite direction beyond the pointer. You then rotate in the correct direction to TDC on the pointer. with a lot of slop in the timing chain, you may have to play around with centering up the cam to crank so to speak.
If you were having trouble getting it to seat, your prob in bad timing with the chain and you need to factor this in the mix to insure your on the correct cam to dizzy tooth.
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here is a diy step by step , ignore steps you want, its your call.
Distributor check and reset
remove #1 plug
insert a decent wad of tissue paper tightly in the spark plug hole
quickly bump engine over until you hear the tissue paper pop out
you are now on compression stroke for number one cyl but not tdc
looking directly at the crank pully rotate the crank CW until pointer is on tdc
as you trun your crank, use a narrow screwdriver in the plug hole and touching the piston
as you rotate the crank, the screwdriver will rise as you hold it.
you will feel a flat area where nothing happens then it changes
go back to where you were and line back up to where the piston is tdc.
if the pass valve cover is off, both #1 rockers should be kinda loose
remove dizzy cap and rotor should be pointing directly at number 1 post
if its ahead or behind, you are off and dizzy needs reset.
**if its off by like a half inch or so, then dont pull the dizzy, just adjust by advance or retarding.
The proper or typical look of a dizzy is the rotor point at number one post and the TFI pointing towards
the drivers front corner. (this is just my opinion). After the dizzy is checked, you have room to advance either
direction.
RESET
remove 1/2 bolt,keeper at the base of dizzy
remove tfi plug
the dizzy will be tight to get out at first cause of the oring at the base
be careful if you do not know whos been in your motor before.
its possible the oil pump shaft may not have the keeper on
if it does not, the oil pump shaft may fall down into the timing cover/oil pan
if this happens, your screwed.
there is no way to tell if the little slip on keeper is installed or not.
you can only tell if the motor is opened up.
Gently rotate the dizzy back and forth while trying to lift it.
lube up the oring with grease at the base of the dizzy and the hole
when you get it out, guess / estimate your location/orientation of the rotor.
its a good idea to look at other engines as to how their dizzy sits
the orientation of the tfi is important for setting the timing later.
drop the dizzy and fully seat it.
check to see if it will be point to number 1 post
if it does, snug on the keep / bolt and use your timing light to adjust.
set timing to 10deg btdc or whatever you prefer.
**sometimes you may have to nudge the crank either cw or ccw a wee bit to get the hex shaped
oil pump shaft to mate up inside the dizzy shaft. this gets tricky and if you cant get the dizzy to seat,
you gotta keep tinkering with the crank either direction while trying to seat the dizzy.
i am puzzled by why you posted a pic of something that does not include the pointer. you have a pic of a secondary measurement point which happens to have a missing part:hick:
Problem solved...Had a missing vac line to the MAP that was messing it up...runs much better now