Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: pjn2557 on September 04, 2009, 03:15:58 PM
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: pjn2557 on September 04, 2009, 03:15:58 PM
I have an 88 cougar XR7 that is stock except the air silencer removal...Recently, the car will get up or near running temp. and will stall out...Some times I will be able to get it started again, but it always dies again shortly after that (1-2miles). After that, it will rest for 45mins or so and will start up after that.
The problem seemed to start when the car would not start after shutting off the engine following a longer trip on thruway (1 hr drive), and slowed progressed to where the car would randomly die while driving....
I have tried a number of things: -Coolant flush -Checked plugs/wires -Cleaned distributor cap/rotor -New Ignition Control Module and Pick-up coil (the part inside the distributor)
I just took it for a 3 min ride after rebuilding the distributor and letting it warm up to about 150deg...it stalled and would not start after pulling in a driveway to turn around. I put the car in reverse after pulling up and it seemed to die then.
Any ideas?? This one has got me stumped..
Thanks in advance!!
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: 88turbo on September 04, 2009, 03:27:22 PM
have you checked fuel pressure? sounds like the issue I was having a few months ago, car would run fine for a while then randomly die. let it sit for a few (I found that it sped things up if I bled the fuel pressure off) and it would start and run fine for a little while then do the same thing again. turns out my fuel pump was randomly deciding to lock up. new pump fixed the problem.
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: daminc on September 04, 2009, 04:43:45 PM
does it loose power fast before it dies? or just dies suddenly?
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: Ductape91 on September 04, 2009, 05:58:51 PM
my hyundai did something like this and it turned out to be the thermostat locked up solid and would literally stop the engine when it got up to temp. didnt notice it untill i ran it with the radiator cap off. also, is your temp reading based off the factory guage?
Title: more...
Post by: pjn2557 on September 04, 2009, 06:04:01 PM
it seems to loose power before hand, but it has happened before when it just dies as well...
..also, when it was about to die once (check engine came on and it started to stall/die out), i gave it some throttle and it kicked back and apparently had sooty exhaust but then it died again a couple minutes down the road...
..I have been noticing it idling a little rough after giving it steady throttle to 3500rpm and letting off..it will shudder a bit while idling but then seems to smooth out..back and forth, shudder-smooth-shudder-smooth, etc...not sure if this is related to the stalling out problem
addl. notes:alternator is 1y6mo old, pwr steering pump is 2mo old, and intake plenum, vacuum lines, and valve cover gaskets are 2mo old...
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: pjn2557 on September 04, 2009, 06:06:35 PM
I have an aftermarket temp gauge with numbers 'cause my dash temp gauge shiznit the bed...I have a fail-safe thermostat in currently so I dont think it is stuck closed, if anything its stuck open because I ran the car with the radiator cap off and there was a constant flow of fluid....
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: daminc on September 04, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
if you have idling problems and it has been bogging out before it dies after it gets to temp. Your cats may be clogged if they're old.(or sat for a long time)
if it feels like it's not getting enough gas. it may be the fuel pump or the pump relay switch fritzing out.
You say it never dies at all when the motor is cold? It's a xr7 with a stock 5.0?
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: pjn2557 on September 04, 2009, 06:40:49 PM
stock xr7 with 5.0....it always starts when cold, then dies after getting to 185-195deg...its been a daily driver for about a year and a half...this prob just kinda crept up..
..you mentioned the cats...you mean cat converter? (sry im a novice)
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: daminc on September 04, 2009, 07:10:44 PM
yes, sorry... that's what I meant. Have you checked for engine error codes?
I see your my neighbor.;)
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: pjn2557 on September 04, 2009, 09:51:16 PM
i can't really check the codes because it only gets a check engine after it stalls, when it won't read anything...
..replacing the fuel pump pick-up and thermostat this weekend and going from there...will keep updated...thanks for the probable causes!
(yep, in rochester currently..originally from alden)
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: daminc on September 04, 2009, 09:55:54 PM
try a "key on" test first. it'll check all the sensors on the motor
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: Old_Paint on September 05, 2009, 12:15:46 AM
KOEO - Key On, Engine Off - Make sure you warm the engine first, though. See www.fordfuelinjection.com (http://"http://www.fordfuelinjection.com") for a good description of running this test. Idling should warm the engine within 10-15 minutes, less if you fast idle (2000 RPM) it. Warm engine is necessary to prevent ACT and ECT sensor codes.
KOER - Key On, Engine Running (as if the engine could be running without Key On?). This is a dynamic test, and requires some intervention which varies slightly with the EEC model. One variation is the BOO (Brake On/Off) test, which is not done on the manual transmission version. The manual transmission requires turning the steering wheel instead to check the PS pressure switch. Miss one step, and you'll get a failure code for the whole test, but no other information.
Don't need no fancy code reader if you can count up to 9. Since you have a CEL, you can initiate the test and watch the CEL blink. All it takes is a pape clip to jumper STI to ground. Grab your favorite beverage, have a seat, turn on the key, and count the blinks of the CEL.
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: Ductape91 on September 05, 2009, 04:14:10 PM
try taking the thermostat out and running it, since its right up there on top for shiznits and giggles you see. for me a fail safe thermostat could still get clogged up with from your cooling sytem, even if it fails open. could the coolant temp sensor(not sender) have anything to do with this?
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on September 05, 2009, 04:25:22 PM
Quote from: Ductape91;290008
try taking the thermostat out and running it, since its right up there on top for shiznits and giggles you see. for me a fail safe thermostat could still get clogged up with from your cooling sytem, even if it fails open. could the coolant temp sensor(not sender) have anything to do with this?
It would be running hot if the thermostat were stuck, clogged, whatever... That ain't the problem...
A t/stat WILL NOT keep one from running, unless it's caused the engine to overheat to the point it seizes... There'd be coolant allover Hell if that were happening...
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: Ductape91 on September 05, 2009, 06:40:56 PM
my hyundai never overheated when the thermostat stuck on it, it would stall out before then. i can see your point but these cars have metal radiators not that poping plastic junk(which the hyundai eventually did after a week of driving it like that). i confirmed it with a know good and accurate aftermarket guage if it matters. nothing is "failsafe" as far as im concerned. im not trying to sling bs here and pass it off as info ya know, just something for him to try that isnt very invasive untill he pulls codes on it.
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: Haystack on September 05, 2009, 07:35:25 PM
You really need to run codes before guessing. There isn't even enough information provided to really give us a good guess.
Pull codes first. I would be betting on ignition related.
Title: Update:
Post by: pjn2557 on September 08, 2009, 08:12:25 PM
Well,
Replaced the thermostat because I already had it apart and it was a cheap replacement, but tried to START and had following issues:
-Car started and ran ROUGH (shaking, studdering, and sounding like its struggling to live..was somewhat unreactive to throttle) for 20sec before I just shut off..very unusual considering it usually starts and runs great up until it dies...ran like shiznit
-Car will no longer start following this incident: turns over, then just drains battery; can hear starter and fuel pumps kick on...
Because of this I am charging battery overnight and HOPING to check codes tomorrow, as I can not do so with out it running/warm
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: CoogarXR on September 08, 2009, 09:25:51 PM
Have you checked to see if you even have spark? Fuel pressure?
My motto; I'd rather guess and buy tools than guess and buy parts... At least the tools can be used later for something else. Get a spark tester and a fuel pressure gage.
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: pjn2557 on September 09, 2009, 01:12:07 PM
Working on getting the distributor back to its original position so that I can run the car and pull codes....yea, I F*ed up haha....
Title: Hey What Happened?
Post by: ckrivin on April 18, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
Sorry I know this is an old thread, but I'm wondering if the problems got fixed, and if so how? Thank you
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: Watchdevil on April 18, 2010, 07:18:25 PM
Quote from: daminc;289917
if you have idling problems and it has been bogging out before it dies after it gets to temp. Your cats may be clogged if they're old.(or sat for a long time)
if it feels like it's not getting enough gas. it may be the fuel pump or the pump relay switch fritzing out.
You say it never dies at all when the motor is cold? It's a xr7 with a stock 5.0?
Exact problem I have it seems, when the cats reach a hot temperature it idles rough and will stall. Once I get the car moving with the cats hot it seems to be suffocating for power. It is more difficult to restart and keep it running when this happens. I know I have to replace the cats and virtually the entire exhaust system. This is all part of the now focus of attention to the drivetrain now that the weather is good enough to work outside.
Title: Stumped: 88XR7 Starts but stalls at temp - HELP!!
Post by: sarjxxx on April 21, 2010, 01:36:14 AM
Quote from: Old_Paint;289955
KOEO - Key On, Engine Off - Make sure you warm the engine first, though. See www.fordfuelinjection.com (http://"http://www.fordfuelinjection.com") for a good description of running this test. Idling should warm the engine within 10-15 minutes, less if you fast idle (2000 RPM) it. Warm engine is necessary to prevent ACT and ECT sensor codes.
KOER - Key On, Engine Running (as if the engine could be running without Key On?). This is a dynamic test, and requires some intervention which varies slightly with the EEC model. One variation is the BOO (Brake On/Off) test, which is not done on the manual transmission version. The manual transmission requires turning the steering wheel instead to check the PS pressure switch. Miss one step, and you'll get a failure code for the whole test, but no other information.
Don't need no fancy code reader if you can count up to 9. Since you have a CEL, you can initiate the test and watch the CEL blink. All it takes is a pape clip to jumper STI to ground. Grab your favorite beverage, have a seat, turn on the key, and count the blinks of the CEL.