Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: quick50stng on July 27, 2009, 12:56:21 PM

Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 27, 2009, 12:56:21 PM
With 245,000 miles on my 88 the engine and body/interior were the more attractive aspect of my $650 purchase.

After 2 months of driving the stock AOD front pump disintegrated. I replaced it with a rebuilt unit for a 5.0 Mustang with added A servo.

Rear end was leaking from all orifice so I pulled the 2:73 Tlok rear in favor of a low mile 7.5 with 3:45 gears and T-lok donated from a FourEyedPride Member.

Added mustang headers upr x pipe and flowmasters

Upgraded front brakes to 11" mustang rotors and added Mustang Pony's

The car feels much better after the gear install but is still much to be desired in the performance department.

I've collected all the E-7 parts for the swap, 190 Walbro fuel pump, and HO ECU. I've also deleted smog and doing a A/C delete with the Ford Motorsport kit since the A/C unit is beyond repair and would cost several hundred dollars to put it back in service. While it's all apart I'm replacing the radiator which fins are all bent and has green scale all over it and new water pump.

When I'm done the only thing original to the engine, and drive train will be the short block. After all this is done I'll still only have $1600 bucks in this car:D

Starting today I'll start posting pics as i go along.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Thunder Chicken on July 27, 2009, 01:16:47 PM
I believe you'll need a Mustang AC/PS bracket if you're using an A/C eliminator kit. The Mustang and T-Bird/Cougar brackets are different.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 27, 2009, 01:42:24 PM
http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-8511-A50.pdf

I'm just using the supplied brackets in the kit to relocate the p.s pump without using ac brackets etc.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 32VFoxBird on July 27, 2009, 02:08:30 PM
everyone on this board has at least E7 heads, so you may just be wasting your time. it's as common as changing your oil.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 27, 2009, 02:21:40 PM
I think that is a bit exaggerated that everyone has them I know they are mega common. I just thought I'd share the build and progress because this is a T-bird / Cougar forum you know. If you'd rather not see it then I guess you should not read further postings since its so common and boring. Good lord there always one in the crowd that's a PITA.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 86Tbuzzard on July 27, 2009, 03:22:41 PM
take some pics some novice maybe looking for pics for help...also dorman makes a a/c delete bracket/pulley for the thundercats for about $30
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: mjbtbrd on July 27, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: 86Tbuzzard;284084
take some pics some novice maybe looking for pics for help


X2

I'd like to see the pics
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: massCougarxr7 on July 27, 2009, 04:14:11 PM
x3 havent done this swap yet, got all the parts cept, opened up egr, and intake sensor....
Pics a comin?????
Title: Let's see it !
Post by: hwy73 on July 27, 2009, 04:19:09 PM
x4

I have not done the E7 heads / HO swap, so I would like to see the pictures of this deal.  I realize a search would reveal  near the same thing, but I say post it.
Title: The subject
Post by: quick50stng on July 27, 2009, 09:10:43 PM
88 Sport Coupe Bucket Seat, floor shift, buttstuffog gauges, 245k, with zero rust and since I'm originally from PA I really appreciate this.

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2394/dscn2421.jpg)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 28, 2009, 12:30:48 AM
I have them....




On a shelf for the past few years.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on July 28, 2009, 07:46:32 AM
Post up pics !

We all love pics and details.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: V8Demon on July 28, 2009, 08:21:56 AM
You ARE swapping the cam, correct?  You made no mention of it and considering you wish to use the HO ECU......Well they go hand in hand.  Don't forget the injectors as well ;)

As far as the A/C eliminator.......You WILL need the power steering bracket from a Fox body 5.0 Mustang as the eliminator bracket itself bolts directly to the power steering bracket as shown in the link you posted.  The holes on the eliminator will not line up with a stock Cougarbird P/S bracket.  The P/S bracket shown in the diagram is NOT provided in the kit.  The kit is merely the metal flat piece and attaching hardware.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 28, 2009, 09:09:38 AM
Ok, here is my complete list of swap parts ready to go minus a mustang p.s. bracket now:hick: I'll get one this week.

Low Mileage E-7 Heads
Stock 5.0 H0 Camshaft .444
Stock 5.0 HO Upper/Lower Intake
5.0 Throttle Body / EGR Spacer
Walbro 190 lb fuel pump
19 lb Explorer injectors
Speed Density 5.0 HO ECU
New Roller Lifters
New Timing Set
Complete Felpro Gasket Kit

While its apart I'm going to make it pretty and have the timing cover, alt bracket, ps bracket bead blasted. I pulled the py old hood insulation out and will wash, clean, scuff the underside and hit it with a few cans of red Krylon.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: V8Demon on July 28, 2009, 09:18:12 AM
Make sure the injectors are the EV1 style ones.

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/V8Demon/Car%20Tech/Injector-info2.jpg)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 28, 2009, 09:34:37 AM
Yes, EV1 removed from a 96' Explorer with a 5.0
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 28, 2009, 12:15:29 PM
Regarding the p.s. pump bracket. Is it the bracket that actually attaches to the pump itself?
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 86Tbuzzard on July 28, 2009, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;284189
You ARE swapping the cam, correct?  You made no mention of it and considering you wish to use the HO ECU......Well they go hand in hand.  Don't forget the injectors as well ;)

As far as the A/C eliminator.......You WILL need the power steering bracket from a Fox body 5.0 Mustang as the eliminator bracket itself bolts directly to the power steering bracket as shown in the link you posted.  The holes on the eliminator will not line up with a stock Cougarbird P/S bracket.  The P/S bracket shown in the diagram is NOT provided in the kit.  The kit is merely the metal flat piece and attaching hardware.


did the LSC have the same bracket? i have one of those kicking around, also, i can get the dorman part number, and maybe a pic of the eliminator i used
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 28, 2009, 12:32:16 PM
Someone local here has the P.S. bracket that attaches to the pump itself from a Mustang. From using the search function here it's the bracket I need.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 32VFoxBird on July 28, 2009, 01:03:10 PM
I wasn't trying to come off as being an ass. just giving a heads up if not many comments are being posted.

and FWIW, with that kind of mileage I would have bought a good used mustang or explorer motor.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 28, 2009, 03:41:43 PM
No problem. I considered getting another drop in engine for it but it has been well maintained and doesn't smoke. I did a compression test and didn't get a low number on any of the cylinders. All fell in the 145 to 140 range so I'd say it has some life left in her.

This is my daily ride 60 miles round trip every day. Cheap, fun, and comfortable. I scored most of the items for the swap for less than a few hundred thanks to the huge mustang community here in Atlanta.

My expectations are 190-210 hp to the wheels which has to be more fun than the 125 ish available now (lol). I don't want to get wrapped up in alot of $ for this car. I'm using alot of leftovers from other cars I've had as well. If I get another 5 solid years out of the engine. I'll be happy;)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: V8Demon on July 28, 2009, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: 86Tbuzzard;284210
did the LSC have the same bracket? i have one of those kicking around, also, i can get the dorman part number, and maybe a pic of the eliminator i used


I believe the LSC bracket is the same as the Cougarbird one....there was a thread on that on this site; can't seem to find it...
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 29, 2009, 07:41:47 AM
I jumped in and tore almost everything down last night. All accessories, brackets, and upper/lower intake. I need to rent a harmonic balancer puller from auto zone tonight and pickup the mustang p.s. bracket on the way home from work.

Tonight I'll unbolt the X-pipe, remove the headers, swap out the camshaft and swap computers because that's all I'll have time for today. I'll get some pics of all the parts going in and install shots.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Masejoer on July 29, 2009, 01:28:04 PM
Quote from: quick50stng;284238

My expectations are 190-210 hp to the wheels which has to be more fun than the 125 ish available now (lol).


With full exhaust work, 190ish may be possible but I think most stock mustangs dyno around 180rwhp. Of course, anything is better than stock SO.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 29, 2009, 01:56:26 PM
Yes and remember that is with box stock factory tune. Now if you exclusively run 91-93 octane and turn the timing up the numbers get a little better (which will be for track days only). I intend to post track times when its done since i live 25 min from Atlanta Dragway. Won't be any earth shattering times but hope to get some 14.50's using the Convo Pro bigs and littles and E.T. Streets off my Mustang.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Masejoer on July 29, 2009, 02:20:35 PM
I would think the gears should help you get there with your intended mods (including exhaust). The heads are still exhaust restricted though (perhaps you can help that out a little bit with some grinding?) and the intake will do well until, what, 4-4500 rpm's? Little things like adjusting the TV cable for the aod may help slightly also. E7 heads and other stock parts are dirt cheap, no desire from the Mustang crowd so I don't see any problem with the swap. There are always better parts but there is also that huge diminishing value thing - more $ for less power. After all, you're increasing your output 50+%!

I also don't know exactly what can be gained from a tune but the ECU shoots for nearly 11:1 air to fuel on a stock tune (at least on my mass air eec). Leaning this out to 12.5:1 or thereabouts can open up some more power also. This goes against the power to cost ratio though.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 29, 2009, 02:36:09 PM
The stock HO intake will have to do for now. Eventually I'd like to add an explorer upper/lower or ported lower but will stop at that point. I want to concentrate on aesthetics after these engine changes. Need new or better head lights and would like a nice set of tail lights. Mine have some cracks and the factory paint from the inside of the lens is flaking off. Need a new console armrest and the list goes on. I've actually spotted another 87/88 about 2 miles from my house nosing out from behind a barn. :D
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 31, 2009, 01:12:00 PM
Not much to report. I'll have pics of the tare down and reassembly soon.

Swapped ECM's over last night. Anyone need a spare one (free + ship)

This has to be the nastiest engine I have ever worked on. I'm going to take about 5 cans of carb cleaner and a ser to get as much off as I can. It must have had leaky valve cover gaskets for years.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on July 31, 2009, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: quick50stng;284657
Not much to report. I'll have pics of the tare down and reassembly soon.

Swapped ECM's over last night. Anyone need a spare one (free + ship)

This has to be the nastiest engine I have ever worked on. I'm going to take about 5 cans of carb cleaner and a ser to get as much off as I can. It must have had leaky valve cover gaskets for years.


I took my disassembled block over to one of the U-Wash carwash places and let-er-have-it with the engine wash and high pressure hot water. 

Came out squeaky clean.  Just make sure you blow it out with compressed air and give it a good fogging with WD40 after.

(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/9593/30057320052largemedium.jpg) (http://img93.imageshack.us/i/30057320052largemedium.jpg/)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 88turbo on July 31, 2009, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: quick50stng;284657
Not much to report. I'll have pics of the tare down and reassembly soon.

Swapped ECM's over last night. Anyone need a spare one (free + ship)

This has to be the nastiest engine I have ever worked on. I'm going to take about 5 cans of carb cleaner and a ser to get as much off as I can. It must have had leaky valve cover gaskets for years.


how much shipped to 67005? Thanks
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on July 31, 2009, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: 88turbo;284675
how much shipped to 67005? Thanks

How's $15 shipped? I have PayPal and can get it out in the am for you. And just to clarify its for an 88 5.0 Thunderbird
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 04, 2009, 02:17:34 PM
I've made some good progress the last 2-3 days working on it here and there. I've been snapping pics as I go and will post them all once done.

Cam swapped, new lifters installed, new timing chain installed, heads on and valves adjusted, installed timing cover, upper intake and fuel rails, should have it ready to fire by Friday. Just ordered # TAY-64658K ignition kit from 50resto.com should be here Thursday.

Lessons learned: When intake bolt torque specks say 15-24 ft/lb. It really means 19 ft/lbs. Ask me how I know. I was on the last torquing sequence at 21 ft/lbs and heard a loud snap!! that almost wanted to make me get sick. The last bolt to be torqued broke off in the head. :mad:I yanked the lower off and headed to the parts store for any easy out and new set of gaskets. It's all good though. It's getting close.

Also learned the SO lower is cast differently in the rear of the intake where the PCV goes. HO lower requires a rubber grommet for the pcv to plug in and SO PCV goes straight into the intake. [COLOR="Red"]THIS INFORMATION IS WRONG THEY ARE THE SAME IT WAS DARK AND THE GROMMET WAS SO OLD IT WAS HARD AS A ROCK. SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION[/COLOR]
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on August 04, 2009, 05:34:11 PM
Quote from: quick50stng;285206
Also learned the SO lower is cast differently in the rear of the intake where the PCV goes. HO lower requires a rubber grommet for the pcv to plug in and SO PCV goes straight into the intake.

Hmm.  On mine It was identical.  I simply moved the grommet from the SO to the HO (then to the Typhoon but thats a different story).  Does anyone know where I can get one of those new (the grommet) ?  The one have is hard as a rock.

P.S. I never torque to the max torque.  I usually calculate the middle of the range as I figure that the mean value was the target and max and min are just the tolerances.  Eg. I torque my intake bolts to 20 ft/lbs.  Go over the intake bolts in order several times.  I found that as I torqued it down, the middle bolts would always be slightly under.  I keep going through the sequence till all bolts are at 20ft/lbs.  I have had good results doing it this way. 

Also, remember that if you are using an extension, it changes the torque reading.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 04, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Late Model Restoration sells the grommet for $8 i just ordered one today. 50resto.com

I was using an extension when torquing and started at 10 , 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19 (lol). I was scared another was going to snap so I repeated the pattern 6x.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: vinnietbird on August 04, 2009, 09:12:46 PM
I got my PVC grommet at Autozone.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Masejoer on August 04, 2009, 10:00:12 PM
Personally, I use at least grade 8 threaded rod, cut to length, and use it all as studs. Prevents broken off bolts and you get much better clamping. ARP studs or grade 8 studs from a store are nice too though. This also makes alignment issues a thing of the past.

Were you using old bolts? That in itself would cause it not to be able to get to torque spec. 20 years of heating cycles can do some nasty things.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 05, 2009, 05:33:51 AM
I was using a set of stock bolts I had laying around the shop because they were all clean and ready to go.

Upper/lower intake, fuel rails, and exhaust all back on now. Just have to install the water pump and front dress and will be ready to fire Thursday. :burnout::burnout::burnout:
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: cougarman on August 05, 2009, 07:34:43 AM
I always toss the stock bolts, and use ARP intake set.:D
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 05, 2009, 09:15:52 AM
With the extra money I spent on gaskets I could have bought a set of ARP's:punchballs:
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: cougarman on August 05, 2009, 09:58:21 AM
Quote from: quick50stng;285363
With the extra money I spent on gaskets I could have bought a set of ARP's:punchballs:


LOL, been there, done that. Had bolts break, both on assembly and disassembly :punchballs:, now I just toss them.:D
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 05, 2009, 11:39:12 AM
I'll do my best to get all the pics up tonight. I'm thrashing trying to get the car done by Thursday/Friday for a 2 hr car cruise on Saturday and want 1/2 day to drive shake down any problems beforehand. I've got some good progress pics + side by side pics of HO upper throttle bore opening vs SO and Throttle bodies, and cam pics. Coming soon.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 06, 2009, 10:29:49 PM
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6443/dscn2427h.jpg)
BEFORE
(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5862/dscn2428.jpg)
TEAR DOWN
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9155/dscn2433w.jpg)
HO CAM & E-7's installed
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1048/dscn2434m.jpg)
Getting closer
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 06, 2009, 10:32:24 PM
HO on left SO on right
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5395/dscn2436mbu.jpg)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: vinnietbird on August 06, 2009, 11:33:10 PM
Sweeeeeeet !!!!!!!
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Haystack on August 07, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
what are the differences on H.O to S.O on the bottom? I would assume the same since they use the same lower intake.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 07, 2009, 05:46:10 PM
None. They are identical and same part #.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 09, 2009, 10:02:56 PM
I have the conversion almost done!!!

The engine conversion is complete. I started it up tonight and got a big backfire. Advanced the distributor a little and it fired right up. No fuel leaks and one water leak at the temp sensor to fix. Sounds pretty good. Tomorrow I'll start it pull the distributor spout and give it 14 degrees of initial timing. I'll give a quite a few starts and idle time before the maiden journey. I still have to install the 190 lbh Walbro fuel pump which is the final step.

Another lesson learned. If you get an HO throttle body from a 5 spd car
you must cut off a stud and drill a hole through a rivet in the throttle arm for the transmission TV cable.

Once I get it washed and all cleaned up I'll give post some pics.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Masejoer on August 10, 2009, 08:32:53 PM
Make sure all is right - I don't think I've ever had my own vehicle backfire from the distributor being off (I have always eyed it into place though). Also isn't 14 degrees pushing it to start? I'd make sure it runs perfect at 10 + spout before moving it around.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 10, 2009, 09:02:20 PM
I stabbed the distributor in at 0 on the balancer and it was too retarded. I've got to restab the distributor with pointer at 10 degrees.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on August 10, 2009, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: quick50stng;286129
I stabbed the distributor in at 0 on the balancer and it was too retarded.

I bet it thinks the same about you!

Quote from: quick50stng;286129
I stabbed the distributor in at 0 on the balancer and it was too retarded. I've got to restab the distributor with pointer at 10 degrees.

Just stab it in at zero with the TFI connector pointing at the AC front bracket. ("1" on cap pointing almost straight back).  Balance set to 0.  Make sure the tiedown its snug enough so it wont spin on its own.  The button should be pointing almost at 1. Then turn it till its about an inch to two away from hitting the water neck.  It always starts for me there.  Pull out the timing light and go.

BTW
:ttiwwp:
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 11, 2009, 07:02:34 AM
I'll play with the timing tomorrow I have family obligations to attend to until then and YES I have lots of pics to post up just trying to find time but I'll get there. ;)
Title: Pics
Post by: quick50stng on August 14, 2009, 05:57:18 PM
I got the idle all figured out runs great. Definitely worth the trouble.

(http:// http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7171/dsc0405w.jpg)

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2879/dsc0403n.jpg)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 19, 2009, 02:51:40 PM
Looks great:D

Your engine bay looks less cluttered than mine. I think it's because you don't have A/C, wires for the climate control, or the wires for a MAF meter cluttering it up ;)
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: V8Demon on August 19, 2009, 08:28:11 PM
Drop that front end an inch and fill those rear wheel wells  :burnout:
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: quick50stng on August 20, 2009, 07:48:53 AM
Plans are 2 lower the car a little and add 15x6 and 15x8 Draglites with 275-60-15's stuff under there. I've also got a line on a Turbo Coupe hood for $50. Should be in my hands in the next week or so.

Recently had a few electrical gremlins jump in the car though. See the electrical section.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 86caprirs on August 20, 2009, 09:04:13 PM
Is the SO manifold restricted on the upper intake or both? Do you have to replace the lower intake with the HO upper?
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Haystack on August 21, 2009, 12:55:32 AM
The lower intake is the same for both intakes. only the top H.O. is different.
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: 86caprirs on August 21, 2009, 10:27:48 PM
Thanks. So remove the upper and replaced the lower injectors and upper intake with the HO. Thanks
Title: Documented E-7 upgrade coming soon (with lots of pics)
Post by: Haystack on August 22, 2009, 06:03:41 AM
you need to do the computer and cam at the same time as the fuel injectors, just FYI. If you have any problems checkout coolcats.net in the H.O. upgrade section, or start a thread on here and every one will jump in.