I've been looking at the alternatives to the stock exhaust manifold. I'm kinda underwhelmed at the alternatives.
However there is good news. Using one of my contacts, I can get cast manifolds made, yet I'll need to sell at least 25 at $150-160 dollars each in order to get a deal done.
Anyone who might be interested? I might be able to swing ceramic coating on the manifolds as well included in the price.
I'm thinking along the lines of a 6 inch primary to a center mount turbo . It would be a top center mount manifold. Turbo size would be up to the majority of people who would want to order.
If this works out, I'll be doing intake manifolds next in Cast aluminum.
ok, I have a solution,
If I can get eough people to buy, I will be able to have high flow CAST iron turbo manifolds manufactured.
price will be roughly 150 to 160 dollars a piece.
These will have larger than stock ports and primaries, and a turbo size that will be left up to the buyers (a vote for the size that all will come with). They can also come ceramic coated if wanted and will be able to be ported. These will not be log style but most likely top center turbo mount with 5-6 inch runners. This will require the use of a FMIC if a IC is used. On that side, If I can get enough people on board for a Cast aluminum intake, I will offer that as well which will be also larger than stock ports and runners with an opening outside of the Alternator. These I believe will also be around the same price of 160 dollars.
let me know if you'll be interested. I'll make a 10 dollar donation to the site for each sale.
What inside diameter will the primaries end up being? Also, where is the header going to be made, here in the US, or overseas?
This is assuming you're talking about the 2.3T?
What are your proposed benefits over what is currently available?
You'll be hard-pressed to get 25 preorders I imagine.
The primaries will be larger than stock with room to port. The runner will be longer than the stock log style, and it will be less expensive than a tubular header.
They will be made overseas.
If they flow better than stock and probably as good as a Tubular design and offer a performance gain and cost 150 dollars, it should be a good product to offer. If I don't get 25 people interested then obviously the demand is not there and I don't have it made.
Just saying that it's all talk and benchracing until you make one and test it. Turboforders don't come off their money easily, especially with no physical product to back it up.
You'll have to ante up if you're serious about it.
yeah, well I don't have the X thousand it will take to do it just sitting around. I have part of the $$ and will put it up, but need to order a minimum number. In order to meet that number, I need more money.
Does anyone part with their money easily?
I've been down this road before, the project failed because there was a single investor who backed out when there was a shipping delay.
Since I can't just Ante up all of it, if I don't get a certain number of orders, it does not happen. I'm simply offering an alternative to the stuff thats out there. Don't like the way I'm doing it then let me know if you have any suggestions other than telling me to pull money out of thin air.
BTW,
there will be at least a 2 year warranty.
Have you posted this on Turboford and NATO? Those sites are more geared toward the 2.3t, while this one is geared toward all Fox (and some MN12) T-Birds and Cougars
I can't join Turboford right now because I use Hotmail. As for NATO, I did post something but it was removed.
also, as to the point stated earlier. I believe I amn doing the best thing by telling people up front that I do not have the product in hand. How many times have you heard of, or even experienced yourself, ordering a product you thought was in stock, and then being run around for a long time before getting the product. THere is no need for run-arounds if you buy something and someone has it in stock, when they do this it is usually due to them lying or "failing to mention" that the part is not in stock. If I don't get the orders required, I'll learn that I should just lie and then give everyone the run-around.
Don't get snippy...I'm just telling you how things go. It's not like I'm new to the game myself.
I have been selling parts to turboforders for over 5 years. Things I have designed and built myself. I had prototypes on my car for almost 2 years before that before anyone even took notice or cared. To get things rolling I had to put up a couple samples to known members of the forum to get feedback. I'd also been a member of that community for 5-6 years as well before I started selling. I had contacts from my old job(which was in automotive aftermarket manufacturing and engineering) and enough credibility with the group to be able to say to the community at large what I would deliver and how I would deliver it and started with smaller group purchases/batch orders. I didn't (and still don't) have the $$$ to plunk it all down up front either.
Of course there will be "interest", but folks want to see hard parts. Especialy from a new vendor. They would rather give their money to someone who has supported the forum for a while and offers a known quantity instead of some "new" guy who "has an idea". It's been seen/done before.
You want a suggestion? Try talking to your contact and see if smaller quantities can be done. See if you can get a couple samples. If they want business, even if it's small, they will work with you. THIS is what will make the difference on whether it will happen or not.
Using an outside vendor for something like casting a new part is most likely not going to be a smooth process and delays are going to happen, and most likely won't be short ones. People are not going to be happy waiting months for a part, which may or not even be worth it in the end. For the price they pay you, or even double the price, they can buy a known product from a known vendor, or even build their own.
Bringing a new product to market is going to take work and money. It's just the facts.
And to add that a py economy sure won't help any either...:hick:
I was reacting to your post.
Using an outside vendor to make cast iron is the only way for me to make cast iron. Yes, delays can and most likely will happen. I can talk to them to see if lower numbers are possible.
Let me also say this. I'm doing this and have tried to do this because I have been out of work for a long time. There are no good paying jobs available for a Telecommunications installer in my area. I also have other factors that limit me to my area. I'm an honest hard working guy. I have a lot to offer and can offer a lot if I can get things lined up right. As a potentioal competitor, do you find it your responsibilty to discredit me immediately or do you thiink you might try to find out what I have to offer and see if perhaps we can help each other? After all, I don't have everything it takes to get going, it sounds like you are already a few steps ahead but probably need to go quite a bit further before being considered a successful aftermarket parts maker. Perhaps I can help.
I'll PM to to keep the thread on Topic.
Well I was not discrediting you in any way, shape, or form. Just putting out there what the lay of the land is. If you have an idea, great. You asked for suggestions, and you then get defensive. *shrug*
As far as myself being successful, considering every part that I sell comes from my hands, and I have 500+ units in service, around the world, I think I'm doing pretty well for working in a niche market.
Check your PMs.
Well you are trying to lead me down a path to discredit myself or to basically give up. Understandable when you yourself are in the market. My question is this, are you content making a few hundred parts or would you rather use your knowledge and ability to design parts, then have them made elsewhere and sell hundreds of different parts per month?
fighting with someone who knows what there talking about and telling them there wrong isn't going to get you anywhere. If you read it from a neutral state of mind, there is nothing but good advise in the post that seems to be bugging you.
I'm not fighting nor am I being aggressive, I also never told him he was wrong.
Simply put, he said ante up and do it yourself, I did take offense to it as it implies I am trying to pass the cost on to the consumer because I don't want to pay for it myself. The truth is I can't. Am I telling him he's wrong because I can't follow his advice and pay for it all at once?
Yes, there is good advice, and I am trying to open the door to talk with Chuck. I believe the best place to do so is in PMs.
Maybe a better term would be stubborn?
Example:
There are PLENTY of other free e-mail accounts you could set up to remedy that and open the door to other potential customers...
Just a suggestion.
You could also Email the admin over at Turboford and they can manually register you. I had to do that since I have an AOL email account which they don't allow.
I don't see a difference. Whether you can't finance the project on your own because you don't have the capital to do so, or won't finance it because you don't want to risk the investment. Either way you are putting the start-up costs on the customer.
As another example, do a search on here or NATO for lowering springs and you will find hundreds of inquires of people wanting to know where they can be bought because most of the well known companies no longer make them specifically for our cars.
Several years ago I talked to Eibach and was told that they would do another production run of their discontinued spring set if I ordered 100 sets.
Like you, I just don't have the capital to purchase them and then sit on them and sell them a set at a time.
In a short amount of time I found enough people that were "interested" to cover 50% of the order needed but when it came down to people that were willing to actually commit to placing an order with their money it was less than 10%.
If I had the money, I would still order the 100 sets today because I feel that the demand is still there but there just aren't enough people willing to commit to it all at once.
All Chuck is trying to do is make you aware of the market that there is for these kinds of things and not to expect everyone to come running to buy one unless you have a working and successful product that is ready to ship.
What you are proposing sounds very promising and if you had a product that showed proof that it worked as advertised for the amount of money you are expecting it to sell for, I would be a customer. No offense, but I personally don't see how it could be prototyped, built, and imported for only $150.00 even without having it ceramic coated.
Brent
That's being stubborn?
I did email them and was told I can't use any "free" email service. So I'm not breaking my back to find a way to join another forum.
If I got a few people interested here I would know it would be worth looking into it more in other places as well. However if I don't get one person to even say their interested here, why bother?
You answered your own question with a resounding YES in my opinion.
Best of luck to you...
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, I didn't deny having to pass the cost on. I did say I didn't like how I was told to just ante up the money to do it and I have no way of doing that.
well I got to that point and went and asked if people would be willign to commit to buy. I agree, it would be a good investment, if you had the money.
I get that, and that could be a possibility in the near future.
Well, sand casting is not that complicated a process. If you are going to get a prototype made, you need to be seriously looking to buy a certain number. I can meet that with my finances and with 25 people willing to buy at 150 each. It's a catch 22. I need to know people will buy before I commit to the prototype and people need to see the prototype working before they commit to buying.
I'll talk with the supplier, work on my design and see if a prototype can be made.
ummm, ok. So someone else wrote in and was accepted, I wrote in and wasn't...... ok. Seriously, if it comes down to it, when I am ready to try to sell to more people, I'll work on getting another email to join over there. Actually I'd probably buy a domain name to start a website to push the product, then I could use my email through that site to join over there. Til then it's just not that serious.
If you call not beating my self up about not being able to join a forum to run a second test about Exhaust manifolds that I have not commited to have made yet, being stubborn.... fine. If I was so stubborn would I look into getting a prototype made after the suggestion from Chuck and others, which everyone assumes I am fighting with?
This thread is a test to see what interest there is. So far I have one person saying if I do it and make a prototype that is proven to make power he'd be interested to buy one at 150 dollars. Hardly overwhelming.
I Could go on for quite a bit.....
I'll just wish you the best of luck again instead. (http://smiliesftw.com/x/smilie_thumbsup.gif)
I wouldn't put a penny up on a product that doesn't exist yet.
so if I came up with a prototype that shows promise, you'd be interested?
If you came up with a prototype and dyno tested against stock, I'm sure you'd gather a hell of a lot more interest. I've been in your situation twice...but it never went through because of how difficult it was to get the start-up money.
Good luck,
Don
werd.
Yeah I am pretty sure I can swing the prototype, and maybe pull a few favors to get some Dyno time. We'll see.
Well Chuck, I was being an ASS. Sorry. The Beer's on me if and when we meet.
I'm not in the 2.3T market anymore, but I'll give you my personal experience.
I bought a log header from 40Bob. I didn't buy it because it was the cheapest. I could have gone on ebay, bought a header "kit", with the header, downpipe, oil lines, etc, for the price I paid for the 40Bob header. The reason I went the route I did is because Bob's header is proven. He has been making them for years, people have be using them for years, proven power, proven durability, and proven customer service.
Same thing goes with the Precision SC50 I bought. I could have bought a MasterPower T3/T04E with nearly identical specs as the SC50 for 500. I spent nearly 900 on the SC50 for the guaranteed quality, and the guaranteed customer service. It's a good thing I did, I blew the turbo, and they repaired it under warranty for the cost of shipping. MasterPower wouldn't even answer their phone at that point.
I'll say that you're doing a good thing with trying to provide a good product for a cheap price, but in the TurboFord world, people either want stupid cheap/free, or something proven to work. The community is full of sheep as far as when someone says it's bad, EVERYBODY follows, so if you get one bad review, everybody trash talks the product.
Personally, if you want to be a long lasting vendor in the community, your best bet would to be to get a few prototypes made, and have them out on cars for durability testing, get some numbers, and some reviews. While your price isn't a lot, the economy being what it is, especially in a stingy market is going to make it very frustrating to make any sales.
/End thread
sorry, just been busy,
no real progress yet though.
Tbird232ci, well put. I do want to offer something that does offer improved performance and good quality. That's why I am looking at the Cast manifolds instead of the welded headers.