Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: quicksilver on July 24, 2009, 01:48:26 AM
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 24, 2009, 01:48:26 AM
my T5 turbo doesnt fully spool till about 5,200ish rpm with a racing header. max boost ive gotten up to is 18lbs. is this because of my head being restrictive? would the higher flower exhaust im going to get help this spooling problem? at 3-4000rpm it puts out around 7lbs, 4-5200rpm it bumps up to 10-15lbs then once it hits 5,200 it feels like vtech and bumps up to 18lbs. i shut down around 5,800rpms.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: dominator on July 24, 2009, 07:25:14 AM
To big of a turbo,therefore to much lag(bigger turbo takes longer to spool). Ask 1wldbrd,he had a holset on his old tc and it took forever to spool up but when it finally did it went pretty good. Go with a t3t4 hybrid.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: bhazard on July 24, 2009, 11:11:58 AM
T5 turbo?
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: jangus on July 24, 2009, 11:57:49 AM
A turbo that size really needs proper flow through the motor to spool up respectably. I would consider a ported big valve head, a ported lower intake, a gutted upper intake, and a larger throttle body at this point. Not to mention you'll need bigger injectors, and a way to tune for them. Do you have a wideband O2 meter in the car? You need to bring the rest of the engine up to the potential that the turbo has. If you can't put that much into it right now, do what Dominator suggested and actually step down on the turbo size. You'll have quicker spool times, and your entire combo will work as a unit, as it should.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 24, 2009, 02:25:09 PM
bhazard the T5 turbo is off a vovlo. ok so it sounds like a have to drop acoupe acoupe pretty pennies. thanks for your help guys, i appreciate it!
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 24, 2009, 02:31:04 PM
is this the head i need? oh and what is a wideband 02 sensor? http://racerwalsh.zoovy.com/product/RWA1681_H/RWA1681_H__23_hyd_power_head_special_order.html
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: jangus on July 24, 2009, 02:43:06 PM
No, this is the head you need: http://www.bo-port.com/headpkg.html (http://"http://www.bo-port.com/headpkg.html") Boport knows 2.3 turbos. Best bang for your buck if your going to spend it. He offers a couple different performance levels. Contact him, he'll be happy to discuss your goals and what head/cam match your intended hp level.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: ipsd on July 24, 2009, 04:11:28 PM
Yes Too big of a turbo makes is spool SLOW and LAGGY that is why Ford put the smaller IHI on there to get you into boost quicker! You've already stepped up to the bigger turbo why not try and maximize what you have. What have you done to the exhaust. I know removing the cat helped Spool times less restriction in the flow. Are you running a manual boost controller? If so turn the boost level up that slows down the signal sent to the waste gate and will keep it fully closed until set boost level us reached! Then as always a smaller turbo would help along with maximizing flow through the intake, head, exhaust will help. A wideband is an O2 sensor that instead of detecting just a narrow range of the range it detects the full range from way to lean to way to rich not just this is the right range. Then with a wide band you can output that information to a digital gauge that shows you real air/fuel ratio!
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 25, 2009, 04:54:46 PM
what trim size turbo should i get to get max performance out of it?
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: dominator on July 25, 2009, 08:09:03 PM
T3/4 hybrid.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 25, 2009, 09:56:30 PM
what trim? how big of t3/t4?
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: dominator on July 25, 2009, 11:49:11 PM
Search t3 turbo on ebay. There are tons of them,cheap too. T4OE
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: ipsd on July 25, 2009, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: dominator;283811
Search t3 turbo on ebay. There are tons of them,cheap too. T4OE
And maybe use it for parts! Find a real turbo shop not a CHEAP EABY KNOCK OFF TURBO! I've been running mine from turbocity for 8yrs now and no problems. As far as trim were talking about the AR rating of the compressor side. I'm running at T3-T4 AR60 spools just a hair slower than a stock T-3. That is with an unported- head,intake,exhaust mani.
Stuckman
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 26, 2009, 02:43:37 AM
i found a turbonetics .60trim with a ceramic ball bearing.do you think with a header will it be full spool around 3500?
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: Tbird232ci on July 26, 2009, 09:26:55 AM
First off, what header are you using? When did you have it tuned up last? Is your cam timing correct? Is your ignition timing correct? How is your boost controller set up?
From looking at your pictures from the lounge, it looks like you've got a T3.
I'm amazed that no one even suggested looking over the basics and just started telling him to throw parts at it.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: dominator on July 26, 2009, 10:31:55 AM
I don't know about the reliabilty of the ebay turbo's but until someone actually has one and comes forward and says something bad about it from actual experience don't believe the hype,need proof. I was told the same thing about my 50 dollar cat fluid dampner but when i asked for proof on the corral not one person could step up so i bought it and it's been just fine going on 3yrs. The ebay turbo's are the exact same trim .60. He stated above it spools eventually to 18psi but it lags greatly which to me says to big of a turbo(not enough exaust flow) just like how ron described his. If it runs fine,doesn't buck or fall on it's face then th plugs and timing are fine(but a timing check should be done as you just bought the car). How can you tell by a pic what size turbo he has,i can't unless it's close up.. They all pretty much look the same.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: bhazard on July 26, 2009, 10:33:12 AM
Right a volvo turbo should spool faster than our own T3's.
Something is wrong in the setup.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 26, 2009, 02:34:42 PM
not sure of the header. i just changed plugs, wires, cap and distributor. i was told the cam timing is set at 0, not sure how to tell if the ignition timing is right, i have a inline boost controller but just bought a manual one off ebay. i looked at the cheap turbos on ebay but everyone i looked at said 8PSI, im not sure if that means its only good for that much boost or what.like this one right here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-Turbo-Turbocharger-w%2f-wastegate-V-Band-+-Timer_W0QQitemZ200282151511QQcmdZViewItem
well, my t5 turbo was made for volvos with 5 cylinders i believe.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 26, 2009, 02:49:13 PM
oh when i went to go get exhaust quotes i got a good look at my exhaust, its bad!! stock main piping, 3"cat that is more the 2 feet long, Ypipe, "2 piping running to 2 magnaflow lers then 2" running all the way out back. i think that might be another reason why my turbo cant spool...
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: 32VFoxBird on July 26, 2009, 09:21:12 PM
you need a single 3" exhaust BAAAAD. do that first, then look into. replacing the turbo.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 26, 2009, 11:14:08 PM
okay, that sounds right to me! hopefully be getting exhaust done within a month or two
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: Tbird232ci on July 28, 2009, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: dominator;283846
How can you tell by a pic what size turbo he has,i can't unless it's close up.. They all pretty much look the same.
I'm no expert on Volvo turbos, but I highly doubt when clocked to mount to the factory intercooler, the bolt on inlet, which is relatively unique to Fords, would point in the factory direction.
Cam timing, ignition timing, restrictions, improper wastegate settings, vac line configuration and boost controller configuration can, and will effect spool time. If the wastegate isn't close fully, you will eventually reach your desired boost, while overspinning the turbo and creating too much heat.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: ipsd on July 29, 2009, 01:28:40 AM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;284291
I'm no expert on Volvo turbos, but I highly doubt when clocked to mount to the factory intercooler, the bolt on inlet, which is relatively unique to Fords, would point in the factory direction.
Cam timing, ignition timing, restrictions, improper wastegate settings, vac line configuration and boost controller configuration can, and will effect spool time. If the wastegate isn't close fully, you will eventually reach your desired boost, while overspinning the turbo and creating too much heat.
Ah much to learn ! Only the 83-86 2.3t's in birds/cougars came with a T3 with the bolt on . These did not come factory with a inter cooler unless you bought the Motorsports kit. They had a Hard pipe and some even had a FINNED cooled pipe witch is the old pipe with Fin on it for a heatsink. The 87-88 with the IHI turbo has a round outlet. Then also the Mustang SVO's back in its early days came with a T3 with a round outlet for there smaller than the later 87-88 turbo coupe inter cooler. Then lets talk about clocking the 83-86 T3 with the bolt on . Easy as pie. Loosen up the front housing and spin her around. Lines up slicker than snot!LOL Then to get it to connect to the inter cooler no problem. There is several ways to do it. Make and bolt on adapter or buy one on EBAY. Cut the factory pipe and use that or grind the off the turbo housing and NOW its round, or even just get a mustang SVO front housing and bolt that on. Then as for telling what turbo you really have you need to forget about looking whats outside and find out what is inside. Just like you they could have changed things up so head over to turbo ford and dig through there turbo ID guide. Then how would a T5 that is much larger and takes more force to make it rotate make boost faster? The less mass you have to spin the easier it is to make it move. The whole idea of the T3-T4 hybrid is your still turning a T3 but just slapped a T4 hot side on it. Kinda spools like a T3 but that even slows the spool time. What you think your gonna get with a T5 much larger everything! I'm sure that extra cylinder the VDub helps to spool that puppy.
Stuckman
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 29, 2009, 02:05:45 AM
i'll check the cam timing and ignition timing then and get a 3" exhaust. i just put a new boost controller on it. havent ran it since though. i'll take a look at my turbo and see if the is round or rectangled. i know that the couplers that connect the turbo to the intercooler is bigger, he gave me the stock one.
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: quicksilver on July 31, 2009, 11:55:29 PM
ok i just the lagging problem by just taking out the inline boost controler and putting in a manual one but now no matter how i put the new tubes or how i put the t connector in, i hit over boost, i can have it at the lowest or highest boost and i cant control my boost, any ideas? broken boost controller maybe?
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: Tbird232ci on August 01, 2009, 09:23:40 AM
Quote from: ipsd;284332
Ah much to learn ! Only the 83-86 2.3t's in birds/cougars came with a T3 with the bolt on . These did not come factory with a inter cooler unless you bought the Motorsports kit. They had a Hard pipe and some even had a FINNED cooled pipe witch is the old pipe with Fin on it for a heatsink. The 87-88 with the IHI turbo has a round outlet. Then also the Mustang SVO's back in its early days came with a T3 with a round outlet for there smaller than the later 87-88 turbo coupe inter cooler. Then lets talk about clocking the 83-86 T3 with the bolt on . Easy as pie. Loosen up the front housing and spin her around. Lines up slicker than snot!LOL Then to get it to connect to the inter cooler no problem. There is several ways to do it. Make and bolt on adapter or buy one on EBAY. Cut the factory pipe and use that or grind the off the turbo housing and NOW its round, or even just get a mustang SVO front housing and bolt that on. Then as for telling what turbo you really have you need to forget about looking whats outside and find out what is inside. Just like you they could have changed things up so head over to turbo ford and dig through there turbo ID guide. Then how would a T5 that is much larger and takes more force to make it rotate make boost faster? The less mass you have to spin the easier it is to make it move. The whole idea of the T3-T4 hybrid is your still turning a T3 but just slapped a T4 hot side on it. Kinda spools like a T3 but that even slows the spool time. What you think your gonna get with a T5 much larger everything! I'm sure that extra cylinder the VDub helps to spool that puppy.
Stuckman
I'm sitting here laughing at you, because you have no idea the amount of knowledge and experience I have in the turbo ford world. Every turbo you mentioned, I have had at least two on my cars. Blew up two IHI's, ran a T3/T04B V-trim hybrid, ran a non-watercooled Thunderbird T3 with a .63 a/r. housing and SVO compressor housing with an ATP inlet housing, run a Precision SC50 on the car. The only turbo I never knew anything about in this conversation is the T5.
Quote from: ipsd;284332
The whole idea of the T3-T4 hybrid is your still turning a T3 but just slapped a T4 hot side on it. Kinda spools like a T3 but that even slows the spool time.
Incorrect. It's a T3 turbine side and center section with a T4 compressor side. Both the T3/T04B and the SC50 I ran started to make boost at nearly identical time, the difference was when they "swung" into full boost. The T3 was much quicker to make full boost, but the hybridshiznit much harder, and maybe 500 rpms later.
Also, the you are talking about is the DISCHARGE . The intlet, or intake , is the one on the front of the turbo, where the VAM hose typically connects to. Much to learn huh?
Title: boost problem :(
Post by: daboss351 on December 13, 2009, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;284790
I'm sitting here laughing at you, because you have no idea the amount of knowledge and experience I have in the turbo ford world. Every turbo you mentioned, I have had at least two on my cars. Blew up two IHI's, ran a T3/T04B V-trim hybrid, ran a non-watercooled Thunderbird T3 with a .63 a/r. housing and SVO compressor housing with an ATP inlet housing, run a Precision SC50 on the car. The only turbo I never knew anything about in this conversation is the T5.
Incorrect. It's a T3 turbine side and center section with a T4 compressor side. Both the T3/T04B and the SC50 I ran started to make boost at nearly identical time, the difference was when they "swung" into full boost. The T3 was much quicker to make full boost, but the hybridshiznit much harder, and maybe 500 rpms later.
Also, the you are talking about is the DISCHARGE . The intlet, or intake , is the one on the front of the turbo, where the VAM hose typically connects to. Much to learn huh?
Its amazing to me that YOU of all people were challenged on your knowledge on here.... Even I know that you are one of the more, well id go as far as saying one of the most knowledgeable guys on here with that motor.
Quicksilver, how did you route your lines and the boost controler in?? Sounds like you should take some pictures close up of the turbo, the vac lines, etc. so they can better help you out.