Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Dougy_Fresh on June 25, 2009, 04:26:54 AM

Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 25, 2009, 04:26:54 AM
what are the numbers stamped on the back of a stock HO cam? i helped my brother put an F cam in his 88 Mustang (still SD) and it runs exactly the same as it did before, no surging, no driveability difference. we are wondering if maybe it had an aftermarket cam to start with.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Haystack on June 25, 2009, 05:03:34 AM
IF it doesn't sound like this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoRW50mLnxI
Then your brother got screwed. It should have a noticably loapier sound to it. Also, it is not a speed density friendly camshaft either.
Title: HO cam
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on June 25, 2009, 10:44:28 AM
This is what is stamped into the back of the HO cam I just gave to Vinny.  I measured the Lobes and with a 1.6 rocker they measure out to 0.444 so its definitively a stock HO.  Perhaps your Idle is set too high and you cant hear the loap?  This is the back end of the cam (opposite the timing gear).

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1387/s7300316large.jpg) (http://img31.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s7300316large.jpg) (http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/s7300316large.jpg/1/w1024.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img31/s7300316large.jpg/1/)
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 25, 2009, 12:07:06 PM
Quote from: Haystack;279630
IF it doesn't sound like this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoRW50mLnxI
Then your brother got screwed. It should have a noticably loapier sound to it. Also, it is not a speed density friendly camshaft either.



it has F303 stamped in the end of it.


the came that came out looks nothing like the one in the pic. the only numbers on it are "08" and there are two dots and a notch.
Title: HO cam
Post by: 86XR7project on June 25, 2009, 04:11:08 PM
Quote from: Dougy_Fresh;279667
it has F303 stamped in the end of it.


1. Anyone can stamp letters into the end of a cam, I hope he bought it new.

2. If it doesn't idle like that vid the cam isn't what he/it/you say it is.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Live Fast on June 25, 2009, 05:31:58 PM
Sounds like he got stuck.
I got a B303 cam in my mustang and I can tell a big difference. But then again I have a few more mods done to it.

Did he buy the cam new?
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 25, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
no it was used.

any way u go about it i ended up with a HO cam.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Live Fast on June 25, 2009, 05:44:40 PM
Thats one thing I wouldnt buy used unless I knew for sure what it was. Cant really tell what it is by looking at it.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 25, 2009, 06:00:37 PM
the car is starting to lope a little, but it's like the computer is not letting it...or the iac is keeping it idled up.
Title: HO cam
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on June 25, 2009, 07:30:06 PM
What rpm is it running at?  What is your base idle speed set at?  if its idling around 1100 it won't lope.  What does the butt-dyno say?
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 25, 2009, 07:32:52 PM
he says it picked up some on top and lost a little off the bottom, based on the butt dyno.

i think its idleing at 1000-1100, we cant get it to go much lower
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on June 25, 2009, 07:36:19 PM
Should be able to go 180mph now, huh? lol :mullet:
Title: HO cam
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on June 25, 2009, 07:48:21 PM
Get the engine warmed up.  Disconnect your Idle Air control solenoid. Then adjust the screw  for the throttle stop.  Do your rpms come down?  I am not sure what a SD computer will do with a F303 cam in it.  I think they run rich.  Sooty exhaust?

Seems like alot of effort to stamp F303 on a stock cam.  Also, did you pick it up from his house?
Title: HO cam
Post by: V8Demon on June 25, 2009, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;279735
Should be able to go 180mph now, huh? lol :mullet:



(http://users.ncable.net.au/~bryanw/200mph.jpg)

:hick:
Title: HO cam
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 25, 2009, 08:52:33 PM
If it's SD you aren't going to be able to idle a "F" cam below 1100 and keep it running... It'll just load up and eventually die...
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 26, 2009, 09:44:50 AM
it's not in my car, it's in his mustang. i'm putting the cam that came out of his mustang in my car as soon as my buddy gets me his HO computer from his dad's house.
Title: HO cam
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on June 26, 2009, 09:54:18 AM
I got one for sale if he comes up dry.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 26, 2009, 11:26:29 AM
he aint gonna pull it back apart to put another cam in.

it's starting to change, i think maybe the computer is trying to compensate or something....

it's starting to lope and driveability is getting a LITTLE worse, but it's still not bad.
Title: HO cam
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on June 26, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
MAF or Megasquirt time!
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 26, 2009, 11:46:03 AM
he's gonna MAF it if it gets bad.

he has a guy thats gonna give him the whole setup cause its no use to him cause he carbs all his stangs.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on June 26, 2009, 06:58:28 PM
MAF swap is so easy, it's just not even fair to those who haven't done it...I bought a reman ECU from my local parts store and still came in at less than $150 for everything...so it looks like hell, but it was dirt cheap.
Title: HO cam
Post by: 86XR7project on June 27, 2009, 08:39:39 AM
Why would you want to stay speed density? Especially if you want a mod friendly car?
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 27, 2009, 10:32:22 AM
everyone downs speed density, but yet they have never tried it. they just automatically go MAF because they think you have to.

there are fast speed density cars with no computer tune. you just have to know what you are doing to make it run right.

back before MAF, they were tuning these cars with a timing light and a fuel pressure regulator.
Title: HO cam
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 27, 2009, 12:24:26 PM
I was running the combo in my sig on SD and it ran ok. I converted to MAF and it runs 1000% better than it ever did with SD. It used to buck/stall at times when it was cold and I could never get it to idle right. The only way SD is happy is with the stock cam. If you keep the stock cam you can change the heads and intake and it should run *ok*. The problem that people run into is that when you go adding heads/intake to SD is sometimes you need bigger injectors, which SD can't handle.

There is a reason everyone (including myself) switches to MAF from SD: it does make mods easier and keeps driveability. If SD was ok for big modifications don't you think we would have kept it ;)
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 27, 2009, 05:04:10 PM
i'm just trying to get my t-bird running right, which means i basically am going to finish out the HO conversion and call it good for now and maybe start bracket racing it (wont matter how fast it is as long as it's consistant)

i'm either going to get a 4 eye bird or stang to make my new DD. it'll either be carbed or MAF.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on June 27, 2009, 06:21:09 PM
For the past 4-5 years, I've been Mr. Speed Density.  I wanted NOTHING to do with MAF.  My car ran okay after the 351 swap, but drivability was lacking a little, it would NOT high idle when it was cold, it wouldn't stay running on initial start-up and when you hammered down it would do all sorts of strange things...like thunderjet302 said...1000% better after MAF swap.

Sure, SD cars can be made fast...but ONLY with a tune...who has money for $300-$600 trips to the dyno to have their car tuned?...and if you change ANYTHING, they have to be retuned again.

Good luck either way,
Don
Title: HO cam
Post by: 86XR7project on June 28, 2009, 09:22:22 AM
All in all the speed density is NOT mod friendly. Its not expensive to convert I would at least keep it in mind rather than blow it off.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on June 28, 2009, 01:38:06 PM
we are both going MAF when we come across good deals on the parts.
Title: HO cam
Post by: V8Demon on June 28, 2009, 02:06:55 PM
Quote from: 86XR7project;280027
All in all the speed density is NOT mod friendly.


No; it's not low vacuum friendly....

Most aftermarket cams aren't gonna give you the vacuum at idle needed for a problem free SD setup.

I've seen plenty of larger head/cam/intake and forced induction SD setups....
Title: HO cam
Post by: blackcougar71 on June 28, 2009, 05:28:27 PM
couldn't you add a vacuum pump and that would fix your idle problem when using a larger head/cam /intake or forced induction on a sd setup?
Title: HO cam
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 28, 2009, 07:46:12 PM
You could, but assuming increased airflow from heads etc, unless the F/P is increased or has larger injectors, it'd be lean at WOT... With larger inj and/or more F/P, it'll likely be rich on part throttle at lower rpms...
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 02, 2009, 03:00:40 PM
speed density with f-cam, idleing, imagine that. video done with cellphone, so it sucks.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=59723336
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 02, 2009, 07:39:40 PM
It sounds INCEDIBLY unhappy.  Speed density will allow some interesting cams to idle and rev...probably is they run rich at idle, go full rich too soon and you end up going lean as the RPM increases.

Just mass air the thing...it's stupid cheap and easy.  That sure doesn't look like a GT40 intake...looks like an Explorer intake.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 02, 2009, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;279759
If it's SD you aren't going to be able to idle a "F" cam below 1100 and keep it running... It'll just load up and eventually die...


it will idle all day long at 8-900
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 02, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;280702
It sounds INCEDIBLY unhappy.  Speed density will allow some interesting cams to idle and rev...probably is they run rich at idle, go full rich too soon and you end up going lean as the RPM increases.

Just mass air the thing...it's stupid cheap and easy.  That sure doesn't look like a GT40 intake...looks like an Explorer intake.



it runs great actually. he is going MAF, one day, but not now.

an explorer intake IS a gt40 intake my friend. theya re the same, just the outside is cast different
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 03, 2009, 05:46:42 PM
An Explorer intake IS NOT the same as a GT-40 my friend.  The GT-40 intake flows more and will support more power than an Explorer/Cobra intake.  Not a guess, a proven fact.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 03, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
well then i guess evry person who i have ever seen or heard say anything about them is a liar.
Title: HO cam
Post by: vinnietbird on July 03, 2009, 07:39:27 PM
The Explorer,Cobra,and GT-40 all flow very close to the same numbers.Not enough difference between them to really matter.The Cobra and Explorer are cast versions,the GT-40 is a tubular intake.They all share the same lower intake.The Explorer doesn't have the provision for the ATC sensor,the Cobra and GT40 do.No other intake is the GT40 except the GT40,although internally,they are nearly identical.I'm using the Explorer intake right now.
Title: HO cam
Post by: jcassity on July 04, 2009, 04:53:29 AM
Quote from: blackcougar71;280061
couldn't you add a vacuum pump and that would fix your idle problem when using a larger head/cam /intake or forced induction on a sd setup?


wow
go engineer that>easy. integrate it>hard
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 04, 2009, 01:19:13 PM
Quote from: Dougy_Fresh;280870
well then i guess evry person who i have ever seen or heard say anything about them is a liar.


wow, right to instant dick mode, huh?  There is a difference, and if the people you talk to don't know...well that's too bad for them.  The cast explorer/cobra upper will NOT flow as much as the tubular GT40 uppper. 

How about you try not to be an aggitator, and take the advice of people who know.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 04, 2009, 02:18:04 PM
i'm not trying to aggitate anything, and what makes you think you know more than me?
Title: HO cam
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on July 04, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
They're not saying they know more than you, but these guys really know what they are talking about. Most of 'em have been around these cars longer than you and I have been around, and spent many days and months researching and applying their ideas to these cars, there is no point in arguing who is right/wrong. This forum is not a competition of who knows more, they are just trying to give you FACTUAL advice. And that is that... A gt-40 and explorer intake are different.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Haystack on July 04, 2009, 03:18:01 PM
explorer and gt-40 intakes are very close. The tubular intake is better and alot more expensive. As far as price goes, I would buy a new chrome cobra upper rather then a tubular upper.

It wouldn't bother me to call explorer stuff gt-40. At that point your splitting hairs. Its like calling a 302 a 4.9 liter, even though that is what it is.

Your buddies mustang will idle if you put MAF on it.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 04, 2009, 03:39:53 PM
it idles now, all day long if he wanted it to
Title: HO cam
Post by: V8Demon on July 04, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
There IS a downside to the tubular GT-40 manifold......There aint a lot of meat on it to port.....
Title: HO cam
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 04, 2009, 07:14:36 PM
Quote from: Dougy_Fresh;280986
...what makes you think you know more than me?


...your previous claims of going 10,000,000 mph in a stock T-bird...:laughing:.

Most people think the cobra/explorer/gt-40 upper intakes are all rediculously close....and they are in design and they'll all make a little different horsepower on the same lower...the fact of the matter is, the LOWER intake is the restriction.  So, stepping up from a cobra/explorer upper to a GT40 tubular upper won't be much of a gain unless you have a well ported lower.

And, as V8Demon stated, you don't have much of any room for porting...whereas a cast piece has plenty of room for porting.  I actually PREFER the cobra/explorer upper...I was just trying to inform you that there IS, infact, a difference between the cast and tubular pieces.
Title: HO cam
Post by: Dougy_Fresh on July 04, 2009, 08:35:01 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;281009
...your previous claims of going 10,000,000 mph in a stock T-bird...:laughing:.


that subject is not allowed on this forum. keep it out of my thread.
Title: HO cam
Post by: V8Demon on July 05, 2009, 07:34:45 AM
*sigh*

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w219/dimmel_dimplebottom/thread_sucks.jpg)

Seriously, how about just listening to advice since you ask for it.  Seems you like to ask questions and get mad when you get the answers because they are the correct answers and not the ones you want.

Have you hooked up a code scanner to that f-cam equipped SD car?  I have a feeling you might have a code that mentions something about the adaptive fuel limit.  Fwiw, that code will not trip the check engine light.