:flame:
Here's the survey question. Both of my T-Birds..'88's are a/c challenged. My "hooptie" T-Bird just needs freon, R12 vs R134, whereas my newly aquired '88 T-Bird needs compressor/clutch and assesories. My overall goal is to a/c in both cars before I "burn up"!
So with that being said.....should I..
1. Buy the new Ford HR980 a/c compressor and clutch then use R134 refridgerant
or
2. Buy the new Ford HR980 a/c compressor and clutch then use R12 refridgerant
BTW I had got the website http://www.acpartsguys.com and they make or recondition the HR980
Unless you completely remove/flush all the old r12 oil, you cannot go with r134 period without destroying the new compressor. If the a/c systems are dry, you will have to replace the accumulator and possibly the orifice tube as they go bad also. If the old compressor went out, it likely contaminated the entire system and must be flushed either way. Backward flush the condenser, flush out the evaporator, and lines, replace the orifice and accumulator, and replace the compressor. Use the right amount of oil in the new system.
r12 is dropped in price lately and can be obtained relatively easily compared to a few years ago. Stick with the better performing r12 is my recommendation.
That seems to be the agreement of most of the a/c (ford savvy) techs in my area! They tell me to stick with R12. I will probably have to go with mostly new parts. Both T-Birds are dry and the a/c hasn't been used for at least 1 year minimum.
Being new at the a/c maintenance..I can get new compressors and clutch. Can the orifices and accumulator be found for '87-'88 T-Birds? Should I get a new evaporator?
BAAAAHHHHH......Just get an new compressor and parts to repair the system on the second and add R134 and oil. Run compressed air through the system to remove as much R12 oil as possible, but screw the R12 crowd. They obviously read too much, believe in President Obama, and do not like money. R12 may be as high as $200/lb now, you could blow your entire system up 4 times before reaching the costs of a complete R12 recharge. R134 refer is a derivative of R12 coolant and the oils are very similar. There will be very few problems as long as the systems are sealed. The oils main purpose is to lubricate the compressor anyway. The orifice tube will be a little large so the coolant will not cool as well as when it has constant air flow across the condenser at road speed. When I did this conversion in 1999 I noticed the difference in town as when on the highway and parts for conversion were, Ford only, costing way too much. You may be able to scavenge an orifice tube from a 5.0 1995 mustang in the JY as it will be R 134 compliant. I'm not sure if it will even work since the bracket systems are completely different. Look at em to verify.
Agreed.
The first time i did the conversion on my 87 i did not do anything but replace the leaking a/c o-rings and charge up with 134 and oil.
Worked mint till my compressor clutch went out(nothing to do with the conversion,20yr old compressor).
Changed out the compressor with a 100 dollar reman ebay unit and all was well(not as cold as i would have liked but kept me cool).
I did end up changing the dryer just because it was old and more than likely full of moisture,now it works great with no problems.
Did the same on my 89sc without changing anything and it works even better due to the electric fan.
Do it,it will work.
Don't listen too the ford dealers in your area who just want to tax you.
Check again.
R12 dropped in price to nearly the same levels as r134. The stuff is legally sold to anyone on eBay now. r12 cools TONS better than r134 ever wish it could. I am using r134 now but if I were to install new parts today, I would go back to r12. We're also using an orifice tube for r12 - it isn't sized properly for r134 so there is efficiency lost there also. If you need more information on people who live everything a/c, these forums have quite a few knowledgeable people browsing them: http://www.autoacforum.com/
The forum software itself kinda sucks though.
Thanks for all the info!! It was 95 degree today (wow..where is the degree symbol on keyboard???)
I'm sure there's a shorter shortcut but years ago I was messing with keyboard key combinations and found that I liked the ALT + 2 + 6 + 7 + 9 + *** combination. Substitute *** for 1 and you get degrees. 5 and 6 are 1/2 and 1/4, 2 upside down exclamation mark. This combination has been burned into my memory since.
this is not true. you can charge an R12 system with 134a withough flushing the system but you MUST use ESTER OIL when converting to 134a. I do this all the time with no porblems at all. do some reading on the A/C forums. FYI I just converted my 79 cougar to 134a using this method and there are no problems and it blows ICE cold.
You can leave the mineral oil in the system and you'll most likely get a suitable result. However, doing so will result in a less than optimal system due to the volume the oil takes up. Mineral isn't miscible with R134a, so it will just hang out in low spots.
You can use PAG when you convert, but only if you flush extremely thoroughly or start with new (dry) system components. Unless the system is dry, I just recommend Ester oil (POE).
Also, R134a isn't going to blow ICE COLD in stop-and-go traffic in a hot environment. The Fox A/C system was borderline with R12, R134a puts it over the edge. Will a R134a system be adequate? Depends on what the owner expects.
I'm sure I'll never get to it (like all the other projects I want to do), but I have always wanted to compare system efficiency of R12 vs R134a in our cars while swapping in/out stock/piccolo/SN95 condensers.
[SIZE="1"] my procrastination![/SIZE]
I may have incorrectly stated my earlier post and left some information out, yes. Using ester, you had better make sure you know exactly what is going into the system, along with alert anybody that ever touches your a/c system in the future. You don't just add oil into a system with some already in there and expect any good results, which I would want in Texas. The oil already in the system will be contaminated with chloride residue which causes acyl chloride when "mixed" with r134/PAG. The system may "work" and perhaps not "optimally" as JeremyB posted, but I would not recommend leaving any of the old oil in the system to anybody. You may be able to get by with ester if you MAKE SURE the r134 you are adding contains NO polyalkaline glycol in the canister but most small canisters in the parts store do to help restore "lost oil". All the ones at my local Autozone, Schucks, and Napa contain I think 0.5oz of one of the PAG's.
I would still stick with r12. The system was built for it and it's a more efficient refrigerant. Both refrigerants are illegal in the US to vent to the atmosphere and both can be purchased easily. Besides needing slightly more r12 in the system and costing a little more than r134, anyone would be much happier with how well r12 works over r134. r134 may also be replaced soon so once again, our cars would be behind the times if they have a 134 conversion done.
Agreed :)
also to add. the A/C forums recommend using ester oil when converting from an R12 system.
Pfft, just thoroughly flush the evaporator, install a 97+ Cobra condenser, new compressor, new lines (they are all old and nasty by now anyways), new orifice and new accumulator, then install the r134. Basically this is a new a/c system though, only reusing the discharge line if $100 on a new one doesn't sound good :p It would work fairly well though, besides the odd orifice. It will cool about as good as r134 is capable.
I believe you can adjust the pressure sensor to cutoff differently to help get into r134's ideal territory.
When I converted the '93 Grand Marquis to 134A because of a internal compressor fire(that's a story in it's self), I cleaned and flushed the condenser and evaporator, then added ester oil and replaced everything else... That was early in '03, still blows nice and cold... I did find out except for the orifice and pressure switch, all other components were the same as in '94 when the R134 became mandatory...
My Bird??? Well it has R-12 circulating through it's veins... Been blowin' almost ice cold since Cat Jam '02...
as a certified heating and air tech any time you change freon in a system from one type to a differnt type its best to remove all the old oil and flush the system with nitrogen to get the best results. and yes you should change the orifice tube and pressuse switch to match the proper freon .