Any reasons for zero oil pressure in a 2.3 other than bad oil pump?
I just got my TC back together after a year of it sitting torn apart. Starts and runs but no oil pressure :(
Really dont wanna pull the motor back out.
Didja check it with a real oil pressure gauge or are you relying on the one in the dash? If you're going by the dash one, get a real one and test for oil pressure (do this before driving the car, of course). Also test the gauge operation by pulling the wire off the sender and grounding it. The gauge should go to high when grounded.
If you check with a real gauge and really do have no oil pressure it could be a cracked, blocked or leaking pickup tube (causing the pump to suck air instead of oil). If the engine has been apart, it could even be a missing pickup tube (don't laugh, a guy I worked with did that to a Chevy 3.1 V6) or missing or defective O-ring.
Is the oil pump driven by the distributor in the 2.3? If so, it could be a missing or broken oil pump ddrive shaft as well.
Does it also make a weird metallic sound after running for about 10 -15 min? and idle weird?
The valve train will "raise Hell" on a 2.3 with no oil pressure, at least with a slider cam, only takes a minute or so to wipe one...
Did you install the pump drive and prime the pump beforehand???
without having to repeat what thunderchicken said, what i remember about the 2.3 is the pan gasket material(and other sludge) clogs up the the oil pickup but you never mentioned how long it was sitting around. just a thought...
are you sure the wire on the pressure sender just didnt get knocked off, or the sender broke from you putting the motor in(assuming you just dropped the motor in) ?
its in the back under the intake manifold on the drivers side of the block if i remember correctly.
you left something out when you reassembled it, again just a thought.
you cant trust the factory guage since its basically an buttstuffog idiot light, go to walmart and get the three guage thingy for about 12 bucks(comes with a bunch of fittings)
also, since i have to ask, would you happen to have a fram oil filter on it?
now i dont use fram but what are you guys so anti-fram?!?! lol
fram oil filters are alot like wet toilet paper. The innards can cloge the inside of your engine. There isn't really a whole lot of filtering going on there.
Theres definately no pressure as there was a lot of top end racket. I confirmed by pulling the feed line, it was dry. I actually ran the engine like this for a while. Got way ahead of myself in excitement. It has a roller cam swap so hopefully its okay. If worse comes to worse I have a good stock slider setup. Just hope the bottom end and turbo are okay. Dont ask why I didnt confirm oil pressure before dropping the motor in.
The anti-drainback valve also seals against cardboard so it leaks all the dirty oil back into the engine. It's also a big cause of start up knock.
Here's the oil filter study.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html
The oil pump drive is 8mm(5/16") on the 2.3s... You can pull the dist and confirm the drive shaft is in place... Also you can make you up a drive and try spinning the pump with a drill to see if you can build pressure... Don't know if a common allen hex key will be long enough when cut down... Should be able to drive the hex with a 5/16" socket...
or he could find a 91-93 mustang in the junkyard and c00ch the distributor shaft thingy that protrudes from it to prime your oil pump with a drill(dont recall the exact name, when you see it you will know what i mean)
it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Impact on the aux pulley bolt should turn the pump too, right? Either way, the pan has to come off, so I might as well save the time looking around the dizzy hole for a missing gear and just get that pan off.
A impact would probably just hammer the bolt till it wrings off... Takes a surprising amount of power to turn a oil pump at more than a few RPMs...
You're right about that - I remember rebuilding the 3.8 in my '91 and priming the pump with a power drill. Almost took it out of my hands when it suddenly built pressure...
bhazard: If you're going to use any power tool to turn the aux shaft, use a drill. Like Tom said, an impact will likely just break the bolt off.
I do remember the shaft being really easy to turn with the impact when I put the bolt in the pulley. Could that indicate a problem with the pump?
Well it will spin easy with no oil pressure... You sure the drive shaft from the dist is in place, or you you didn't forget to install the pump??? Did you prime the pump before it was installed??? They won't pump air...
If you have a tank you can put a couple quarts of oil and 20-30 lb of pressure into, you could likely re-lube the entire engine and maybe prime the pump... Connect it to the oil pressure sending unit port, and let it push oil back into engine and back down to the pump... Use thin oil like 5-20 so it will flow easily...
Everything should be in place. Its a used engine that was pulled from a very reputable member of this board prior to him sping his car due to rust. The internals were oily so its not like it was all torn apart. The motor did sit on a stand for almost a year after I bought it from him.
I had the shaft pull out of one when I pulled the dist and fall in the pan... Didn't know it till I started it up and it "raised Hell"... I inst another shaft leaving the first in the pan...
It can't be that hard guys. When I built my last 2.3 I pull the gear off a spare dizzy. Stuck it in the hole and turned it with finger power. Made 10psi in just a few turns. Then if you really want to spin it you can rent a tool to turn the oil pump with a drill.
Good luck
Stuckman
So you were actually able to install the shaft through the distributor hole?
Yup Think I used a 8mm socket, or maybe a rubber hose... Hell just super glue it into the bottom of the dist, won't hurt anything... Clean out all traces of oil with some brake clean or similar... Could also use a light coating of silicone, but that would have to set up a few hours....
There should be a washer type thing on the Dizzy drive to hold it from falling out when you take the oil pump out. Might have to leave that off to sneak it by the aux shaft or pull the aux shaft.
Stuckman
Ill check into it this weekend. But I dont recall anything being in the pan when I took it off so I doubt the shaft fell out.
What kind of pump could I hook to the sender to prime the engine with?
Long Allen wrench a straight one. Insert in drill. Turn on drill just make sure you are you are gonna turn the right direction and pull the trigger. With the motor sitting for that time I wonder if the pump lost its prime? Wonder if dumping oil down the dizzy hole would help prime it again.
Stuckman
Exactly what my dad said. First thing im gonna do is confirm that the shafts actually there, if it is ill drain the oil and dump it in the dizzy hole and try to turn the pump. I also would like to try pumping thru the sender fitting. If all that fails out it comes.
The pump could care less if you dump oil or piss on it... If it's lost it's prime, you have to get oil inside, not on it...
Makes sense, I think Ill take the feed line off the turbo and try to force oil through it.
Welllll I pulled the distributor out and well well, no oil pump SHAFT. But, at the same time, I cant get an allen wrench in there. It just hits something. Could I have a broken shaft stuck in there? Tried to get a small magnet in there but nothing is coming out.
Ummm I doubt it would be broken, likely tear the teeth off the dist or aux shaft before you break one of those little boogers... Double check the shaft size on the bottom of the dist, I'm 99% they are 8mm...
I now would be totally concerned about this.
it all depends on how much you have ran it. with zero oil presure, the only lub everything in there has seen is the assembly lube you used.
You might as well tear it open and lay in new bearings everywhere including cam. Rings are ok, cause they just get slung upon from the crank. Lifters/push rods and rockers are prob ok but I would run rotella in there for the rest of its life.
Well I didnt use assembly lube cause I didnt build this engine, as I said in my original post (I think) I got this whole engine from a member after he pulled it from his car. Lifters and pushrods and rockers are not okay because they dont exist :p
Anyway. As it turns out, the shaft was actually COMPLETELY missing. Whats f'ed up is that little locking ring that is supposed to hold it in was still laying in there. Only thing I can imagine is that the shaft was stuck to the bottom of the dizzy shaft when he pulled it (he kept his diz) and he was able to yank it out hard enough to pull that ring off the shaft. New shaft was $7 at the zoo.
Sooo all is well now, except... I think I did trash the cam. Theres still a good bit of noise from the top end. So my guess is I prolly trashed the bearings up there since they deal with the most friction.
At least the car is pretty much drivable though. Cam and followers and bearings in the top end is easier to replace than a total rebuild.
yeah, your village idiot reports to work sir:punchballs:
shows you how much i pay attention to the 2.3.
Yeah the poor thing never gets attention.
Does the RR cam use hydraulic lifters (or followers, or whatever you OHC guys call 'em)? If so you may have simply collapsed 'em from running with no oil pressure, and they may simply need to be pumped up again...
Im hoping thats the case.
The correct term for the 2.3 lifters are lash adjusters... Works same as a lifter but doesn't move, just keeps a constant pressure on one end of the rocker...
The correct term for the 2.3 rockers are followers... I believe they do roughly the same thing :p