Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: Roehm on May 24, 2009, 10:56:00 PM

Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Roehm on May 24, 2009, 10:56:00 PM
Hello Everyone,

Just wondering how hard it would be to swap a 200 I6 into an 85' Cougar with a 3.8. Long ago I owned an 80' Mustang with an I6 in it and I know the Cougars are similar to the Mustang. I know I will have to switch over to carb and I am unsure if the tranny will work. If there is anything else ya'll can think of that would be great. Also should I consider one of the larger I6 engines 250 or 300.

BTW I have considered just dropping a 302 in it but my other Cougar already has that. Just wanna do something a little different.

Peace,
Dan
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: HAVI on May 24, 2009, 11:03:05 PM
I've been looking for a BB capri, and was planning on trying to do the 200 Aussie crossflow trick, and see if it worked.  But alas, I didn't.  Nevertheless, the 300 won't likely fit.  The 250 is a similar version of the 200 but is taller, and will probably require hood-work.  The 250 also has the small block bell pattern.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Haystack on May 25, 2009, 02:25:24 AM
300 i-6 has the sb bolt pattern as well. I am sure you could make a 300 fit, but god those things are long. Might have to stick with an automatic and move the shifter back a couple  of feet...

The motor mounts from a 200 i-6 should swap into a 79-93 mustang, or 83-85.5 cougar/bird k-member.

Overall, if you could find a dirt cheap rusted out 80's mustang with the engine and transmission, you could swap it out straight acrossed with probably few problems.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: the_intimidator03 on May 25, 2009, 07:03:00 AM
If you fab your own oil pan and motor mounts u may be able to use factory  K-member... if not id suggest the early 80-82ish inline six k-member as it is unique for the straight six.  Just my 2 cents... oh yeah... i know where an inline six stang with 4 speed is :))
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: CoogarXR on May 25, 2009, 10:17:07 AM
It would probably be easier to find a fairmont or zephyr with the I6. It's a fox, and I think that was the default motor for those cars. Just about every fairmont I see has the I6. A few days ago I posted a fairmont with a dead I6 I saw on craigslist in our leads section.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 25, 2009, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: the_intimidator03;274202
If you fab your own oil pan and motor mounts u may be able to use factory  K-member... if not id suggest the early 80-82ish inline six k-member as it is unique for the straight six.  Just my 2 cents... oh yeah... i know where an inline six stang with 4 speed is :))

Yup a I6 uses a unique K-member... You'll need to do some fabbin' if you can't find a parts car...


NOW... Without a power adder or maybe a good free flowing head the 200s are turds... I've owned several 200/auto Fairmonts and a '80 Stang with the 200 & 4speed... It was better than the NA 2.3 Stangs, but that's about all I can say for it... Stick it in a vehicle totin'  another 700-800Lbs and it wouldn't even qualify as a turd... You'll likely need the transmission as well, AFIK the 170/200/250 bolt pattern is all to it's self(you need to verify this)...  Possibly a Granada/Monarch 250cu in wouldn't be a terrible choice, but I read somewhere, Ford stated they were too tall to fit in the Fox engine bay...

Forget the 300 was even mentioned, way too tall to fit in a Fox engine bay without a scooped hood... Prob have to cut the firewall as well or set the radiator in front of the support...
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Roehm on May 25, 2009, 10:13:34 PM
Thanks for the advice folks, it is really helpful. I am very adamant about doing this engine swap. Actually after making this post I have already planned everything out for this car. Hopefully most of you will like what I have in mind for this project. I will make a post about it in the near future. Thanks again.

Peace,
Dan W
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Chuck W on May 25, 2009, 10:24:28 PM
The later "BB" 200 block (with the starter low on the pass side), uses a 2/3 SBF bell pattern.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: FLSTCI71 on June 05, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
Just my $.02, but if you go ahead with this, do it with your eyes open. Projects like this always sound cool because they are different. The downside is afterwards. Even assuming you figure everything out and it actually makes it to the road. When you try to sell it, you're going to have to give it away. I know you will say you already thought of that, I am just re-enforcing that fact. The reason you see so many 5.0 swaps is because so many guys like them. When you're done, you may have a "belly button" car, but you also have a large group of potential buyers. If you swap an I6 in, I am sure you will get lots of looks at the hamburger stand and guys on forums like this will think it's neat, just don't expect a lot of interest if you go to sell it. I am not trying to be a jerk as I think swaps like that are very cool. I just wouldn't want to buy it when it's done. Having said all of that, I am happy to see ANY Ford engine going in a Ford instead of a SBC (yuck). Whatever you decide, good luck!!
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: 32VFoxBird on June 05, 2009, 02:57:52 PM
I think it would be a cool project with a 70mm turbo and a blow through carb.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: bhazard on June 05, 2009, 07:11:11 PM
Dont look for *ANY* power unless you find an aussie head for it. Our heads have the intake/exhaust manifolds cast right into the head. And they are TINY. Engines were made for everything BUT power.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Sick88Tbird on June 06, 2009, 05:21:30 PM
this is something I had always wanted to do also...but with an aussie cross-flow head and EFI from a MAF Taurus.  You should do it...then get bored of it and sell it to me for pennies on the dollar...lol.

Good luck, let us know how it goes,
-Don
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Chuck W on June 06, 2009, 05:30:28 PM
(http://www.turbochuck.com/images/Tbird/X-Flow/Xflow_6.JPG)

No mods have been done yet, and the head is just sitting on the engine for storage at the moment, but I see no issues in the mods required to make it work.

The BIG expense, since I want to turbo it, is forged pistons...$700-800 for a set.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Sick88Tbird on June 06, 2009, 06:08:40 PM
it Chuck...do we have to live vicariously through you ALL the time? lol
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: gumby on June 06, 2009, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;276218
it Chuck...do we have to live vicariously through you ALL the time? lol


seems that way, dont it?
one of us should clean that head though......:rollin:
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 06, 2009, 08:41:58 PM
Nice thing about the 200 & 250 is they have seven main bearings...
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Chuck W on June 06, 2009, 09:00:48 PM
Quote from: gumby;276223
seems that way, dont it?
one of us should clean that head though......:rollin:


Yeah, you guys are slackin' :beatyoass:
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 07, 2009, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: Chuck W;276228
Yeah, you guys are slackin' :beatyoass:


I stopped being a shop gofer 40 years ago, you'll have to find some one else...
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Roehm on June 11, 2009, 12:44:38 AM
I still plan to go through with the swap. If the car goes anywhere its going to my some, I never really look to make money on things. I just enjoy having them while they are around. Next week all of the main components of the swap will be coming home. Getting everything from a Fairmont.

 I have done hours of planning a research long before I made my first post. I'm confident in what I am going to do. I've got the build planned out in my head, even a nice little mental picture of what I want the car to look like. One of the few times the whole project has come together nicely in my brain.

While I am very much a Cougar/T-bird nut, I am also a big fan of BMW. Being as the 80's 3 series is a big inspiration for this project. I'll throw up some pics as soon as I can if ya'll are interested. Thanks for the help btw.

Peace,
Dan
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: rbohm on June 12, 2009, 04:04:12 PM
Quote from: bhazard;276085
Dont look for *ANY* power unless you find an aussie head for it. Our heads have the intake/exhaust manifolds cast right into the head. And they are TINY. Engines were made for everything BUT power.


Quote from: Chuck W;276214
(http://www.turbochuck.com/images/Tbird/X-Flow/Xflow_6.JPG)

No mods have been done yet, and the head is just sitting on the engine for storage at the moment, but I see no issues in the mods required to make it work.

The BIG expense, since I want to turbo it, is forged pistons...$700-800 for a set.


you dont need an aussie head for the ford six to make power these days, and you dont need to make mods to the block and aussie crossflow head either, check out http://www.classicinlines.com and look at their aluminum head. it was designed to handle 400 normally aspirated horsepower, if you can make a 200 put out 2 hp per ci. mike has a few intakes for this head as well including a 4bbl intake a 2bbl intake and an efi intake, with others in the works. mike also carries a line of clay smith cams, and is willing to get clay smith to custom grind cams for little or no extra cost. mike also has a double roler timing chain set for the 200, as well as many other parts. check out theat site as well as the forums at http://www.fordsix.com lots of good information there in both the forums and the tech section including the required mods to install the aussie crossflow head on a US block.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Chuck W on June 12, 2009, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: rbohm;277325
you dont need an aussie head for the ford six to make power these days, and you dont need to make mods to the block and aussie crossflow head either, check out http://www.classicinlines.com and look at their aluminum head. it was designed to handle 400 normally aspirated horsepower, if you can make a 200 put out 2 hp per ci. mike has a few intakes for this head as well including a 4bbl intake a 2bbl intake and an efi intake, with others in the works. mike also carries a line of clay smith cams, and is willing to get clay smith to custom grind cams for little or no extra cost. mike also has a double roler timing chain set for the 200, as well as many other parts. check out theat site as well as the forums at http://www.fordsix.com lots of good information there in both the forums and the tech section including the required mods to install the aussie crossflow head on a US block.


Uh, yeah...no.  Not for $1,500+.  The mods are minimal and I have parts sitting here.  I will most likely be hitting them up for forged pistons though.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: HAVI on June 12, 2009, 06:09:19 PM
Agreed.  Looks great in theory, as I've read those threads, but the cost would get you a V8 in there just as well.  Some work and the Aussie crossflow should work.  I'm waiting patiently to live vicariously through Chuck :D
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: rbohm on June 12, 2009, 07:54:49 PM
i understand about the cost of the head, it isnt a high volume head like small block chevy or ford heads are. and since you already have the crossflow head, then use it. it is a good head. that said most people dont have the wherewithal, or the needed skills to adapt the crossflow head to the US block, and the heads are getting harder to find. try finding an aussie 250 2v head which would be a direct bolt on to the US block, and would accept the intake and exhaust that mike sells. anther alternative is the argentine head, but you need the intake and exhaust manifolds that go with the head as they will not interchange with the US/aussie heads.

be sure to check out the tech articles on adapting the crossflow head to the US block if you havent already. jack(mustangsix) has already done the conversion and it does run quite well, be even he says he doubts he would do it again. and remember that you will have to source the cam from australia because no one here in the US sells crossflow cams.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: Chuck W on June 13, 2009, 03:14:36 AM
Yeah, I'm aware of a few of the parts I need to source from OZ, but in the grand scheme of things, that is a non-issue.  I have a couple more possible contacts in OZ for corralling parts, so that should help.

I also have an intake and fuel rail (that TB EFI does NOT appeal to me in the least) and I plan on building an exhaust manifold as I plan on hanging a turbo off it.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: rbohm on June 13, 2009, 12:52:21 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;277430
Yeah, I'm aware of a few of the parts I need to source from OZ, but in the grand scheme of things, that is a non-issue.  I have a couple more possible contacts in OZ for corralling parts, so that should help.

I also have an intake and fuel rail (that TB EFI does NOT appeal to me in the least) and I plan on building an exhaust manifold as I plan on hanging a turbo off it.


sounds like you have it handled. i think you will like the end result.:cheers:
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: HAVI on December 01, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
Any progress, Chuck?  I'm starting to think about this for my Fairlane.
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: FLSTCI71 on December 01, 2009, 10:36:54 AM
Quote from: HAVI;300777
Any progress, Chuck? I'm starting to think about this for my Fairlane.

Gee Scott, you really do have automotive ADD, flathead truck, Turbo Coupe, Fairlane, plus your house.... I think you need a couple more projects. :D
Title: Straight 6 swap?
Post by: HAVI on December 01, 2009, 10:38:17 AM
Try convincing my wife of that, lol.