Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: jpc647 on May 18, 2009, 12:45:39 AM

Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: jpc647 on May 18, 2009, 12:45:39 AM
So I know where I can get a low mileage lincoln Mark VII with the H.O. pretty cheap. Are there any differences between the engines? Is there a year preference/ corellation between easy of transfer into an 88 tbird with a 5.0 SO?

I'm interested in an HO conversion, and was curious how hard the lincoln one would be. What would I need thats not on either of the two cars?
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 18, 2009, 03:42:44 AM
As long as it's an HO it will go right in, grab the computer to if you don't have one from a stang.
I think the years were 88-92.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Lightningbird on May 18, 2009, 06:27:24 AM
If you use the Lincoln as the parts supplier....the swap to a Speed Density HO conversion would almost be a plug and play. Drop motor in.....Plug in MK VII computer......Turn Key......Just be weary the headers will have clearance issues with the drivers side motor mount on the T-Bird K-member. You may be able to remedy that by swapping the MK VII K-Member in there and have the better motor mount system of the mustangs. There will be a little more vibration due to the types of motor mounts.....thats it.

I am not positive the MK VII computer will work in the T-Bird but I do believe it will. I know the wiring harness of the MK VII is not a desirable harness cause it has electric heated ball scratchers run by the computer.....but I think the computer would still plug in and function fine.

I would use the tranny and all since it has the low ratio 1st gear in the MK VII LSCs.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: V8Demon on May 18, 2009, 08:12:26 AM
Quote
I would use the tranny and all since it has the low ratio 1st gear in the MK VII LSCs.

The ratio is the same as all other AOD's 2.40
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 18, 2009, 08:58:06 AM
Quote from: Lightningbird;272901
I know the wiring harness of the MK VII is not a desirable harness cause it has electric heated ball scratchers run by the computer.....


WTF is an electric heated ball scratcher?
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: vinnietbird on May 18, 2009, 09:11:04 AM
Plug and play,as stated above.Drop the tranny and engine in as a unit,plug in the computer,bolt on the Mark VII's H-Pipe,finish he exhaust from the H back,then drive it like you stole it.

The harness in the Bird will accept the computer as is,no mods.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: 85TBird5ltr on May 18, 2009, 10:09:34 AM
what year bird are you playing with?
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: jpc647 on May 18, 2009, 04:14:27 PM
1988 Bird. Its currently got a 1987 tbird 5.0 engine in it, with the 88 harness/computer.

It originally started as an 88 v6.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: massCougarxr7 on May 18, 2009, 04:26:08 PM
take it you went to that yard????? Itll be the best 180$ you can spend.......... you can also go the exploder route.......just a thought....
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: V8Demon on May 18, 2009, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: danzajax;272913
WTF is an electric heated ball scratcher?


I think what he's getting at is there are many different sensors on a Mark. ;)
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 18, 2009, 04:45:45 PM
I started with a 91 linc ho, pretty much everything was the same as the 5.0 sd.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 18, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
Swap the sensors if any are different on the Mark engine(I don't think they will be), plug in computer and ride...

The Lincoln AOD is approx 1" longer than the Bird/Coug version, your D/S may be too long to use that tranny... AFIK No wide ratio AODs, that's a 4R70W thing... The wide ratio components won't fit earlier AODs without doing some clearance work inside the case... I have heard there were some '90s vans that used a wide ratio AOD, but never seen proof...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: 85TBird5ltr on May 18, 2009, 10:11:25 PM
will that plug and play go with an 85 bird with a 5.0 to? or am i gonna run into some problems?
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Haystack on May 18, 2009, 10:41:20 PM
85 bird was not EFI. It should be CFI. You can always swap the harness for the dash and motor and then it would be bolt in. You can try to get the CFI faster, but unless your going from v6 to v8 parts, I'm not sure there are any real upgrades left after that.

If I were you, I would either buy a cheap cruddy 5.0 cougar from 86-88 for less then $300, or the harness from one. You can also modify, or use, a mustang harness. It is covered here many times, as well as on http://www.coolcats.net
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Haystack on May 18, 2009, 10:42:34 PM
Oh, go with the explorer motor. Really. The heads are better and so is the intake. Then swap all the front parts off of your motor onto it, unless you have alot lower miliage.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: jpc647 on May 18, 2009, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;272956


The Lincoln AOD is approx 1" longer than the Bird/Coug version, your D/S may be too long to use that tranny... ..


So should I use the regualr 5.0 tranny? Will it hold up to the extra power?

Quote from: massCougarxr7;272944
take it you went to that yard????? Itll be the best 180$ you can spend.......... you can also go the exploder route.......just a thought....


No I wasn't at the yard, I went to my Olds club meeting and there was a guy there driving an lsc that looked pretty rough. It only had 50k on the clock though. Is the exploror route using a whole explorer motor or then swaping the heads onto the HO? Whats better?
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 19, 2009, 12:25:16 AM
If the Lincoln is low mileage I believe I'd use that transmission... If your D/S is too long you can shorten the Lincoln tranny by swapping tail housings and tpuppies a little from the end of the shaft... Also note though, the shifter linkage will be different on the Lincoln tranny, you'll need to swap levers from the original transmission...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Lightningbird on May 19, 2009, 02:42:02 AM
Quote from: danzajax;272913
WTF is an electric heated ball scratcher?


I was just referring to the amount of electric doo dads on the Lincoln vs the T-Bird. I looked at one of those harnesses at the JY when doing the TC/5.0 conversion and my eyeballs almost jumped outta my head when I started looking at the number of wires in the harness. It was almost as robust at the TC harness.

As for the wide ratio gear set in the AOD....I thought it was standard practice for Ford to install these in the LSCs. I could be dead wrong and probably am but my Alzheimers has not quite taken effect yet and I did read that some where....I'll see if I can find it.

Tom is right, I did forget that the tranny was longer....
X2 on toms post for tpuppies the output shaft and changing the tail shaft housing. If you have a functional AOD in your ride now....leave it. It's gonna be the same. BTW the 8.8 in the Lincoln LSC is gonna be a 3.23 Track-Lok unit.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 19, 2009, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Lightningbird;273066
BTW the 8.8 in the Lincoln LSC is gonna be a 3.23 Track-Lok unit.

Not necessarily so, my LSC had a 3.23 open rear... Unlike the TCs, T-L was a option on those...

I believe all the LSC Mark IIX had the wide ratio tranny, but not the VII...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: jpc647 on May 19, 2009, 02:29:32 PM
So there is no difference between the AOD in the bird and the LSC? I wouldn't want to blow the tranny because it doesn't have the same internals as in the one from the LSC.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: V8Demon on May 19, 2009, 02:43:21 PM
Quote from: jpc647;273113
So there is no difference between the AOD in the bird and the LSC?


Tailshaft length, RPM rev-governor and PERHAPS the # of clutch disks in the trans and the number of teeth on the speedometer drive gear...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
You will always be on borrowed time with a 3.8 trans. Even a 5.0 trans with ponys behind it, probably won't last long without some help.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: ZondaC12 on May 19, 2009, 05:24:41 PM
Wanna respond to the engine route first....
 
If you have an H.O. definitely bolt the explorer intake and heads on....the explorer cam is garbage, the H.O. cam will work well with the other parts and give you plenty of power. Depends on the price of things I suppose. If you get the explorer motor as a whole it will be good but will be much better if you tear it down and throw in an H.O. cam.
 
And if you cant get say an AOD out of a 5.0 mustang (which would be the sturdiest one probably) make sure the trans is low-mileage and healthy overall, and get a Baumann RK-AOD shift kit, install it at the medium setting (or maxed out if youd like it to kick like a mule and bark tires all the time) setting and pull your TV cable out pretty tight for some snappy firm shifts and itll handle that motor okay. Im still at just H.O. spec but I drive this thing like a real u-know-what sometimes and the fluid has been cherry red for the last year and it hasnt lost *any* of its bite. I am a definite proponent of AOD's...ya just gotta help em out as previously stated. :D
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: softtouch on May 19, 2009, 06:17:02 PM
AOD Specs from the 84 shop manual.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 19, 2009, 06:23:15 PM
The 84 shop manual? That's really an old aod.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 19, 2009, 06:49:10 PM
The 3.8 Super Coupe AODs are the strongest... Guess what I run???

There are some F/E series AODs that are also excellent, but those are the longer versions...

BTW the '87 shop manual lists 5 forward clutches and steels for all 5.0 SEFI(HO & SO) and 5.8 transmissions... In fact all '87 listings are same for 5.0 & 5.8 trannys, 3.8 trans have fewer clutches...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Copperhead on May 19, 2009, 08:00:38 PM
I have an '88 Cougar XR7, and i have already dropped the HO(from '89 MKVII) in it, i just have to wire everything up. When i started i assumed the wiring harness from the Cougar wouldnt work with the HO because of all the extra sensors.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 19, 2009, 08:25:43 PM
A Mark VII engine has NO extra sensors... At most you'll find a sensor for the EATC system but that's also on some Birds and Cougs...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: ZondaC12 on May 19, 2009, 11:24:52 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;273162
The 3.8 Super Coupe AODs are the strongest... Guess what I run???
 

YES yes now I remember...knew there was something else. Interesting that is is stronger yet has fewer clutches.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Masejoer on May 20, 2009, 12:13:01 AM
The supercharged motors don't count in that picture of the AOD differences. I believe they have MORE clutches than the 5.0 AOD's (both mustang and tbird variants). Not sure which ones but they're there.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Lightningbird on May 20, 2009, 02:21:35 AM
your 3.8 tranny will be fine. Spend a little cash on a good shift kit as stated before and it will live forever. A SC tranny would be best, but I bet that it is only a few hard part differences like valve body calibration, governor RPM differences, and a servo or two.....it defeats mass production standards to create a tranny that only works with one engine.

That said a Lincoln HO engine will virtually swap in the car with little or no work. There is no extra sensors to make the engine run, it all the other high dollar Lincoln .....hence electric heated ball scratchers, power heated windshield wipers, variable ratio steering bearing retainers......blah blah blah....I'm sure you get the picture.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 20, 2009, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: ZondaC12;273153
Wanna respond to the engine route first....
 
If you have an H.O. definitely bolt the explorer intake and heads on....the explorer cam is garbage, the H.O. cam will work well with the other parts and give you plenty of power. Depends on the price of things I suppose. If you get the explorer motor as a whole it will be good but will be much better if you tear it down and throw in an H.O. cam.
 


If you go that route remember that the 97.5-2001 Explorers have GT40P heads (which I run) instead of the regular GT40s. You'll need the FRPP headers for them as well as the stock HO headers won't work. You'll need ChuckW's mounts or you'll have to grind the stock motor mount down to get the headers to fit (which is what I did).
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: V8Demon on May 20, 2009, 06:08:14 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;273182
A Mark VII engine has NO extra sensors... At most you'll find a sensor for the EATC system but that's also on some Birds and Cougs...


The engine doesn't, but what about the body harness?  Considering it rides on bags, isn't that part of the body harness?

Not to mention the different fuel sender for a full digi dash as opposed to an buttstuffog/base dash cluster.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: 85TBird5ltr on May 21, 2009, 10:25:25 AM
Yeah mines an 85 v-8 cfi. and the two guys that are hell bent on me swapping it said they have a mustang harness and computer. At first he forgot i didnt have a roller motor. He said just swap the upper and lower intake then he remembered i have cfi. this might be a fall project
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: vinnietbird on May 21, 2009, 04:36:06 PM
You really need a T-Bird/Cougar harness.The Stang harness is different.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: 88BlueBird on May 21, 2009, 04:40:57 PM
I converted my 88 from V6 to V8.  You will need to know how to read wiring schematics in order to do this conversion. I would get an EVTM for the year of the car and the year of the wiring harness if you can, it makes life a lot easier.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Sick88Tbird on May 21, 2009, 04:43:19 PM
In response to the Explorer cam being junk...it absolutely isn't...it'll make peak power right about the same RPM as an HO cam, but makes great low end torque...Explorer cam is definitely worth it in an AOD car and it'll still run when you add a little more air through it...makes peak power at 4700 on the '96-'97.5 GT40 headed explorer/mountaineer and peak power at 4200 on the later '97.5-'00 GT40P headed explorer/mountaineer...the P heads make more torque and power in mild combinations, but with increases in RPM, the earlier GT40's really shine.


Good luck,
Don
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: jpc647 on May 21, 2009, 08:38:00 PM
thanks for hijaking, lol.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Sick88Tbird on May 21, 2009, 08:40:59 PM
...Didn't realize giving somebody good proper information was considered "hi-jacking"...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: jpc647 on May 21, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;273591
...Didn't realize giving somebody good proper information was considered "hi-jacking"...


It's not a big deal, but it was originally my thread about an 88 car and then we totally swapped directions to talking about an 85. lolo
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Sick88Tbird on May 21, 2009, 09:16:48 PM
Ah, you were referring to the other guy a few posts up...that makes more sense...lol.
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 22, 2009, 07:59:37 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;273353
The engine doesn't, but what about the body harness?  Considering it rides on bags, isn't that part of the body harness?

Not to mention the different fuel sender for a full digi dash as opposed to an buttstuffog/base dash cluster.

All the harness' is totally different on a Mark VII... If anyone wants to try using them in a Bird/Coug, well you have bigger ones than me and I have no issue withing most wiring jobs...

On the '86 I had, the harness traveled down the driver side inner fender, across the radiator support and back up the passenger side through the fire wall to the EEC... This is a harness that's nearly as large as your wrist and has the engine, lighting system, ABS and auto level system intertwined... The Injector harness came off between #1 & #2 cylinders and connected with the 10 pin plugs at a opening in front of the strut tower...

A TC uses two harnesses, one for the engine control and a second for the ABS and ride control system... They are slightly intertwined(EEC test plug is in the ABS/Ride harness), but nothing that can't be worked around... As far as I'm concerned, except for possibly suppling some plugs, a LSC harness is totally useless...
Title: Lincoln HO Conversion
Post by: Copperhead on May 23, 2009, 01:34:25 AM
ok, ill just use my original cougar v8 harness instead of the lincoln's, thanks