well the TC has been running great for a long time but i decided to check the timing just for something to get me out of house work and lo and behold the thing was sitting directly on TDC. So, with the spout off I adjusted the timing to 10 degrees, and holy cow, the car started pouring blue smoke out the exhaust. I was afraid Al Gore was going to come arrest me it was so bad. It settled down a bit but it is still bad...mainly at idle it will just start belching smoke. If i get on it hard ...no smoke. At first I thought rings, but advancing the timing wouldnt all of a sudden blow out rings would it? I then thought valve stem seals, but now I think something is causing it to suck oil at idle. Any ideas, i know this isn't easy to diagnose over the internet but I'd appreciate any imput! And no I already put it back at zero!:barf:
Is it blue or black smoke?
blue.
Sorry, I just saw it in the op that it says blue. It could be an oil line for the turbo or something along those lines.
I highly doubt that adjusting your timing would cause the rings or valve seals to blow.
i just had a chance to dig into the car somewhat and i found fresh, wet oil in the intercooler on the turbo side and down the intake of the turbo its self. It seems to be pumping it from the tee on the neck of the turbo inlet. I have a brass tee in place of the stock metering valve. One end goes to the wastegate and the other end goes to the vacuum port on the turbo(I have a manual boost controller in line). This set up has been in place for several months. Any idea why it is sucking oil all of a sudden after i advanced the timing? Is the turbo bad? could a vacuum leak elsewhere be causing it? it seems to be worse at idle cuz if i zoom off i dont get any smoke.
Just a guess but increasing the timing will produce more vacuum at idle, possibly highlighting a problem that was already in the making... Also it's a known issue, if the correct Motorcraft PCV valve isn't used, the crankcase can be pressurized under boost and blow oil into the intercooler...
Definitely check the PCV valve. If it's bad replace it with the correct Motorcraft piece. Since the car is smoking at idle with the timing in the correct place, reset the timing to 10 degrees, and start diagnosing what's wrong with it. I highly doubt your pulling oil in through the vacuum tee on the intercooler. More that likely, its coming in through the valve cover breather line that goes to the turbo. Clean all the oil out of the intercooler, turbo inlet, and the hose from the VAM to the turbo (its probably full of oil). Put it all back together, and plug the fitting in the turbo inlet from the valve cover breather. You can run the line from the valve cover breather into a container (16ounce pop bottle works great) temporarily. Take the car for a drive and see if the smoking stops. If the problem is the breather line, the smoke will stop after a short while (you'll just be burning off what made it into the intake). Alot of times the breather gets clogged with and stops trapping the oil and let's it pass instead. You can clean them out. This is just a place to start. If this doesn't work, you'll have to dig deeper. Keep us informed. I'm assuming the car still has the stock IHI turbo on it?
I haven't had the issue at idle before, only under boost. I do feel that TurboCoupe5.0 is on the right track with the increased vacuum and PCV valve.
The hot setup is to run a second PCV valve and a catch can. First, I removed my charcoal canister that's on the passanger side of the car, below the air intake. I re-used the bracket, and mounted the catch can to it. Then I pulled the oil separator/valve cover breather out of the valve cover, and removed the metal line and fittings off of the turbo inlet. I replaced the valve cover grommet with an angled one from the help section of the auto parts store, and took a second PCV valve and popped it into the valve cover. Then I ran one hose from the new PCV valve to the catch can, and then a hose from the catch can to the turbo inlet. You'll have to get a barb fitting for the turbo inlet, which most auto parts stores will have in their little fitting section. I used 3/8's line and never had an issue after that.
I only have a picture of where I mounted the catch can:
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Tbird232ci/DCP_1272.jpg)
thanks for the help...my PCV is an autolite i believe, so I will change it out and see what happens.
Well I replaced the PCV with a Motorcraft one and the smoking quit for a bit and then started again. I took the intake hose off from the VAM to turbo and oil was puddled in it. I cleaned that out plus residuals in the turbo outlet/inlet housings and the intercooler itsself. I doesnt smoke at idle anymore but when you start it up or decelerate it throws out a ton of smoke. It doesnt do it at full throttle acceleration but it will go nuts when i down shift to stop. Is that the valve stem seal bad? The vacuum lines seem good, but could the black box thing on the block be bad....i dont even know what that thing is called.
Pull the VAM hose and check for oil in it again. If there is, you've got a blowby problem. The breather on top of the valve cover, and the on on the drivers side of the block can be removed and cleaned out. I don't believe either one is available new anymore. The one on the block can be a real pain to get off. If it fights back, you may have to remove the lower intake.
It's a oil separator to keep the PCV valve from sucking up oil from the crankcase... They have a fiber mesh and can become plugged with sludge, but usually don't cause a sudden problem...
The VAM hose is full of oil again and it smokes as bad as ever. The intercooler is full of oil again as well. I also pulled the lines off the manual boost controller and those are full of oil as well. It seems to be pushing oil by the oil filler cap. Man what a mess. UPDATE...i just pulled the tube from the valve cover breather to the
turbo housing and there is no oil and it's not obstructed. Same with the PCV hoses...there is no fresh oil on the PCV valve. It all seems to be getting sucked through the manual bypass hose from the wastegate actuator.
Where is the other end of the boost controller hooked up? Are you using the fitting on the turbo compressor housing?
The waste gate actuator has no oil source, so any oil in those hoses is coming from somewhere else.
Is in your turbo in good order? Been making any funny noises? I would start to suspect you have an issues with either the turbo oil seals, or a drain back issue with the turbo. Have you done anything in the area of the drain line? Check and make sure the drain line is running downhill, with no uphill at all.
That is the weird part, cuz the ONLY thing I have done is bump the timing from TDC to 10 degrees, where it started billowing smoke and hasn't stopped since. Now that you mention it though, when I shift gears it sounds like i have a small leak...almost like I have a blow off valve. I put it on jacks and there is oil dripping from the weep hole(i guess that's what it is) on the bottom of the actuator. I replaced the original compressor housing fitting with a brass "t" because the original was rusted and broke off. I now have a line running from the actuator to the new tee and the other end of the tee has the manual boost control. The other hose goes to the closest outlet to the turbo inlet housing and I capped the other outlet(the one on the VAM side of the turbo housing). The car was running perfect until I bumped the timing up. You thing the increased timing might have blown some weak seals in the turbo?
Well, if you put the timing back to TDC, does it still smoke? It's probably just a strange coincidence between the smoking and the bump in timing. Bumping the timing that much will change the vacuum though.
The oil coming out of the weep hole in the wastgate actuator is just what's been blown into the line from the turbo.
That much oil in the compressor side of the turbo is caused by either a bad turbo oil seal, a turbo oil drain line issue, or a valve cover breather issue.
Did you ever plug the breather line location on the turbo inlet and run the breather line into a temporary catch can? Do that and see what happens. That would eliminate one of the possible sources. Clean the intercooler, vam hose, and the turbo inlet elbow, plug the breather inlet location in the inlet elbow, and run the breather into something like a 20oz pop bottle. Take the car for a short drive, get on it a few times, and see how much oil is in the pop bottle when you get back. Be sure to put the bottle somewhere it won't melt (ask me how I know). If it's empty, or has very little residue in it, and there is once again oil in the compressor side of the turbo, it's time to look at the other possibilities.
If the pop bottle has alot of oil in it, you've got a breather/blowby problem.
rog, thanks. I pulled the intake off this weekend to remove the seperator. It was full of so MAYBE, fingers crossed that was the problem. I had to order intake gaskets so they will be in today. When pulling the intake, I totally forgot about the coolant! Luckily it was just water and Royal Purple water wetter.
So, just say it is blow-by...what would cause that and where would that kind of pressure come from?
Blow by is when combustion pressure gets past your rings, which is why its called "blow by"
The catch can setup I described typically helps with this situation. I had a similar issue, I ran the setup I described, and it completely stopped smoking, other than start up.
ok, I got it all back together and it is still smoking even with the catch can. This time however, I have fresh oil coming out of the hole on top of the turbo and in the VAM hose. The manual boost control lines are clear and there was nothing in the catch can. So I guess that leaves what...the turbo seal? How do I fix that? Could an oil line be plugged?
What hole on top of the turbo are you refering to? Do you mean the outlet that goes to the intercooler? The drain line could be plugged, but I seriously doubt that. Too much oil pressure to the turbo could cause the oil also. But if you've done no work to the drain line or the pressure line, you can probably rule that out. I would have to go with turbo oil seals. How many miles are on that turbo? Everyone says rebuilding the IHI probably isn't worth it. Its just as cheap and easy to switch to a T3. I just did after the original IHI puked an oil seal. Let's face it, if you've got to pull the turbo, you may as well upgrade while your at it.
well i swapped in a new IHI(well used but new to me) and put everything back together. Now the problem is it wont idle. I can keep it running with the throttle but it sputters and dies as soon as i let off. I have checked the fuel, electrical connectors and vacuum lines but I cant find anything wrong. The bottom hose of the intercooler has some small splits, but I dont think that's it. Any ideas? Help!? :D
it was running okay before i swapped the turbo(aside from the smoke anyway).
Sounds like you have a vacuum leak somewhere. Make sure the hose from the VAM to the turbo is on properly. They like to hang up when you're putting them on. Run your hand underneath by the VAM oulet and the turbo inlet to make sure they're on correctly. Also go over everything twice and make sure you hooked all the lines back up.
Jangus the Genius...the hose was hung up on the very bottom. thanks for that. It was nearly 100 degrees in the garage so I wasnt in the best moods for details. Oh, and my wife says a BIG thanks as well since I've been driving her car all week!:D
oops...
No genius involved. Just been there, done that. Hows it run now?
runs very nice. it actually has a noticeable kick, far more than the other turbo seemed to have.
Is it possible that the oil seals in the turbo are leaking. My car made a tone of smoke off idle when the seal in the turbo went out. Full throttle still smoked but not near as bad.
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/superdavesds/Cougar/img048.jpg)
Yeah, it's possible. Looks incredibly similar to what my 88 did when the seal finally went completely out. Talk about a mosquito duster!!
i guess bumping the timing up was the last straw in an already weak turbo seal. it's all good now though after a new turbo. Although my exhaust is cracked.:beatyoass:
Do you mean your exhaust manifold? Pretty common to get them to crack on the #3 exhaust. They rarely ever leak through the crack though. If it does, you can pick one up fairly cheap. If your going to swap yours out, I suggest getting the replacement one ported first. I've done it to mine, the one going on the sons car, and one other one for another guy. Time consuming, but worth it, IMHO.