Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 12:28:41 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 12:28:41 AM
Are these transmissions the same length? wondering if I need to be concerned about fitting issues.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Haystack on May 06, 2009, 01:50:20 AM
Post by: Haystack on May 06, 2009, 01:50:20 AM
if you did a two second search, or read two threads below this one.(http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19326&d=1241115533)
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 01:52:36 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 01:52:36 AM
Two threads below this is about a C5, not a C4. I understand it is a beefier C4, but from your picture we can see the C5 isn't listed, thus this post has more relevancy in my thread anyay :]
EDIT: I wonder if the 3" difference is a cause for concern. I'm sure it is, lol. Dealing with it will be interesting...new longer shaft perhaps?
EDIT: I wonder if the 3" difference is a cause for concern. I'm sure it is, lol. Dealing with it will be interesting...new longer shaft perhaps?
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 02:17:01 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 02:17:01 AM
Hah, never mind, after reading that entire thingy Isee they're virtually the same length. That's pretty odd considering how much bulkier the AOD is.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Lightningbird on May 06, 2009, 04:01:26 AM
Post by: Lightningbird on May 06, 2009, 04:01:26 AM
I did a C4 swap in 2004 after eating my 2nd AOD and it was really easy. The crossmember will need to be modified or using one from a T-5 mustang solves the issue. Everything else is good.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 05:44:22 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 06, 2009, 05:44:22 AM
How did you modify it? just hog the slots out further? Pix would be amazing, gonna search a bit and see if i can find an article on it
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Lightningbird on May 07, 2009, 03:59:47 AM
Post by: Lightningbird on May 07, 2009, 03:59:47 AM
Quote from: Grumbles;270858
How did you modify it? just hog the slots out further? Pix would be amazing, gonna search a bit and see if i can find an article on it
The setback on the cross-member is set by ford . The "tubes" that position the x-member are welded to the x-member to hold it into place. Grinding the welds and positioning the x-member in place with your C4 is best. Then just reweld the tubes. Easy as 1-2-3 when you look at the x-member. Sorry no pics cause the car is 9000 miles away.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 07, 2009, 10:32:31 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 07, 2009, 10:32:31 AM
Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure I understand. The crossmember in my T-Bird looks like it was designed to accept multiple different length transmissions. let me show you what I mean.
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2136/xmember.png)
It has slots that allow the mount to be like 2" in difference. Make sense? What are you telling me I should do? Will the transmission not fit into this slot?
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2136/xmember.png)
It has slots that allow the mount to be like 2" in difference. Make sense? What are you telling me I should do? Will the transmission not fit into this slot?
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 07, 2009, 04:18:15 PM
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 07, 2009, 04:18:15 PM
The elongated holes might not be enough. Most people shift the position of the mount.
Remove.
Grind the welds.
Install.
Shift the mount into the desired position and tac.
Remove, Re-weld, re-install.
Remove.
Grind the welds.
Install.
Shift the mount into the desired position and tac.
Remove, Re-weld, re-install.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 07, 2009, 04:50:52 PM
Post by: HAVI on May 07, 2009, 04:50:52 PM
but with a completely custom drivetrain, locating the C4 is more difficult. So my question is this: How far does the piece slide? I'll be doing this before I even install my C4. Because I need the C4 to locate the engine. 2 11/16" ?
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 07, 2009, 05:04:07 PM
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 07, 2009, 05:04:07 PM
I would probably Locate your engine where it will fit/clear the radiator and be relatively above the engine mounts. Then position your C4. Just my $0.02.
Just measure the bracket. it will slide about the full travel of the tubes. Leave it loose (un-welded) till you have your engine where you like it.
Just measure the bracket. it will slide about the full travel of the tubes. Leave it loose (un-welded) till you have your engine where you like it.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 07, 2009, 05:57:17 PM
Post by: Grumbles on May 07, 2009, 05:57:17 PM
THose diagrams were extremely helpful. thanks :]
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 07, 2009, 07:51:14 PM
Post by: HAVI on May 07, 2009, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: danzajax;271102
I would probably Locate your engine where it will fit/clear the radiator and be relatively above the engine mounts. Then position your C4. Just my $0.02.
Just measure the bracket. it will slide about the full travel of the tubes. Leave it loose (un-welded) till you have your engine where you like it.
I could leave it loose, I s'pose, thanks. I have to make my own motor mounts, thus the issue. So far I have it closely located, but thought I could verify them with the C4 located correctly. oh well.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 07, 2009, 07:52:59 PM
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 07, 2009, 07:52:59 PM
I can measure my T5 bracket. It should be in about the same place as for a c4. Let me know if you want the measurement.
-dz
-dz
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 08, 2009, 10:50:25 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 08, 2009, 10:50:25 AM
That would be helpful. Thanks in advance :]
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Lightningbird on May 08, 2009, 07:56:54 PM
Post by: Lightningbird on May 08, 2009, 07:56:54 PM
You can buy a brand new x-member from summit by FRPP that is a replacement for the T-5 and will properly locate your C-4. The C-4 will be all the way at the leading edge of the elongated holes. If you want to modify your existing x-member due to costs, the cut, locate, weld method must be used.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 08, 2009, 09:25:55 PM
Post by: HAVI on May 08, 2009, 09:25:55 PM
Quote from: Lightningbird;271307
You can buy a brand new x-member from summit by FRPP that is a replacement for the T-5 and will properly locate your C-4. The C-4 will be all the way at the leading edge of the elongated holes. If you want to modify your existing x-member due to costs, the cut, locate, weld method must be used.
I assume #397-M-5059-A ?
I may go this route for the dual exhaust anyway. Unless someone has used a stock crossmember and dual exhaust.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 08, 2009, 10:38:01 PM
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on May 08, 2009, 10:38:01 PM
Post up a "WTB T5 double hump mount" on corral.net.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 09, 2009, 09:33:46 AM
Post by: HAVI on May 09, 2009, 09:33:46 AM
Here's why I was somewhat confused. The top pic is the '87 XR7 302 aod crossmember. It's slid all the way to one end. The lower pic is from my '88 Tbird 3.8 aod crossmember. It's centered.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Lightningbird on May 10, 2009, 04:13:05 AM
Post by: Lightningbird on May 10, 2009, 04:13:05 AM
You should be able to use the 83 x-member. It looks similar to the T-5.....is it double hump? if not just modify the 87.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 08:04:50 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 08:04:50 AM
The difference in the 3.8 & 5.0 crossmembers is surprising, but that's proof the two engines are located differently...
Guess I was lucky when I found a '87 Sport to use as my parts car when I did my 5.0 swap, everything fit with no issues at all...
Guess I was lucky when I found a '87 Sport to use as my parts car when I did my 5.0 swap, everything fit with no issues at all...
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 08:59:11 AM
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 08:59:11 AM
I thought it odd, too. I forgot to mention the XR7 was a floor shift, and the 88 3.8 car was column shift. Not sure if that mattered or not. There's a good 1.5" difference between the two, so I'll locate the engine, put the C4 in place, and fit both up in there, and see which is closer. Never can be an easy way, lol.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 09:51:17 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 09:51:17 AM
Column vs floor shifter should have no bearing...
Have you compared the drive shafts just for giggles???
Have you compared the drive shafts just for giggles???
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 10:01:33 AM
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 10:01:33 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;271496
Column vs floor shifter should have no bearing...
Have you compared the drive shafts just for giggles???
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 11:22:50 AM
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 11:22:50 AM
Driveshafts are 1" difference in tube length (47.25" vs. 46.25") with equal length slip yokes (5")
The measurement from one crossmember to the other is 1" as well. The 3.8 AOD has 1" to the front space, and .75" space to the back. The 5.0 AOD measured 1.75" space (zero" on the other end).
Now that I think about it, I wonder if the 8.8 vs. 7.5 differential would be a different length?
The measurement from one crossmember to the other is 1" as well. The 3.8 AOD has 1" to the front space, and .75" space to the back. The 5.0 AOD measured 1.75" space (zero" on the other end).
Now that I think about it, I wonder if the 8.8 vs. 7.5 differential would be a different length?
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: Grumbles on May 10, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
Post by: Grumbles on May 10, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
Uncle got me the FRPP Xmember for my birthday coming up here in June. Nice to have wealthy Relatives who are also car enthusiasts.
My Uncle's stang: http://www.kkpony.com/
My Uncle's stang: http://www.kkpony.com/
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 12:56:33 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: HAVI;271514
Now that I think about it, I wonder if the 8.8 vs. 7.5 differential would be a different length?
Nope, they use the same D/S... I have the one in my TC that was originally in the '87 Sport that had a 7.5"...
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 01:19:57 PM
Post by: HAVI on May 10, 2009, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;271523
Nope, they use the same D/S... I have the one in my TC that was originally in the '87 Sport that had a 7.5"...
OK, that tells me which driveshaft I have for which, since I didn't label either of them. Thanks!
I also looked closer at the 3.8 AOD, and the crossmember is different than the XR7 one, so it appears the XR7 one is already a double hump. Even though it (XR7) is spaced further back, I'll just remove the welds, move it all the way forward, and go from there. Yardwork is almost done, and so I can get going on this thing again.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 10, 2009, 05:09:00 PM
My '87 Sport had the double hump crossmember, it's also in the TC now... As is the shifter, all engine brackets and mounts, A/C compressor, wiring harness, fuel lines, etc, etc... About the only parts that aren't from the Sport, are the 140 speedo & tach(junk yard), engine(LSC) & tranny(Super Coupe)...
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on July 03, 2010, 11:42:58 PM
Post by: HAVI on July 03, 2010, 11:42:58 PM
Back to the tranny crossmember for me. I ground the welds, and moved the "tubes", and the C4 locates good. However, the C4 trans bolt space width is 2.75", and the crossmember hole/slot space width is 2.19" My C4 is from a 1976 Torino. I haven't tried it yet, but since the pad/mount bolts to the crossmember, and the tranny on each, if they interchange, that would solve the width issue without wallowing the holes/slots. Would that work?
BTW, I got the engine in, and want to locate the trans now, so I can see if I need to make anymore adjustments on the motor mounts. I have to "stretch" the lower mounts to make them align with the K-member. I'm not sure how much Chuck W mounts are allowed to move.
EDIT: I just read on clickclack, that the rubber mount interchanges, so I should be good to go.
BTW, I got the engine in, and want to locate the trans now, so I can see if I need to make anymore adjustments on the motor mounts. I have to "stretch" the lower mounts to make them align with the K-member. I'm not sure how much Chuck W mounts are allowed to move.
EDIT: I just read on clickclack, that the rubber mount interchanges, so I should be good to go.
Title: AOD - C4 swap, lengths?
Post by: HAVI on July 04, 2010, 02:51:56 PM
Post by: HAVI on July 04, 2010, 02:51:56 PM
I assume when swapping trans mounts, it includes using the spacer with the passenger side "barrel" ??