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General => Lounge => Automotive News & Fuel/Energy debate/discussion => Topic started by: Cougar5.0 on April 24, 2009, 08:13:44 PM

Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Cougar5.0 on April 24, 2009, 08:13:44 PM
The brand credited with originating the muscle car will no longer be part of GM's future, according to a source.

By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: April 24, 2009: 4:39 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is preparing to announce that the Pontiac car brand, once marketed as GM's "Excitement division," will be killed off, according to a source familiar with the decision.

An official announcement is expected Monday. GM spokesman Jim Hopson declined to comment on Pontiac's fate, saying the automaker has no announcements to make at this time.

...

2008 GM Vehicle Sales
Chevrolet    1,801,131
GMC    376,996
Pontiac    267,348
Saturn    188,004
Cadillac    161,159
Buick    137,197
Hummer    27,485
Saab    21,368
Total    2,980,688
Source:General Motors

...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 24, 2009, 08:23:30 PM
Sounds like the only companies in GM that are thought should survive are Chevy, Buick, Cadillac and GMC. There were some people saying the Saturn Sky would be switched to the Cadillac name sake, and possibly a few others to switch teams. I think GM is a sinking ship.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ether947 on April 24, 2009, 08:27:40 PM
So far it's just speculation...

http://www.freep.com/article/20090424/BUSINESS01/90424070

And from GM's website...
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=53902
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Cougar5.0 on April 25, 2009, 10:15:02 AM
I just heard a radio report stating this same thing.

This time the rumor might indeed be true. We'll see soon enough.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 25, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
Monday comes the official announcement.

*tick*    *tock*    *tick*    *tock*
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Grumbles on April 25, 2009, 11:34:48 AM
I'd kill Saturn first.  Followed by pulling out of Saab and dropping Hummer.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: mjbtbrd on April 25, 2009, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: Grumbles;269067
I'd kill Saturn first.  Followed by pulling out of Saab and dropping Hummer.


X2


I won't miss Pontiac either

GM is the epitome of corporate inefficiency big bloated with too many brands doing the same thing and selling the same car with minor variations.  Slim down and maybe they survive.  I only need so many chances to buy the same basic car with a different badge and slightly different skin.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 25, 2009, 12:02:23 PM
Anybody seen a Saturn lately?  Talk about boring.  I think GM had WAY too many brands to start with anyway.  And about Saab... I just noticed a few months ago that they made a Saab-badged Trailblazer clone... (like the Envoy, the late Bravada and Rainier)
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 27, 2009, 07:28:56 AM
Quote from: Grumbles;269067
I'd kill Saturn first.  Followed by pulling out of Saab and dropping Hummer.

They've already done that. All three are being sold or closed. Saab already has a number of potential buyers, and a consortium of Saturn dealers has joined with a private equity firm (think Cerberus LLC) to purchase Saturn. They will soon be an outlet for foreign made cars. This is where you'll see the Chinese cars.

And we'll find out today what the final word is on Pontiac.

Quote
GM is the epitome of corporate inefficiency big bloated with too many brands doing the same thing and selling the same car with minor variations.

The funny thing is, that is the exact relationship Ford has with Mercury.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: V8Demon on April 27, 2009, 09:38:37 AM
The worst thing to happen to Saab was their being bought by GM....

All the originality of that brand was flushed down the toilet.  I remember the old 900 turbos.... Very cool cars.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 27, 2009, 09:56:29 AM
Absolutely true. And they're going to keep on being GM clones for a few years yet. The Saab 97x and 92x are perfect examples of GM turning them into a Scandinavian Chevy and Subaru.


Well, it's official. Pontiac is dead.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/27/officially-official-gm-kills-pontiac/
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ether947 on April 27, 2009, 01:25:59 PM
So much for the "niche" brand. :( Hopefully they will retain, I mean... "re-badge" the Solstice and G8...
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 27, 2009, 01:39:44 PM
I heard the G8 could become the Chevy Lumina and the Sky may become a Cadillac.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: massCougarxr7 on April 27, 2009, 02:11:13 PM
wow,  better hold onto your gto's!!!! Theyll be worth a heck of a lot more now......
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 27, 2009, 02:31:17 PM
Nope. No pontiacs will survive. Holden will stop building the G8 for export by the end of the year (no RWD Impala) and the Kappa Solstice is dead as well, though we knew that nearly a year ago, not to mention the Vibe will not be making the move to Chevrolet dealers either.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 27, 2009, 02:50:14 PM
You sure? They wouldn't need to really retool anything. Europe and the middle east already has the Lumina.

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/12/2008-chevrolet-lumina-ss-24.jpg)
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 27, 2009, 03:02:59 PM
I'm sure.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g8-production-to-cease-this-year-with-no-pontiac-models-to-survive-beyond-2010.html


Pontiac G8 production to cease this year with no Pontiac models to survive beyond 2010
04/27/2009, 9:51 AM
By Drew Johnson

General Motors officially announced on Monday its Pontiac brand will be phased out by the end of 2010, but the marque’s brightest star – the G8 – won’t even make it that far. GM CEO Fritz Henderson announced earlier today the G8 sedan will be phased out by the end of this year.

According to Henderson, Pontiac’s relationship with Holden – GM’s Australian subsidiary and maker of the G8 – will end by the end of 2009. Henderson said production of the Pontiac G8 will wind down by the end of the year, with the automaker prepared to offer heavy incentives to get the performance sedan off dealer lots. News AU estimates the end of the Pontiac G8 will cost Holden more than $750 million in lost revenue.

Additionally, Henderson said GM has no plans to move any Pontiac models to other brands. That means the Pontiac Solstice will ride off into the sunset shortly after the G8, with the Vibe likely to be the last model standing in the Pontiac lineup. The Vibe is made at a joint-venture plant with Toyota, with the five-door wagon set to be produced through 2010. The Pontiac G3 — essentially a rebadged version of the Chevy Aveo — and the G6, a platform mate of the Chevy Malibu, will also be discontinued.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: V8Demon on April 27, 2009, 03:17:57 PM
More on the subject:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8021029.stm

Quote
After shedding Pontiac by the end of 2010, GM will focus on its Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC brands.
The firm also said it hoped to halve its debts by persuading bondholders to swap $27bn (£19bn) of bonds for shares.
GM also wants the government to swap half its current loans for a 50% stake.
The government has so far given GM $15.4bn in loans.
Shares in General Motors rose 24%, or 40 cents, to $2.09 after the announcement.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: shame302 on April 27, 2009, 04:08:41 PM
Quote
                                     wow,  better hold onto your gto's!!!! Theyll be worth a heck of a lot more now......
Doubt it but who knows. Hopefully when the smoke clears and things are in a more "normal" way lessons will have been learned, attitudes will change and American car manufacturers (as well as other big corporations) will keep them selves in check.

Ford at least is doing "well" comparatively. Reporting less of a loss than projected and getting a merit pin for "quality" products.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 27, 2009, 04:27:32 PM
Go Ford!
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 27, 2009, 06:56:24 PM
Actually, I think the Solstice coupes (more like Targas) will be quite a collectors item, since they'll only be in production for a year.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 27, 2009, 07:16:28 PM
So what does this leave... Chevrolet, GMC, Cadillac and Buick, right?
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 27, 2009, 08:11:23 PM
Right. The only ones that turn a profit. Well, Buick and GMC do anyway. I'm not sure about the other two. How bizzare is that?
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Haystack on April 27, 2009, 08:23:06 PM
I figured the would have killed buick over pontiac. I really dislike pontiac, but I dislike buick even more. Buicks all use totally different parts from the rest of the fleet as well.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 27, 2009, 09:07:39 PM
Quote from: Haystack;269430
I figured the would have killed buick over pontiac. I really dislike pontiac, but I dislike buick even more. Buicks all use totally different parts from the rest of the fleet as well.

Old people loves they Buicks... you can't imagine how many of them I see at the body shop I work at.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 27, 2009, 09:08:51 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;269303
The worst thing to happen to Saab was their being bought by GM....

All the originality of that brand was flushed down the toilet.  I remember the old 900 turbos.... Very cool cars.

You've obviously never worked on one ;) I had the joy of working at a Saturn/Saab/Isuzu dealership, and those old 900's were WS to work on. The only thing that was easy to do in them was the clutch (with the engine in backwards, the clutch was right behind the front bumper, and replacing it  only required the removal of a cover, step on the clutch, insert a tool into the pressure plate to keep it disengaged, unbolt the PP, slip the clutch disc out, and then bolt the PP back on, stick the shaft back in, remove the tool, reinstall the cover - it was an hour's job at the most). Their electrical systems were nightmares and the engines liked to eat head gaskets. The shop manuals were utterly useless - for a procedure such as replacing a head gasket the steps would be like:

1) Remove bolts
2) Lift head off engine
3) Replace head gasket
4) Reinstallation is the reverse of the removal

...If you were really lucky there'd be a picture or two.

They were pretty neat cars if you didn't have to work on 'em though...

Quote from: Haystack;269430
I figured the would have killed buick over pontiac. I really dislike pontiac, but I dislike buick even more. Buicks all use totally different parts from the rest of the fleet as well.
Buick is actually making money and gaining market share, especially in China, which is poised to be the next big market. It's filling the position Caddillac had held before (boring, luxurious FWD old people cars) and slots into the same market Acura does. Pontiac was pretty much redundant.

As for the G8: It has been a slow seller, so GM sees no reason to continue it. Had it been successful we'd probably see a RWD Impala, but nobody wanted 'em with Pontiac badges, so Chevy badges likely wouldn't move 'em any better. With 35MPG CAFE looming and everyone going on about global warming it was probably a wise choice anyway. The Volt makes a better ambassador for GM than the G8 (or a Chevy badged version) would have...
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Cougar5.0 on April 27, 2009, 09:36:54 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;269434
Old people loves they Buicks... you can't imagine how many of them I see at the body shop I work at.


My 72 year old dad drives a Mercury Marquis - he's NOT the only old person I've seen driving one of those :rollin:
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ether947 on April 27, 2009, 10:19:04 PM
On the other hand I just saw a Fusion Sport (http://"http://www.autoblog.com/photos/first-drive-2010-ford-fusion-sport/") on the road. Very nice! I'm glad they finally ditched those  chrome taillights.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 27, 2009, 11:26:10 PM
I'm not making a blanket statement saying that all old people drive Buick's... I'm just saying that the older generation of folks are definitely the ones keeping Buick alive.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 28, 2009, 10:03:08 AM
Every old person in Iowa owns a Buick, this isn't a mass generalization or an assumption. 99% of them really do own a Buick its weird.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: oldraven on April 28, 2009, 12:49:45 PM
I want a Buick so bad. It's just not one of the old people ones.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 28, 2009, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;269457
I'm not making a blanket statement saying that all old people drive Buick's... I'm just saying that the older generation of folks are definitely the ones keeping Buick alive.

...and that "older generation" is a rapidly growing demographic. There are lots of baby boomers getting to Buick age, many of whom have Buick money, which is why Buick is not being shiznitcanned.

Quote from: 86XR7project;269497
Every old person in Iowa owns a Buick, this isn't a mass generalization or an assumption. 99% of them really do own a Buick its weird.

No, that's not a mass generalization or assumption at all ;)

Pontiac's going away can largely be blamed on the dealerships. Every time Chevy would come up with some econobox (Vega, Chevette, Monza, Cavalier, Metro, Cobalt, Aveo) Pontiac dealers would demand an equivalent car to drive traffic to their showrooms. This is why we ended up with the Astra, T1000 (Acadian), Sunbird (J2000), Sunfire, Firefly, G5 and G3. The brand was diluted too far downmarket to ever be taken seriously as a "performance" brand.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: 86XR7project on April 28, 2009, 01:18:19 PM
Tell ya what come out here and tell me I am wrong.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 28, 2009, 03:32:50 PM
Hey I owned a Buick Century between the ages of 20 and 21 :hick:
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 28, 2009, 05:59:56 PM
My ex girlfriend's parents were only in thier late forties and THEY bought a Rendezvous.... the somewhat more luxurious, still-just-as-ugly cousin of the Aztek.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: Grumbles on May 01, 2009, 09:07:23 AM
I've lusted heavily after a Park Avenue Ultra for quite some time.  Maybe that just makes me a geezer at heart :o

Wait, no, I lust even more after an '06 6.0 GTO.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: V8Demon on May 01, 2009, 11:37:39 AM
The couple that used to live next door had a Rendezvous as well...Hes was in his 40's.  She was in her 30's.  Here's what theirs looked like:

(http://www.niot.net/niot_570/buick%20rendezvous%20niot.net%20(10).jpg)

FWIW the Rendezvous is not nearly as bad as the Aztek IMO.
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: DVP on May 01, 2009, 12:11:58 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;270031
FWIW the Rendezvous is not nearly as bad as the Aztek IMO.


True story.

Im sorry but to me, cutting Pontiac is a bad move. Maybe it is just the area I live in but they are EVERYWHERE and very popular. Just my opinion
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: massCougarxr7 on May 01, 2009, 12:12:39 PM
Yeah old peoplelike buiks and OLDsmobile!!!! lol.....  And another thing,... i really think auto manufacturers, need to have their production regulated...... I mean you drive down the srteet, and see an auto dealership, and they have ...... 10 -20 brand new pontiac solstice's.......... Honestly,,,,,, no -one has the cash these days to just say hmmmmm i think im gonna go buy one of those,,.....especially with so much economic BS thats going on....... like whats the sense of building 100,000 new cars, if on 30,000 will sell????If you ask me, a car lot should carry only a couple of new cars from the spcific brand, and if something there does not meet the customers requirements,.. then ORDER the one you want...... Like a lambo... you dont see a lambo dealership with a football field full of the things, so just because a (chevy-just an example) is more affordable means we can shove them all over the place???????? Just cause theyre there... doesnt mean theylll sellll.... The government needs to get on the same page as the rest of us........i mean really.... whatever happend to making "affordable muscle cars"????like novas and so on...... well thats enough ranting for me....
Title: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
Post by: massCougarxr7 on May 01, 2009, 12:13:37 PM
Beat me by a few seconds DVP!!!! lol