http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/23/autos/gm_unwind/?postversion=2009042315
bot sure how you got "chinese camaro" out of that.
because this is the precursor of things to come for GM. they say closing down the plants will help.. but in the long run, they will be moving production to china.
well they have to do something, all these yuppie assholes in the world today have this bug about American cars. We definately had trouble in the 80's due to emissions and so forth, but we have turned around. Many people are just skeptical about it.
Most if not all Ford/GM vehicles (I don't consider Chrysler American anymore) have actually surpassed the puppies & Chinese in quality(If i remember correctly).
very VERY true. I can see it first hand, as I usually go to dealerships from time to time and test drive/check out the new cars that arrive. I really REALLY cannot wait until the next Focus RS comes to the us. Man I really wish this version was here,
(http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/gallery/2009FordFocusRS/Ford-FocusRS-15.jpg)
it was the fastest car ever around Ford's test track in the UK. FASTER THAN EVEN THE FORD GT! :burnout:
GM cars have the worst build quality I've ever seen.... I'm not surprised at this "Chinese Camaro" comment. Most of the cars they've built in the last 10 years aren't even to Chinese quality standards.
I have always felt that GM cars have a cheap feeling to them, thought it was just me being bias.
As far as American cars being of higher quality than foreign cars.... I dont believe so. My opinion, I think they are better quality for the long haul for the cars they are building today. Could just be my experiences.
well, many people wanted it cheaper. "IT" meaning everythng they can get thier grubby paws on. All you hear is cheap cheap cheap., and you get it in return, the throw away consumer market.
No one has disipline to be loyal, instead many prop up forgien markets and hope they run right over us. Hey , we got what we wanted right? and we put a mouth piece in as top dog to talk us down to the rest of the world. Many should be happy all this is happening.
Myself, I look forward to my next tea party.
I don't know about GM, but Ford has equaled or bettered Toyota in quality. They've been advertising it lately. I couldn't confirm it from first hand experience because I wouldn't own a foreign car if you paid me. I have been driving Fords for over 30 years and they have treated me great.
GM is already producing cars in China, for the Chinese market, and Buick is actually their fastest-selling brand there. The cars are sold as fast as they can be built. Therefore there is not enough capacity for GM to build cars for both China and North America in China. GM will likely file for bankruptcy first. Unless China decides to dump billions in cash into GM to keep them afloat (or help them emerge from bankruptcy) then GM moving to China is not likely.
Lest you forget the cheap Chinese 5.0 intakes that don't fit right? It's not a GM-only problem.
Exactly my point about the intakes. Demand was high, people wanted them, they weren't being produced in America, in came the cheap Chinese knock-offs. People got what they wanted, alright.
You don't seem to understand the auto industry very much. The Camaro is made in Canada. And that means currently. It would cost them more to build a new plant in China and tool it for production of the Camaro than it would cost them to continue to build more than they can sell in Canada for two years straight, now that the plants have already been retooled and the workers trained.
And Both GM and Chrysler did this exact same thing last year, as well as many, MANY other automakers. Idling plants did not start here and now. Remember last year, when Toyota idled their truck plant, but kept their workers on to plant trees? Here (http://"http://www.datamonitor.com/store/News/toyota_to_idle_12_puppiesanese_plants_for_11_days?productid=E16F6FE6-6B66-4A8D-BB74-A39D74198D5C") they are idling 12 plants for 11 days in puppiesan. Here (http://"http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/17965031/detail.html?rss=det&psp=news") Ford idles 9 factories due to overproduction.
Also, I hate to tell you this man, but we're not getting the RS. In Europe it sells for BMW 3 Series money. No one in North America would pick a Focus, no matter how hot, over a 3.
Have you read anything about Chinese cars? Do a google search to see how they fair in crash tests.
More on what Cassidy and Eric are talking about. Look on Ebay for a 'turbo' and see how many are for sale for $150-300 brand new, buy it now. These are cheap Chinese grenades, and these products being put on the mass market have caused the deaths of top quality brands. GReddy, for example. You've got a Garret going for $1,300, and right below it an XYZChina model goes for $200. Most ignorant and cheap consumers make up their mind on dollar value alone.
I hate the new M3's i think they look hideous, i would give my right nut for a Focus RS. If they do bring it over i can see it being a limited run production kinda like what they did with the GT. So yes i would pick a Focus over the ugly new M3. Hell even if i loved the way the new M3's looked i would still pick the RS. i have been joensing over the European RS for years.
It would be nice, but Ford already told us we wouldn't be getting it. You have to admit that people like us here on this board are not the typical North American car buyer. Especially since we are enthusiasts for used cars.
ok.. ok the china camaro thing was more of a joke than anything... I did not even know they were made in canada.
btw what source do you have on us not getting the focus rs?
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/06/rumormill-entry-no-3-256-north-america-could-get-next-gen-for/
This is driving me nuts, but I can't find the article I read. I was positive it was autoblog as well. But that article is from the sixth and is over a rumour. Common sense tells us that North American buyers won't go for a sport Compact for $40,000+. European buyers don't see size as deterrent.
The sad thing is a lot of those companies brought about their own downfall. They "outsource" labour to China because it's cheaper to pay a Chinese worker $100/month than it is to pay a unionized worker $100/hour (and because of this, unions must shoulder a great deal of the blame here too - they've priced themselves out of work). They set up a factory over there or contract the work to an existing factory. That factory makes the components the company ordered. Now they've got the tooling (but often use inferior raw materials). They then produce millions more of the product and sell it on the black market for 10% of what the legit company can sell it for. The legit company goes out of business because they can't compete with the knockoffs.
...and we're all guilty of putting dollars before patriotism. Anyone who has ever shopped at Wal-Mart or bought Harbour Freight tools (or Princess Auto junk in Canada) have committed the "crime". I have a garage full of Princess Auto tools, some rather expensive, but still bought for a fraction of brand name stuff (engine lift, engine stand, shop press, pipe bender, bench grinder, sliding compound mitre saw, to name but a few). And all of these tools have performed as well as and brand name tools I've owned or used. There are certain tools I would not buy from China (hand tools, such as wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, etc) but for seldom-used tools my Chinese stuff has performed perfectly well.
I just bought a Chinese-made 4-burner + side stainless steel gas BBQ from Wal-Mart for $269 - this is less than half the price of a nearly identical BBQ from Canadian Tire. And I'm not even convinced the Canadian Tire one was made in North America.
We stand at the precipice of great change in the automotive industry. The Chinese ARE coming. They may stumble out of the gate with inferior quality cars, but they WILL learn the trade and they WILL improve, and the cars will be priced low enough that py quality will be forgiven at first (as it was with the puppiesanese and Koreans). The puppiesanese have usurped the Americans, the Koreans are currently usurping the puppiesanese, and the Chinese will usurp them all. Toyota and Honda are every bit as afraid as the domestics, perhaps more so because they can't even play the patriot card. And the Chinese will not be alone. The Indians are coming, too. This is perhaps GM's greatest folly in selling off brand names: They are giving the Chinese and Indians a well-established port of entry. It will not be long before you see Chinese cars sold under the Saturn brand name. Hummer will likely become a brand name for Mahindra & Mahindra or Tata.
I would not buy a Chinese or Indian car right now, much the same as I would not have bought a Hyundai back in 1984. I would certainly buy a Hyundai now though (think about it: Hyundai now offers a near-400-horse V8 RWD luxury sedan for about the same price Ford charges for a Taurus), and should China and/or India prove themselves I might even warm up to one of their cars in future.
We are becoming unindustrialized nations, and we are doing it to ourselves. Unions refuse to lower labour costs and drive our jobs overseas. High wages drove the electronics industry away (try and buy an American made TV set, I dare you), and the automotive industry will follow unless workers accept that they must make a
fair wage, not a king's ransom.
People can cry patriotism all they want, but I only make so much money, and I'm loathe to spend it on item A and thus subsidize unionized assembly line workers making much more than I do when I can buy item B for a fraction of the cost and end up with more features and similar or higher quality - and if the quality is lower the difference in price usually more than makes up for it. The success of Wal-Mart proves I am not alone in this opinion.