Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

General => General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion => Topic started by: Grumbles on April 15, 2009, 11:14:24 PM

Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 15, 2009, 11:14:24 PM
So I got my dress-up kit in the mail, which included valve cover bolts.  I threaded one bolt all the way down, but it had a little slack. I figured maybe there was some crud in the hole, so I just kept spinning it down in there...without very much pressure the  head snapped off.

What do i need to tap this sucker out?  I tried cutting a groove in the bolt, but it just broke my  screwdriver when I wrenched on it.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on April 15, 2009, 11:18:33 PM
You can drill a small hole in the center of the bolt and get an easy-out and thread the bolt back out - easier said than done though - I had to do this on a bolt I broke off inside a fire pump . It was 5/8" and it was still a PITA but its worth a shot
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Haystack on April 16, 2009, 12:08:39 AM
Those suck pretty bad. You will need to drill it out. Probably a very small drill bit, and you may break the easy off. Might be time for some better heads if it comes to the point of taking it to the machine shop.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 16, 2009, 05:46:48 AM
They're GT40 cast heads. I am not going to replace them, as I have home ported them and spent a good deal of cash on them.  I can't imagine a machine shop would charge me anything over a couple bucks to hog a snapped bolt out, especially not a valve cover bolt.

Besides, the whole engine is outside the car.  I can just drag the sucker down there and have em fix it.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: 88turbo on April 16, 2009, 08:40:10 AM
try a small left handed drill bit. usually when they grad the bolt will turn out.  definitely worth a try.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 16, 2009, 09:02:13 AM
I hope so...seems to be pretty darn tight in there so far.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 16, 2009, 02:44:33 PM
ugh.... So i tried everything.  I tried a reverse threaded bit, nothing.  Tried a easy-out and the thing SNAPPED OFF in it.  Now even my bits dont make a dent. why does this shiznit happen to me :(.

Can I take the entire block to the machine shop or do i need to dismantle it?
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Haystack on April 16, 2009, 10:51:33 PM
i'd just take the whole thing.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 17, 2009, 02:35:58 AM
I just gave up and put a fat bead of silicone over that end of the valve cover.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: massCougarxr7 on April 17, 2009, 07:59:19 AM
How much of the bolt was exposed???? If you have an 1/8 to 1/4 you can weld a wrench or piece of metal to it....... or use a pipe wrench........ If that broken bolt is on the lower side of the cover, id get it out now, the motor is out and still in the build up stages,..... im sure the last thing you want is to finish the motor and put it in just to see it leak all over,... and besides yougo through all this work, and neglect something small like that????? If you reallly cant get it out, or drill it out, then id drill n tap a hole about a 1/4 inch away from the broken one, and do the same for the valve cover...
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: vinnietbird on April 17, 2009, 09:29:06 AM
Quote from: Grumbles;267847
I just gave up and put a fat bead of silicone over that end of the valve cover.


Not cool.Take it to the machine shop,drop a few bucks,and do it right the first time.Don't leave it that way.Pull the head if you have to,but get it done right.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 17, 2009, 10:41:53 PM
The trouble with that theory is that my local machine shop has already stated they figure it's a lost cause because I busted an easy-out off in it.  I'm also running drastically short on money to spend, just getting this far has gone WAY over my budget, and I'm not even into replacing the transmission and getting the correct linkeages yet.

Would it cost much? probably not, but having to buy $60-70 worth of gaskets and spend 50+ to get it fixed for a single valve cover bolt makes me a sad panda.  I'd be willing to tap a second hole and thread that, but I don't have the tools on hand, and frankly I'm tired of getting nick-and-dimed before the  thing's even IN the car nick-and-diming me like it should with hoses and whatnot.

I can't imagine a top corner bolt being an issue. if you guys figure the probability of it leaking is REALLY that high I'll disassemble it, but I warn you, i WILL do so kicking and/or screaming.  I just put the F#^%ing thing together and an ARP bolt snaps in the most useless place ever.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 17, 2009, 11:01:04 PM
God it everybody I've talked to so far has indicated that they're positive it's going to leak.

Why me :(
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 18, 2009, 05:15:40 AM
are they steel heads? is it broke below the surface,if so you might be able to have stud welded on, even with aluminum ones.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: jcassity on April 18, 2009, 10:29:33 AM
yes, with an easy out, your not going to drill anything out of there unless you have a real diamond tip bit.


A little late here but get a set of craftsman Grabits bit.  They would nave gotten that bolt out.  I have a set from the boys for christmas and let me tell you they are worth evey penny.  I put them to the test.

Kitz mentioned welding a stud,, that is your only option right now.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Thunderhawk on April 18, 2009, 10:36:08 AM
If you can find a small (possibly carbide or titanium) bit, drill on slow speed and see if it will cut the ez out. If it does, drill all the way through ez out and stud. Then get a small torch and heat the area at the broken varmit. Once it gets hot, (don't overdo it) the stud should turn out.

A word of advice to all, anytime you are doing assembly work on your engines, always chase threaded passages with the proper taps to ensure clean threads. This should virtually eliminate the chances of this type of problems. It also aids in the achievement of proper torque of fasteners.

Good luck and let us know!
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: akh43 on April 18, 2009, 11:42:28 AM
already try to heat the head a bit wit a plumbing torch
i guess is the upper one ??
if is the down one try to make a  bolted in the manifold to retain the valve cover

 bolt
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 18, 2009, 01:33:40 PM
The welding idea sounds like it'd work, the problem is I dont have a welder, or any ready access to one.  I guess I'm going to have to see if the machine shop can handle it, and if not, take it to some sort of laser place that will cut it out.

Ghetto fix - Does anybody know what kind of tools I'd need to just drill/tap a new hole a couple spaces away?

EDIT: I didn't even know they MADE steel heads :o.  This is a cast GT40 set
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on April 18, 2009, 02:06:15 PM
Hmm. Quite the Pickle.  The easy out should be brittle, so maybe you can crack it out with a cheap punch.  Once its out.  I would just use a bit that will consume the threads and the stuck bolt.  Get a sharp brand new one.  Once the hole is hogged out.  Pop a helicoil in it or tap the next size up bolt. 

Can you cut a slot in it with a dremmel? Then you could try to turn it out with a flat blade.  I have had good success with that in the past.

Just some ideas.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 18, 2009, 02:15:31 PM
Tried busting the easy-out...the part that broke off is too small to get a solid purchase on, and drills dont even make a dent.  The dremel slot was actually the first thing i tried, but this sucker is lodged in there nice and tight. made no progress but to break a couple screwdrivers (!!) and eventually strip the groove.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: yankeepete on April 18, 2009, 06:30:10 PM
The only thing I could suggest is if you are good with a cutting torch you could attach some heavy pieces of s steel around the area then try to melt and blow out the bolt. The s would act as a heat sink so you don't over heat the head itself. Even if you only got some of it out it might give you enough to drill the rest and retap the hole.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Haystack on April 19, 2009, 01:15:19 PM
You need to take the drill off and clamp the head down and use a drill press and possible a diamond bit.

This reminds me of the time I had to drill out two lug nuts.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 19, 2009, 07:45:04 PM
Any suggestions on how to level the head out?  Also, home depot is garbage, where do I pick a diamond bit up from?
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: jcassity on April 20, 2009, 12:38:44 AM
as said, your going to be hard pressed to find anything that puts a dent in anything at or beyond the density of an easy out.

while you are on this mission, get that set of bits i mentioned earlier,, "Grabits".

http://www.diamond-drill-bit-and-tool.com/Diamond-Drill/MAIN.htm

I still think you simply need to have someone show up with a little wire welder, tac weld a stud and call it good.

your technically screwed
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Haystack on April 20, 2009, 02:49:18 AM
I really wouldn't worry about getting the head ridiculously level. Even if the thread isn't 100% straight, its just a valve cover bolt. There will be a gasket, and a the vavle cover. As long as the thread is repaired, it really should matter too much. I would get some wood and just "shim" it untill its close with a level.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 20, 2009, 06:43:17 AM
All of the tips in the link are too weak for this application.

If I wanted to tap a new hole in the head, hypothetically...how might I go about that?  I know, I'm filled with questions.  I'm new at this.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: EricCoolCats on April 20, 2009, 07:21:41 PM
Quote from: Grumbles
Besides, the whole engine is outside the car. I can just drag the sucker down there and have em fix it.

You can't just remove the head and bring it to the shop? Seems that would be the easiest thing to do with the engine out of the car. Removing a head is a piece of cake right now.

From what you're saying has happened already, I wouldn't trust anyone but the shop to fix it right, right now, the first time, with the proper method. Vinnie has the right idea.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 20, 2009, 08:06:49 PM
Yeah I settled on letting the professionals handle it.  I'm just collecting ideas in the odd event that the professionals tell me I'm boned.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 22, 2009, 08:47:26 PM
Quote from: Grumbles;267683
I figured maybe there was some crud in the hole, so I just kept spinning it down in there....

what were you thinking?
:nutkick:
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 23, 2009, 12:01:35 AM
Quote from: Jim_Miller;268696
what were you thinking?
:nutkick:


Helpful.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: MrBill88Tbird on April 26, 2009, 06:58:27 AM
Grumbles,

The time, effort and aggravation you have spent to get the bolt out should be a valuable lesson. After two failed attempts, it was time to hand it over to the professionals. (BTW, nothing wrong with failed attempts ) :)

If your going to complain about being nickle and dimed to death and you state that your new to this. You will need to make a decision if you want to stay in this hobby, because I promise you, YOU WILL BE NICKLE AND DIMED TO DEATH.

I have been doing this for 30+ years and the only difference I have seen is, it went from nickles and dimes to twenties, fifties and hundreds!

Remember...... You can always make more money but, the time we have is a limited amount and we have no knowledge of when it will run out. So spend your money wisely and your time even wiser.

Hope it all works out and keep us posted!!!
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 27, 2009, 02:02:51 PM
Yeah, I know how the whole money thing goes...that wont stop me from g and moaning though.  Taking the head to a machine shop today, I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on April 27, 2009, 03:40:31 PM
On my very first car, I snapped a bolt off on the valve cover gasket.  Too much monkey power I guess.  I shot some RTV down in the hole and stuffed the bolt head into it and called it good (so I wouldn't have to explain it to anyone).  I bet its still on the road somewhere like that.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: MrBill88Tbird on April 27, 2009, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: Grumbles;269338
Yeah, I know how the whole money thing goes...that wont stop me from g and moaning though.  Taking the head to a machine shop today, I'll let you know how it goes.


:rollin:
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Romeo2k on April 27, 2009, 10:35:13 PM
AWWW $%&^%$!

I'm probably gonna end up having the same problems...

I just noticed i had a broken off bolt in the timing chain cover (right next to the water pump port) on the 351.
And theres no way i can transfer the whole block to a machine shop any time soon.

:punchballs::punchballs::punchballs:
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 28, 2009, 12:48:17 AM
be suuuuper careful if you try an EZ out.  Take my word for it...far from EZ :|
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 28, 2009, 12:48:53 AM
Quote from: danzajax;269367
On my very first car, I snapped a bolt off on the valve cover gasket.  Too much monkey power I guess.  I shot some RTV down in the hole and stuffed the bolt head into it and called it good (so I wouldn't have to explain it to anyone).  I bet its still on the road somewhere like that.


Oh god...that's exactly what I did :|
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Haystack on April 28, 2009, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: Romeo2k;269447
AWWW $%&^%$!

I'm probably gonna end up having the same problems...

I just noticed i had a broken off bolt in the timing chain cover (right next to the water pump port) on the 351.
And theres no way i can transfer the whole block to a machine shop any time soon.

:punchballs::punchballs::punchballs:


have you pulled off a timing chain cover yet?
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on April 30, 2009, 02:41:03 AM
Dropped it off today with a gentleman by the name of Gibbs who happens to run an avionics CNC shop right in my own back yard.  As I walked in I couldn't help but notice he was machining custom oil pans and control arms for Nissan 240's.  I offered to maybe put in a couple hours here and there for cheap just to learnthe trade.  Told him I wasn't terribly concerned with money, just interested in the field.

We'll see what he says :]
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on May 02, 2009, 06:13:43 AM
Got the head back today.  Guy did a really good job, even machined out the area where I'd slipped up and bit into the cast with a drill.
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: MrBill88Tbird on May 02, 2009, 06:34:54 AM
Good news!! Any word on you working with them?
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: FLSTCI71 on May 02, 2009, 12:25:18 PM
Quote from: MrBill88Tbird;270154
Good news!! Any word on you working with them?

+1  Any word?

P.S. Mr Bill, your avatar is backwards, you need to have your cool car in the foreground, not the background. :D
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: MrBill88Tbird on May 02, 2009, 03:05:10 PM
Quote from: FLSTCI71;270181
+1  Any word?

P.S. Mr Bill, your avatar is backwards, you need to have your cool car in the foreground, not the background. :D


The cool car is in the front!!! LOL T'Bird is cool too!!!
The T'Bird is now my Son's (Kingcars) on this forum.

:burnout:
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Thunderhawk on May 02, 2009, 07:09:20 PM
Personally, I like the chevelle. Big Block? Years ago, I had a '67 SS. Wish I still did.
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Post by: MrBill88Tbird on May 02, 2009, 07:46:51 PM
It's a 350 bored and stroked to 385!! ;)

:burnout:
Title: (*#$!!
Post by: Grumbles on May 02, 2009, 08:40:15 PM
No word on that unfortunately.  I left my digits, but he has his two kids working in the shop with him, I doubt he needs my help.