OK I recently came accross a very cheep LS1 from a family member and have read about all the mustang LS1 swaps and was wondering if anyone here has done this on a bird. OK Let the flam beggin.
Well I for one think this would be neat. They are pretty strong motors and take well to mods. If you could get it to work I think you'd have the first LS1 powered Fox Bird/Cat. Go for it, theres nothing like a guy that blazes his own trail.
Please do, but do it to a V6. :hick:
Go for it man...LS1's are amazing motors. I have seen fox mustang's in person with LS1's and they actually look like a pretty tight fit in there. I think I might have a pic somewhere of one I'll dig it up.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0707phr_ford_mustang_ls1_engine_transplant/index.html
http://www.forumeter.com/video/54842/LS1-Mustang-Swap
Only problem i have with it is droppin' a chevy in a ford.
Here are some pics of a nice Chevrolet-motored fox 'Stang I saw on Power Tour last year. It really caught me off guard, I just kind of glanced at it totally assuming a blown 5.0. After looking at these pictures, I guess my memory was a little off...It wasnt that tight in there after all. Hell people put big blocks into Foxes so an LS1 should not be a problem fitment wise. I'd about bet a 4.6 is wider than an LS1.
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr313/50tbrd88/DSCF0814.jpg)
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr313/50tbrd88/DSCF0815.jpg)
that thing sounds nasty. sounds like one helluva job, but too awesome to not do. i second the use of a v6 car.
I helped put a V-6 Turbo Buick in a Fox Mustang back in 2000...you want to talk about no camp to hang with....WOW!!
I say have at it. It can't be hard since the Deck height of a LS motor is not far off the 351W. The fox body is a great swap platform and it's light weight compared to a heavy LS1 camaro or GTO. Those cars were closer to 4000 lbs than 3000 lbs and still run in the 12's with a few bolt ons.
Sounds like a worthy project.
saw a LSx swapped fox mustang yesterday with a single turbo. one of the best uses of a fox mustang i have seen in a long time...
If I had a Chevy engine I would put it in a GM vehicle. Why not just put it in a S-10 like everyone else does ????
Lets see... the Ford guys will walk away after seeing that LS and the GM guys will wonder why you drive a Ford.
Too many Ford engine combos out there for me to ever consider building a cross-breed. JMO
I agree, and the LS series of motors are more expensive to hop up then a 302...
True enough, but with an LSx you're starting off at a baseline that would already cost you a pretty penny to achieve on a 302. You're looking at aftermarket heads, intake, and cam, along with the attendant upgrades required (larger injectors, bigger TB & MAF, etc) just to get the 302 over 300 horses. The LS1
starts at what, 305 horses? Plus you're getting a lighter engine (all aluminum, unless you go with a truck engine) and stronger, too.
If I could find a wrecked LSx/6-speed donor car I'd swap it into my T-Bird in a heartbeat (no pun intended).
Ford should have offered something similar, instead of only a 281 cu in OHC thingy... Sure we have a 40 year old 351(basic design back to '60) but of course it has to be built up same as a 5.0... I got no problem with it, even if it were in a TC...
The only real problem with the swap is the lack of respect you would get with it. If you are the type of person who cares what other people think, it probably isn't the way to go. Certainly don't do it thinking people in general will think its awesome. Id be willing to wager it would be received even less well than modding something obscure like a fox tbird/cougar let alone modding one with a GM engine. I would never do it because i don't care for it myself. Id rather stuff a modular mach1 4 valve into it.
You could look at other LS* series motors like 5.3 or the truck based 6.0 too. Might be a tad cheaper and the mods transfer.
Just a thought.
hell swap in a termy motor... 390hp... and they take VERY WELL to cheap mods, and near bullet proof to boot...
in the end man it is your car and do whatever makes you happy with it....
That's actually more involved, believe it or not. There is more than one company that makes K-members to mate an LSx to a Fox.
For example.... http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=AJE-MU3030K%20%20%20%201&comp=LRS
If it'll fit in a Stang,it'll fit in our cars.
I would guess that LSx motor's are more plentiful than Terminator Cobra motors. Plus keep in mind he already has access to a cheap LS1.
I'd say go for it man. Who cares what other people think as long as you like it. Hell I saw a guy on Power Tour driving a '57 Chevy with a 460 in it. Talk about g people off...GM guys would look under the hood and storm off with a pissed off look on their face. lol.
yea I know, but no more involved then a Mach I swap. Which is the main reason I mentioned that swap... if you are going to swap a $v, why not swap one with 85 more HP?
its a shiznit tone more expensive to obtain an 03-04 cobra swap thats why
Do it if you are good with electronics. If not, don't.
You gotta stuff an intercooler in there as well ;)
Like I was saying My brother in law has one he pulled out of a wrecked car and is letting me have the whole thing for less than $1000
Then buy it and install it, if not sell it since you'll get more for it. Made your money back and some extra.
I'd stick it in a older monty carlo, cutlass or something then.
LS1 in a 79 Cutlass.....
It takes a huge pair to do something like that.
In the spirit of hot rodding, I love it. :)
The only thing that would bother me is that it would appear to Chevy owners that their engine is even more ubiquitous, if that's even possible. When a Chevy 350 or similar engine is thrown into, well, anything, they think nothing of it...almost as it that's the way it should be. It would look like the Ford owner resigned himself over to that fact. "Look, I gave up on Ford motors and went with what everyone else in the hot rodding world does!"
Hence the connundrum.
However...even in the age of massive car electronics, as long as there's a working ECU the car doesn't really care what's under the hood.
To Chevy guys the LS1 is the ultimate motor swap IMO. Like a retard on puppies they'll stick it in ANYTHING!
Yeah baby, now were talkin'
No. It's 23 years old. 2 more years until "antique" status.
All I gotta say is this:
It's your car, and if YOU want to have a strong engine in it, then go ahead.
I know I'd put an LS in my car if A: I had one, and B: had the stuff to do it right.
I'd put in a 426 hemi, an LS6 454 or anything mean if I had the parts and the skills to do it. Be ed to those who say "oh no, a chevy motor.."
It's your car, and you do what you want to with it! (besides, they're just jealous! lmao) :flip::rollin:
What do you want?
it's your car man, do exactly what you want with it. nuff said.
lol i was jokin!!!! my buddy is trying to sell his,....
$1000 ain't dirt cheap to me.
You can get a good running Mark VIII 4V engine and trans for well under $500 if you look, 290HP, and it will EASILY bolt in with all factory parts.
Caveat is the wiring, but if you do an LS engine swap you have similar issues anyway.
I recently saw an 80 some odd thousand mile one for $300 on Craigslist. It sold fast. One of my nephews found a running and driving Mark VIII with bad air bags for $290. He has sold and is selling the chassis and body parts, et. al., to maybe make the engine and trans free or even make a few bucks, and the motor and trans are going into an 87 TC.
Any modular motored Fox K-member makes it a bolt in. There are hundreds of thousands of those out there.
4.6 Cobra headers bolt on and they are showing up in good used condition and of course new anytime you want. At prices MUCH cheaper then Chevy into Fox swap headers. ($700+!)
A caveat on 4v Modullars of course is the cams. They are WAY more expensive then any other engine, BUT, you don't really need a cam swap with the 4V's cause they breath so well from the factory anyway.
The LS1 engine swap is not your cheapest performance swap.
Look, putting an LS1 motor isnt bad at all....
Nothing will ever be as bad as the fast and furious tokyo drift movie where the fools stuck a nissan motor in a mustang. THAT'S a sin.
I think its more of a sin droppin a chevy in a ford.
Thats odd coming from a guy with a GM vehicle. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to do this, its just different. After all, we all obviously like being different because of the cars we are into.
Just because i own a gm doesn't mean anything i just wouldn't be droppin' a chevy in a ford. I love my firebird but hate seeing people driving around with cars like a 32 ford roadster and having a 350 chevy in it.
Thats because gm made thier performance crate motor devision long before ford did. Many of these guys who did these restorations 10+ years ago didn't have access to a ford complete crate motor. Ford with FMS finally got on the band wagon.
Yeah, those were restorations 10+ years ago what about all the ones built after that and the fiberglass kit cars that are being built. A lot of the cars out here have been recent restorations not something that was done over 10-15 years ago. The kit cars are also getting really popular because knowone can find originals anymore that haven't already been restored.
Chevy small blocks are narrower than Ford small blocks, they fit better.
That's funny....the old mid 90's SVO catalog I have laying around has crate motors listed....:rolleyes:
It was more of a budget issue than anything else.... A 2 bolt main Chevy 350 could be built to make 300 flywheel horsepower CHEAP. It wouldn't handle much more than that (hence the reason GM guys looking to make big power in a small block hunt for 4 bolt main engines), but in a stripped down light car such as a T-bucket or similar which don't weigh much to begin with how much more do you need? Figure 2100 pounds or so is a common weight for one and and if you could get a 700R4 behind it with some 3.73's you're gonna move. QUICKLY.
Absolutely Not so, the 5.0 is smaller in every dimension than about any V8 engine ever produced... A 351 Windsor is close to the same size as a SBC...
But yet a 460 big block will fit under the stock hood with little modification on most 30 year old or older fords when using a mustang II front end.
Theres your reason right there.
TurboCoupe50: I don't remember who told me that but I guess I just learned another new thing today. Thanks!
Most guys building hot rods , including those using a Mouse or Rat motor, use Mustang II front ends. The Mustang II front end is the Chevy Small Block of IFS conversions...
My point was they fit because they went to the aftermarket to get a custom front clip. They didn't use the stock front end. I may be wrong but wouldn't using one of these open it up? I realize the Mustang II front end is used alot, I know enough to know that much....
I would think an IFS would actually take up more room than the stock I-beam suspension. I tend to go along with the others who say the SBC became a common swap engine because it is so cheap and plentiful, as are hop-up parts. The availability of kits to install the mouse into just about every car ever made certainly helps, too...
Now we aren't talking about a coil over front suspension are we because that would negate the need for strut towers opening it up quite a bit, but thats just my thoughts. I know I'll more than probably end up being wrong as usual but I suppose its how I learn.
No, a Mustang II front suspension is an unequal length control arm setup, similar to what you'd find in a second gen Camaro or Nova (which are also common IFS conversion donors). The mount for the upper control arm and spring pocket would take up some room.
Hmm, well I guess I've learned my fair share again and looked like a fool as usual. Another day lost a little more info gained. :sorry:
if i could find a cheap lq4 (6.0 iron block LS series engine) and a cheap f-body t56, i would be all over it.
...And drop spindles for them are CHEAP!
When I was a kid, I'd stay with my mom down in south missouri during the summers..anyway, her and her second husband were friends with a guy that had a 'glass body t bucket with a 428 CJ.
I was always staring at it whenever I saw it..my mom never did let me ride in it cause it was pretty fast. It made such an impression on me that I made a model of it...428 and all.
The sbc is cheap and it is a good package. The rear oil pump\sump pan helps a lot in that area. I have heard that the basic layout was modeled after the Flat-Head Ford, in search of conquest, hotrod market sales and imaging. That worked pretty well.
Build a couple different brand motors, one of them being the sbc, and add up all those parts that are $5,10,15 and more cheaper for the sbc and you have saved a LOT of money over the next cheapest engine, the SBF. Money that stays in your pocket or money that can be spent on more goodies.
It doesn't take a genius to recognise a lower price. Any mouth breather knows that $79 is less then $89.
The 5.0 Fox Mustang changed that equation. The entire car cost less to go fast than any other package. The 5.0 Mustang is the sbc of the late 20th/early 21st century.
It is so easy and cheap to drop a 302 or 351 in a fox chassis and strokers are reasonable. The swap can be done with stock parts. Sell the chevy motor buy a stroked ford smblk.
Roger
i personally dont like the ls series chevy motors...i'd prefer the older original smallblock chevy's....preferably the 350......i have one in my 88 turbocoupe......the original 2.3 turbo block blew up and i wanted something original so i dropped in a 350 to shake things up a bit.....i am in the process of rebuilding it and modding it a bit......
Well that certainly is different thats for sure :)
The GM LS series of engines are probably one of the best new performance engines out there. Incredibly durable, they easy to hop up and readily available.
On the other hand, a 302 or 347 Ford with the Holley SysteMax or similar top end is a definite performer that will do any Ford owner proud.
Frankly, if it were me, I would go with a nice small block Ford and the Holley top end, and a 5 or 6 speed behind it.
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
This extremely accurate but i just have to tell ya the set up is referred to as the "short arm long arm, SLA" set up. like how the thunder bird's suspension is "Modified McPherson.(separate spring and strut") its a generalization though.
the ls series may seem like a decent performance motor but the parts are by far not cheap to obtain.....
that is why i like the older smallblock chevy's....easier and a little cheaper on the wallet to build up
True, the older SBC is cheap to build, but as I think I said earlier on in this thread (too lazy to look it up), with an LSx engine you start out at a power level that takes some coin to achieve in either a small block Chevy or small block Ford. It's gonna take some decent heads, a decent intake, and a decent cam to top 300 horses on any 302, 350 or 351. The LSx engine family starts at over 300 horses, and is a stronger, lighter aluminum block as well. The nice thing is that there are so many of them out there, under the hoods of '99 and newer trucks, that they will soon be a cheap swap source. Yeah, most of the truck engines are cast iron (The Escalade and Denalis have an aluminum 6.0 liter), but they still belt out some very respectable power numbers...
Like I said earlier, I'd do it in a "heartbeat"...
BTW, 88350byrd: You can probably expect to be torn a new corn shute for having a 350-powered Turbo Coupe (this is a site full of rabid Ford fans, after all), but I'd like to see some pics. I'd never put a SBC into a T-Bird myself, but I'd like to see pics of how it was done. And kudos for using the T5 instead of a TH350 like so many others do...
I'm just happy he has a working TC and didn't tear it apart for some POS like someone else I know......:rolleyes:
few pics of the birds heartbeat.....soon to be modified.....
some more pics of the bird....
Me I could care less, but everyone gets their hackles up when someone says Chevy... I don't remember one negative comment when Ted(what was his screen name?) rolled in here with a 500 Caddy in a TC...
i had to mix it up a little just cause the original 2.3 turbo blew up.....my g/f's brother happens to race street stocks so i said hey why not......as of right now the motor is bein torn down and done over....i have so many options when it comes to cams so i am all set in that neck of the woods....i also have a set of 461 camel hump heads to slap on if need be if someone wants to mess with the bird....i am starting with a set of powerpack 305 heads which if i'm not mistaken will bump up the compression a bit .....i am also puttin a set of flat top .030 over ross pistons with 6 inch rods.......its basically a very similar setup as to whats in my g/f's brother's street stock......its gonna have some nut lets just say that.......i'll take some pictures as it goes along.....
on a different note.....i am in desperate need of some headlight assemblies as mine are kinda in sad shape.....
It's your car, so you should do exactly what you want. Personally, I'm a Ford guy, so I'd never use a bowtie, for anything. I'm building a street rod with a Mustang motor, Lincoln rear, Mustang front, Cougar column, etc. But that's just me. One thing for you to keep in mind, even if you don't care what other people think, is if you ever plan on selling it. There are a lot of people who would be interested in a bird with a bowtie, but there are even more who wouldn't touch it. If you plan on keeping it though, then that's not a problem. Then we're back to your car, your decision....
I wouldn't have done it, but what the hey, it's not like these things are rare...
On the other hand, I've always thought a Volvo 2.9 I6 with a Turbo would make a cool swap. And it's almost a Ford engine...
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
Huh...Where in NH are you from?
southern new hampshire