How to get into an argument with a mechanic. (Warning may be long winded for some).
Now some may remember my thread I started on performance ideas/possibilities for a S.O. engine. Needless to say ideas were derived and seeds were planted in minds. So today I headed over to my mechanic to get a quote on getting my lower intake manifold gasket done and what else I should take care of while this was getting done. I just recently purchased a H.O. upper intake manifold, and I also am looking to buy a 1/2" FMS plenum spacer. The plan was to have the mechanic install these items on the car when the lower intake gaskets were done, the spacer to go on during reassembly and H.O. upper to go on in place of S.O. upper. However the mechanic seemed to be rather adamant that I was "going in the wrong direction" and that installing those items would hinder more than help. The remark I got for the H.O. upper was that "it wouldn't match up or seal right to the lower intake". Now i've read and have been told that this a "direct bolt-on" upgrade, no modifying necessary. But he insisted that one of his buddys who "worked" for a ford dealer service deparment that you absolutly had to have the matching HO lower to do the swap right. I don't get it, is it possible? have I been wrong all this time? or is my mechanic mis-informed? So onto the plenum spacer issue. The mechanics response was "it'll kill your gas mileage and low-end torque, and possibly not fit". My understanding of this device is exactly the opposite. I have read that by lengthening the intake runners, you increase low end torque, make the air charge cooler, and potentially increase gas mileage. So to get to the point, who's right, who's wrong, or am I barking up the wrong tree to get that little bit extra outta my engine?
The 5.0 SEFI intake is the same. SO or HO. However, the ones on the CrownVic and Grand Marquis are different, but that is none of your concern. Mustang and T-birds.. all the same. The lowers are no different at all. Tell him to suck a nut.
Well that, or just tell him to put it on anyway!! Tho I do occassionally clash with him/them, I still respect their opinion, and especially the work they do.
well, the HO intake throttle body and egr did wonders for the response of my SO engine with a noticable gain in power. the gas mileage is the same if not better. the lowers are exactly the same as previously stated. thats it cut and dry. to be honest with you, you should install the lower intake gasket yourself as well as the upper. its as easy as it gets and you get that much more farmilliar with your car. it will save you the labor money the ballsucker mechanic was going to soak you for anyway. use that money for tools or something.
the lower is exactly the same
NO its not its exactly the same... :flip: :giggle:
I put the H.O. upper on mine last Friday.I took my time and it still didn't take 45 minutes.Go for it.It's easier than it looks.I figured since it'll be another month before I can get my H.O. engine in the car,I may as well do this swap in the meantime.
K, so we've agreed that the HO upper will bolt on direct, a match port for port no questions asked. Any insight on the plenum spacer? Seems like it's one of those mythical parts that no-one wants to talk about! Is there a possibility of clerance issues, or would it kill my MPG, or is this actually a good idea for an SO engine?
Mechanics are mostly dumb.... I was told that because I don't have cats I am running super rich and I would end up burning my valves. Yet every single person I talk to says the exact opposite.
Thought i'd pass this along. Port Indexing (http://www.mustangcentral.net/tech/intake_index.htm) Seems like a good idea. Imma try it out myself.
LoL. I start school in May to be one of those Mechanics. ^_^ They are always telling me what 'will' and 'won't' work. I just say 'ok' and go find someone else (or do it myself). But i do most of the work on my ride anyways so that's been cut down considerably.
Last thing I paid someone to do was change a u-joint, only cause I didn't have a 12 point 13 socket the only night of the week I could change it.
You learn by screwing stuff up! So go break something so you can fix it!
Since when??? The HO and SO lowers I've seen have the same part number...
To answer your question about the intake spacer,when i had my SO engine i installed a 1/2" heat spacer and instantly felt a seat of the pants torque feeling.
They do work,seperating the 2 intakes to get a cooler air charge as well as effectivley lengthening the runners to provide more torque.
Look at the 5.0L truck intake,those runners are much longer than a car 5.0L,reason,more torque.
O and as for that dumb mechanic thing,i kinda take offense to that as i am one, so if we could keep that to a minimum that would be great.
That's the info i'm looking for! I've read about the cooler air charge and such and the extra torque, i'm looking to verify that it would most likely improve my MPG. I'm thinking it would myself but input from someone who's got one would be nice. Also were there any clearance issues with the spacer? Just wanna make sure that when the hood gets closed I don't end up with a crease in the hood or worse.
A 1/2" spacer won't affect anything. A 1" spacer certainly will; it would be close with the hood, and you would have to remount the throttle cable bracket to the upper by drilling new holes. I've noticed absolutely no difference with the 1" spacer in the convertible. Only reason I have it is for the upper to clear the tall valve covers. It's kinda nice actually using the cowl hood though. ;)
Cool 3 outta 4! So when you say you didn't notice a diff between the 1" and the 1/2" was that in the engine response sense? I guess it doesn't matter too much, i'm only looking to pick up the FMS 1/2" anywho's. Oh, Eric, what was your general before and after impression of the spacer?
You could use a wrench to take off the driveshaft... I usually never use a socket...
Just a PITA to install. Keep in mind I have the Cobra upper and Cobra/GT40 lower with the round ports. Ended up needing another gasket because one of the two that came with the kit got ripped pretty easily. They don't exactly carry those at parts stores...a trip to Summit Racing was in order (oh, how it pained me). I thought dealing with one spacer was bad...with these kits you have one on top, and one on the bottom, of the spacer.
Like I said, I noticed no performance difference at all on the street. It's only on my engine to lift the intake over the tall valve covers. Otherwise I'd have sold the spacer kit awhile ago (or never bought it in the first place). My particular engine seems to show little response to mods, probably because I did a lot of them at once and now it's like a drop of water in the bucket. On the dyno it may show improvements, I don't know. I am also running the E-303 cam with an AOD, so there is little vacuum at idle to begin with. I may have a vacuum leak somewhere that's preventing me from enjoying any kind of small performance mods too. On a relatively stock non-HO or HO motor with the factory upper, I imagine you would notice a difference with a spacer.
Hey eric next time you need gaskets for your intake, order them for a 95 cobra stang. You should be able to get them at any parts store specially napa. ;)
Mike
i was just messin with shawn...i know they are the same. thats why i said what i said...lol
the theory of the heat spacer makes alot of sense. weather or not they make much of a differance is neglegable. i think erics application (tall valve cover clearance) would be just as good a reason to use one as its intended use. i wouldnt realy bother buying one for a stock style intake if you plan on getting an aftermarket intake later on. better to buy one than 2...i think they are better suited as one of those last mods you do to squeak every list bit or power out of an engine. like plug indexing for example...
That's basically what I did when my gasket tore. Got one at AutoZone for a 93 Cobra. They're always in stock and the gasket is better than the standard ford gasket.
I plan on doing the HO upper plenum, TB and spacer swap soon, I had to buy a new TV cable though because it seems Ford changed the desine of were the TV cable mounts to the TB, had to update to newer style cable with the brass bushing. A buddy of mine did this with his 87 and said he noticed a differance in performance and gass milage, he claims doin 70mph he gets 34mpg according to the dash cluster. but what he also did is that he blocked off the EGR passage in the lower intake with a 13/16 freeze plug, and he said that cooled the air going into the TB, he also elimenated the coolant hoses to the spacer. I plan on dion the same thing whene I go into the intake.
the corect part number for the plenum gasket on Cobra and GT40 intakes is Fel-Pro MS-95953
and should be stocked in most auto part stores..
Fel-Pro Gaskets (http://www.pickproparts.com/PartsList.aspx?AAIASubCategoryID=5424)
(http://www.pickproparts.com/picture%20server/fel/MS95953.jpg)
have a nice day
Nick
I think you guys are wasting your money and time with the phenolic spacers. I doubt any of you will see any gains on the dyno or "seat of your pants" feel when installing these. I have two on mine, 3/8" and a 1/2" for a total of 7/8". I only did this to clear my tall valve covers. I didnt notice any difference at all. Soon I will have my HO intakes for sale if anyone is interested.
James
Let me correct myself....the gasket wasn't available at the time, at the parts stores around me. Which meant I *sigh* HAD to make the trip to Summit. ;)
Eric,i had a similar issue.
My auto parts store said that they could not get a gasket for a 1993 cobra but however the 1996 to 2000 explorer 5.0l is a gt40 as well so i just had them search that and bingo they had one in stock.
Why they can't cross reference that i don't know,doesn't make sense to me.
As for seat of your pants feel with the spacer,i speak from experience when i say that on a STOCK SO engine i definetly does make a noticeable differance.
This may be due to the fact that that engine is so detuned (STUPID 155HP) that anything you do will show a noticable improvement.
:crazy: Same Part Number :raspberry
i guess your parts guys don't have a clue... :rollin:
but then again!!!
i guess thats why most of the time when i have to go to parts stores these days.
i have to go to the shelf my self. because most of the time they say they don't stock it.. then i say ok!
give me the book.
then i open the book and then go to the shelf..
and most of the time i come back with the part in my hand..
and all they can do is scratch their head!!! and go:dunno:
and i shake my head in :disappoin