Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: thunderjet302 on March 20, 2009, 03:20:33 PM

Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 20, 2009, 03:20:33 PM
So here's the problem I've been having with my AOD since last year (well maybe 3 years, AFAIK it was happening with the old engine): when in D the trans won't kick down from 3-2 unless I'm at 40 mph or less. Above 40 mph it won't kick down to 2nd gear (it should kick down to 2nd from 50 mph and down). In OD at 45 mph it will kick down to 2nd for a brief second and then up shift to 3rd. Again any speed above 45 mph in OD and I only get a kick down to 3rd. Yes I've adjusted the TV cable every which way and nothing helps. I can get it to kick down at 45 mph to 2nd in D by adjusting the TV cable to it's max point. The problem is when the TV cable is at it's max setting it get late and hard shifts. So does this mean my AOD is going to take a poop? Before I got the car from my dad's cousin the AOD was *rebuilt* at around 98,000 miles. God knows what that shop did to it. Maybe it's time to invest in a new AOD sooner than I wanted to :sawzall:
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: vinnietbird on March 20, 2009, 03:43:05 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;262851
Maybe it's time to invest in a new AOD sooner than I wanted to


Maybe it's time for a 5 speed swap.It's one of the best mods I ever did for the Sport.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 20, 2009, 03:57:40 PM
Without a new valve body or a kit,you won't see 2nd much it's not designed that way. Without a pressure gauge  you really won't know where the Tv cable really needs to be. there is a fine difference between ajusting the cable by hand, it could make it better or worst.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ~AC on March 20, 2009, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;262857
Maybe it's time for a 5 speed swap.It's one of the best mods I ever did for the Sport.


an AOD to AOD swap is soooo much easier.  had it done in a weekend and only had to buy 1 thing... the new AOD.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 20, 2009, 04:40:57 PM
Quote from: ~AC;262868
an AOD to AOD swap is soooo much easier.  had it done in a weekend and only had to buy 1 thing... the new AOD.

Whats a new one cost?
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 20, 2009, 05:01:32 PM
Block the throttle wide open(or have some one hold it), and adj the cable till it's short as possible... If it up shifts late/hard lengthen the cable till it's where you like it... This is how I've adjusted mine for years(this includes the totally stock ones) and I've never lost a AOD...
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: V8Demon on March 20, 2009, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;262872
Block the throttle wide open(or have some one hold it), and adj the cable till it's short as possible... If it up shifts late/hard lengthen the cable till it's where you like it... This is how I've adjusted mine for years(this includes the totally stock ones) and I've never lost a AOD...


...And this is PRECISELY how I do mine as well...

Which tail shaft governor do you have?
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 20, 2009, 06:16:51 PM
I pulled the tranny off my motor and the shaft on my tranny pulled right out, wanna trade?
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Lightningbird on March 20, 2009, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: 86XR7project;262891
I pulled the tranny off my motor and the shaft on my tranny pulled right out, wanna trade?


It's supposed to do that. That is the OD shaft, it slides in and out locking the torque converter.

The AOD can be a hairy bitch but it is mostly the issues of it being an 80's tranny that make it suck. No your AOD is not on the verge of puking. There is three things "EVERY" performance AOD needs. 1) Trans-Go Shift Kit. 2) Hardened input shaft from a reputable tranny company. 3) A governor spring swap.

You have the same combo I was using on the street and when an AOD is used...it attempts to always get gas milage. That's how it is programed...or built. That was the 80's stuff, that's how they all were. The shift kit will come close to eliminating this to a point, and that's where changing the springs on the governor is your only option. Try the shift kit first...if no joy the springs are the only choice. The shift kit is easier and does not require pulling the tranny too far apart. The governor springs will fix the problem, they are just a PITA to get to.

The tranny governor regulates fluid bypass to the valve body by centrifugal force of the output shaft. The spring pressures must be changed to accommodate the higher output shaft speed. This is mostly noticed when a rear gear change has happened. The output shaft speed is much higher at lower mph making the tranny shift way too soon. This is what is causing your lack of down shift.

Get a set of governor springs from the Ford dealer for a heavy van or truck with an AOD and 4.10 gears. The springs and corresponding shifts will be much more at home.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: vinnietbird on March 20, 2009, 07:55:14 PM
Quote from: ~AC;262868
an AOD to AOD swap is soooo much easier.  had it done in a weekend and only had to buy 1 thing... the new AOD.


We  did the 5 speed swap in mine in one day.We started at about 9 in the morning and finished around 2:00.That included lunch and all the BS we talk about when we get together.It's all a matter of personal taste though.Maybe a built AOD is in order,new converter,and some new gears for the rear (if you haven't already done that).
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 20, 2009, 08:05:06 PM
Never really had an AOD I ever had to work on......Now I feel like a moron.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: vinnietbird on March 20, 2009, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: 86XR7project;262925
Never really had an AOD I ever had to work on......Now I feel like a moron.


Never having to work on one is a good thing.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Haystack on March 20, 2009, 11:59:00 PM
before too long you will...
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: jcassity on March 21, 2009, 12:06:47 AM
sounds like you arent hitting the sweet spot on the cable setting.  Took me a long while to.

Check the trans side of the cable , inspect for binding , wear or whatever looks odd.

Also, take a pick of the lever with the car off and car in park

we can compare ours to your car incase something is off down south.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ~AC on March 21, 2009, 09:01:33 AM
i paid 275 for the AOD thats in the car.  cant remember what it came out of, the guy was basically a private ford junkyard b/c he drag raced. it had a shorter tail shaft, which wasnt a big deal b/c i just swapped it out.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 23, 2009, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;262872
Block the throttle wide open(or have some one hold it), and adj the cable till it's short as possible... If it up shifts late/hard lengthen the cable till it's where you like it... This is how I've adjusted mine for years(this includes the totally stock ones) and I've never lost a AOD...


Quote from: V8Demon;262884
...And this is PRECISELY how I do mine as well...

Which tail shaft governor do you have?


That's what I've been doing to no avail :hick:

The tail shaft governor is stock along with the rest of the AOD. From what I've seen in this thread the reason for the lack of correct downshift speed is the fact that I have 3.73 gears. So basicaly my AOD is fine and I need to upgrade/rebuild it to performance specs. Sweet.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ~AC on March 23, 2009, 07:05:48 PM
you know, i dont know why people say the AOD is so terrible.  go out to the car, rip out the oil cooler lines..  drive it 25 miles or till the transmission wont even move the car anymore.  reinstall those lines, perhaps with an auxiliary oil cooler, refill the transmission.. and you'll be suprised when the car comes back to life and lasts for 9-12 months.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: mcb82gt on March 23, 2009, 08:27:25 PM
Quote from: ~AC;263461
you know, i dont know why people say the AOD is so terrible.  go out to the car, rip out the oil cooler lines..  drive it 25 miles or till the transmission wont even move the car anymore.  reinstall those lines, perhaps with an auxiliary oil cooler, refill the transmission.. and you'll be suprised when the car comes back to life and lasts for 9-12 months.


UUUUhhhhhhhhhh ??
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 23, 2009, 08:39:15 PM
Somehow I think that would be a BAD IDEA.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 23, 2009, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: 86XR7project;263490
Somehow I think that would be a BAD IDEA.


x2
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Haystack on March 23, 2009, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: ~AC;263461
you know, i dont know why people say the AOD is so terrible.  go out to the car, rip out the oil cooler lines..  drive it 25 miles or till the transmission wont even move the car anymore.  reinstall those lines, perhaps with an auxiliary oil cooler, refill the transmission.. and you'll be suprised when the car comes back to life and lasts for 9-12 months.


An AOD is the pickiest transmission of any car I have ever driven. I think in there stock form they are a waste of time. Ever find one of these cars for $100 because the tranny went out? I'm not saying they can't be built up, but there almost worthless in stock form. I've never had a car lose overdrive because I hadn't broken 60 mph recentally, I've never had a car neutral rev the day after it performed fine, and still had good fluid in it. I've never had a transmission go bad after a filter change. Only on a AOD. I would really like to ditch mine. I'm not saying a 5-speed is the end all, or that an AOD can't be built, but overall they suck.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 24, 2009, 09:14:29 AM
Quote from: ~AC;263461
you know, i dont know why people say the AOD is so terrible.  go out to the car, rip out the oil cooler lines..  drive it 25 miles or till the transmission wont even move the car anymore.  reinstall those lines, perhaps with an auxiliary oil cooler, refill the transmission.. and you'll be suprised when the car comes back to life and lasts for 9-12 months.


That's a idiot post if I ever saw one.... What you smokin, shootin or drinkin???
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 24, 2009, 09:22:52 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;263587
That's a idiot post if I ever saw one.... What you smokin, shootin or drinkin???


:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ~AC on March 24, 2009, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;263587
That's a idiot post if I ever saw one.... What you smokin, shootin or drinkin???


:flame: umm.. riiiiiiight. :toilet:


Just wait till someone plays the "prank" on you.  you can reach those fittings on the transmission by just reaching under the car.  and that's exactly what someone did b/c i think it's 100% improbable that both fittings would blow at once without driving the car hard at all (i had no room, or right to drive stupid in traffic, at least hard enough to blow both fittings out screwing up the threads with a stock SO motor.)  when i finally got home, the car sat with a burned up trans for a couple months. i wasn't too optimistic b/c when i drained the transmission it looked like sand was in the oil there was so much friction material in it.  but i still went to summit and got an auxiliary oil cooler, the fittings and used dunlop hydrolic hose.  installed everything, refilled the trans.  I took it for a drive, and it slipped a little but came back like nothing had happened. :rollin: :rollin: :flip:
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 24, 2009, 01:21:42 PM
Um, you know tranny fluid IS important right?
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: V8Demon on March 24, 2009, 04:17:18 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;263587
That's a idiot post if I ever saw one.... What you smokin, shootin or drinkin???


(http://www.mikedownscenter.org/upload/images/Win%20button.jpg)

:rollin: :rollin:
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 24, 2009, 05:06:33 PM
Yea I LOVE my AOD. I have the cable pulled all the way out (tight) and the Baumann kit with everything maxed out. I may back the cable off a little because doing some reading on click click tells me the 20mph-1/8-pedal-tire-chirping 1-2 shift I love might actually blow apart the one way bearing or something. Which sucks but I dont wanna break stuff.
 
Between the hard-ass, QUICK shifting, and ridiculous response to pedal input for downshifting, especially out of OD (really couldnt believe the improvement I saw), I feel like Im driving a brand new Acura or something. Its just so crisp and snappy. I suppose it helps that the fluid was cherry red, always worked properly and must be fairly healthy. Just gotta tune em a little, I say.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 24, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
~AC + Friends = Bad transmission problems

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/scooters61/EpicFail.jpg)

This is obviously true.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 24, 2009, 05:30:42 PM
I think a few people missed the fact that someone sabotaged his car....he didn't disconnect the lines intentionally. :rollin:
 
 
Soooo....actually reading comprehension FAIL! :hick:
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Roehm on March 24, 2009, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: ZondaC12;263663
I think a few people missed the fact that someone sabotaged his car....he didn't disconnect the lines intentionally. :rollin:
 
 
Soooo....actually reading comprehension FAIL! :hick:


Thanks for pointing that out Zonda. It's odd that no one picked up on that earlier, sorry to hear that someone did that to you though ~AC.

Peace,
Dan
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 24, 2009, 08:56:25 PM
I can believe ~AC ran an AOD dry and refilled it and it kept going. Automatic transmissions are hydraulic pumps, not engines. An engine will continue running with no oil until it tears itself apart. An automatic tranny will only work until the fluid is gone, then it's in neutral. No fluid at all isn't as bad as low fluid, because no fluid at all will simply result in the clutches not engaging at all (you will experience brief slipping as the tranny pukes itself dry). Low fluid (or low fluid pressure) will result in them engaging, but not tight enough to hold. It's the slipping that kills automatic trannies.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend doing it on purpose, of course. I ran the C5 in my '85 V6 T-Bird dry after blowing the 0-ring at the cooler line fitting. I noticed the tranny slipping like hell while driving home. By the time I got home the tranny had no go at all, I literally had to coast down the road and use my momentum to get into the driveway. I jacked the car up, dropped the pan, nearly puked at the burned fluid smell, spent half a day trying to find out what that white "bobber" that was in the pan was, figured out it was not needed, sed the tar that was previously tranny fluid out of the pan, reinstalled it (didn't even change the filter, I thought the tranny was screwed anyway), filled it with fluid, and drove it for two more years. I traded it in on the '91, then came across it again several years later for sale. The guy had swapped a 302 in, but that old C5 was still plugging along.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 25, 2009, 08:44:17 AM
Quote from: ~AC;263616
:flame: umm.. riiiiiiight. :toilet:


Just wait till someone plays the "prank" on you.  you can reach those fittings on the transmission by just reaching under the car.  and that's exactly what someone did b/c i think it's 100% improbable that both fittings would blow at once without driving the car hard at all

Well sorry you had a problem, but would have been nice IF you'd mentioned it was vandalism instead of posting as if you were in a drunken stupor...

My car stays in the garage, I catch anybody in there, they'll come out in a body bag...
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 25, 2009, 08:58:04 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;263805
Well sorry you had a problem, but would have been nice IF you'd mentioned it was vandalism instead of posting as if you were in a drunken stupor...

My car stays in the garage, I catch anybody in there, they'll come out in a body bag...


Amen to that brother. You should have mentioned someone else messed with your ride. Instead you created the misconception that you were the one that did it, thus making us believe the "Lights are on but nobody's home".
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: ~AC on March 25, 2009, 10:49:24 AM
heh sorry, i forget sarcasm cant really be "heard" when youre only typing it.  i figured since it was so stupid of an "idea" that people would catch on that i was joking. i didnt just blow an o ring or anything, when i got the car home, after coasting in and having 3 other guys help me push the thing in to my apt complex i got under there and the hydrolic coolant lines were actually hanging under the car.  they were pulled clean out of the transmission.  and when i say "prank" i am giving who ever did it the benefit of the doubt they didnt cause catastrophic failure on purpose.  maybe im a bad at judging people's character.  i dont know who did it, and i wouldnt consider them friends.  infact i would prolly beat the  out of them if i knew who it was. but yeh like i said, i figured it sounded so stupid as a thing to do that it would have been obvious that i was joking...  i almost wish it wasnt so easy to get to those lines, and if i had the resources, i'd build a diamond plate shield to keep someone from reaching under there and doing it again.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: 86XR7project on March 25, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
I think you need a new group of friends. Might just solve your problem. Sounds to me like you pissed off the wrong person.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 25, 2009, 04:54:48 PM
You know this makes me wish I could rationally spend the cash to upgrade/replace my AOD right now. To get an AOD built to Lentech if not better specs by a local trans shop that specializes in AODs is about $2500 or so, and that would include a converter (2400-2600 stall Stallion) and instalation. The problem is I'd rather keep that $2500 in the bank. Perhaps I'm just greedy but as long as the  AOD works I might as well just wait till it blows up.;)
Title: Don't pass it up
Post by: t.birdsc on March 27, 2009, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;263897
You know this makes me wish I could rationally spend the cash to upgrade/replace my AOD right now. To get an AOD built to Lentech if not better specs by a local trans shop that specializes in AODs is about $2500 or so, and that would include a converter (2400-2600 stall Stallion) and instalation. The problem is I'd rather keep that $2500 in the bank. Perhaps I'm just greedy but as long as the  AOD works I might as well just wait till it blows up.;)


Check this one:http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1106927
That's you  dude :evilgrin: :burnout:  :evilgrin:
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: t.birdsc on March 27, 2009, 12:20:34 AM
Yelling like Arnold: "DOOO IT NAHOWAH"
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 27, 2009, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: t.birdsc;264190
Check this one:http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1106927
That's you  dude :evilgrin: :burnout:  :evilgrin:


Quote from: t.birdsc;264191
Yelling like Arnold: "DOOO IT NAHOWAH"


I'm not in a rush to spend money if I don't have to. The AOD works for now. I'll just wait till I blow it up and then get another AOD, but built up. ;)
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Haystack on March 27, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
for that money, you could have a viper spec t56 with the correct splines set up for your car.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Lightningbird on March 28, 2009, 01:53:58 AM
Why don't you spend the $500 now to get it right and it won't blow up costing you $2500. Is it just me or does that make too much sense?
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Lightningbird on March 28, 2009, 02:01:10 AM
Oh, wait...I'll be home on leave in June and I only live a couple of hours south of CHI-Town. If you want to come down to the farmlands, I'll sell you used stuff to help out the costs i.e. 2500 stall lock-up converter, TCI hardened input shaft, AOD shift kit (thats new...just never installed) and I think I still have a couple of filters for the AOD. When I blew up the second one, I went racing C-4. I just could not see the benefit in running an AOD in a race car when it costs $2500 for a Lentech and $1400 for a full race C-4.

It would be on you to get the governor springs changed. They were in the junk tranny....I saved nothing outta it...it was in really bad shape.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 28, 2009, 10:26:46 AM
Hmm what brand is the shift kit? I may be interested.

It's not that I don't have the money for an upgraded AOD it's the fact that I'm a little weary of spending the money for one when I have a house to worry about. I was saving money up last year for an AOD when the furnace went out. There went the trans money. I'd just like to have a bigger cushin before I blow money on "unessential" car parts. The trans should hold as is for another year as I don't plan on racing it at the track this summer. I have to get the trans fixed up, 24lb injectors, and a MAF to match first before I go back.
Title: Oh AOD how I hate thee...
Post by: Lightningbird on April 02, 2009, 03:05:01 AM
That's good. I will not be home until June. That would give you some time to save up.
It's a Trans-Go Shift Kit, still in the box never used. The hardened input shaft is TCI and the Converter is a 2500 Lock-Up TCI with Anti-Ballooning plate. All for AOD.

I also have some injectors...Dude.. I have got almost anything you need for your car. MAF's (3 kinds), Injectors...19's, 24's and 30's. I have got a complete wiring harness, computer, wheels (snowflake, convo-pro's, 10 holes, Fox police car wheels), 2 complete Nitrous Kits (one ford GT-40/cobra style, one carbed), a complete SO running motor, tranny, and computer. Soon to have tons of body panels from a cali bird w/ 70K miles and interior pieces. TC hood and beat up front bumper and cover. Just let me know what you want. It's all used stuff....it all needs to go. Got to unload this stuff.