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Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: pegasus on March 17, 2009, 02:20:45 PM

Title: Name That Sender
Post by: pegasus on March 17, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
bought a used 91

that was a project with some lose ends..this is one of them

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/winkysrides/91%20sport%20bird/whatsender.jpg)

it was just siting on the lower intake
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: dominator on March 17, 2009, 03:33:01 PM
Intake air sensor.
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: pegasus on March 17, 2009, 05:26:10 PM
do i need it??
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: Chuck W on March 17, 2009, 05:38:23 PM
yes
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 17, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
Yep, though the ECU will go into "failure mode" and assume like 150F for the intake aircharge temperature all the time if you don't have one or it's failed.
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 20, 2009, 02:24:40 PM
Just wonering but if the ACT sensor is just laying on the engine what is plugging the hole in the lower intake where it goes? :confused:
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: jcassity on March 21, 2009, 03:32:39 AM
probably another ACT

with it hanging there, its likely just barely changing resistance values enough for the eec to control fuel demand.

Pull codes and you might see fuel related Rich/lean issues.

per the diy link below.........
ACT sensor test ,,,feeds the computer
Resistance test pin to pin of the sensor (this is a variable resister proportional to temperature including outside air temp if the motor is cold)
at 50degF=58K ohms
at 65degF=40K ohms
at 180degF=3.6K ohms
at 220degF=1.8K ohms
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 21, 2009, 11:14:34 AM
ACT has little effect on fuel demand - it just effects whether Adaptive Learning will be enabled (>100F) & some spark adjustments at high temps. ECT controls fueling exclusively during warmup etc.
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: jcassity on March 21, 2009, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;263029
ACT has little effect on fuel demand - it just effects whether Adaptive Learning will be enabled (>100F) & some spark adjustments at high temps. ECT controls fueling exclusively during warmup etc.


I am not sure why you say the above but its not correct.

The ACT has much to do with fuel mgmt as ref air temp changes.  The ECT is married up with the ACT in order to simply improve response time on data and provide the EEC with a more accurate input.

The ECT is more or less the second set of eyes out in the field for the boss (EEC) while the ACT is considered the primary input.

they both work together to manage fuel (maybe other things) with respect to engine air and coolant temps.

Simply saying the ACT has no roll after warm up reduces its purpose and tells everyone "i dont need that part"
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 22, 2009, 12:55:40 AM
Quote from: jcassity;263049
I am not sure why you say the above but its not correct.

The ACT has much to do with fuel mgmt as ref air temp changes.  The ECT is married up with the ACT in order to simply improve response time on data and provide the EEC with a more accurate input.

The ECT is more or less the second set of eyes out in the field for the boss (EEC) while the ACT is considered the primary input.

they both work together to manage fuel (maybe other things) with respect to engine air and coolant temps.

Simply saying the ACT has no roll after warm up reduces its purpose and tells everyone "i dont need that part"


You absolutely need the ACT if you want your engine to be able to adapt to different fuel and other variables like sensor drift over time.

I never once implied that you don't need it, I simply said that the ACT sensor is not used to determine fueling for warm up, when to go closed loop etc. - that's exclusively controlled by the ECT temperature. Now, Ford could have used the the ACT temperature as part of the calculation using the proportioning scalars below, but they chose not to.

As you can see below, in every case the proportioning factor is set such that ECT is used exclusively.

Quote
FRCBFT = 0.0000

FRCBFT - Fuel - Base Fuel ACT to ECT Proportional Mult
The ACT to ECT proportioning factor used to determine the fraction of
  ACT to ECT that will be used in the columns of the Base Fuel table FN1307.
  The resulting fraction will get passed to the scaling function FN022.

Formula:
[FRCBFT*ACT+(1-FRCBFT)*ECT]
FRCBFT of 0 indicates that table columns will be 100% ECT.
FRCBFT of 1 indicates that table columns will be 100% ACT.
Any FRCBFT value between 0 and 1 results in a value that represnets both ACT and ECT.


Quote
FRCBFT   =   0.0000

FRCSFT - Fuel - Startup Fuel ACT to ECT Proportional Mult
The ACT to ECT proportioning factor used to determine the fraction of
  ACT to ECT that will be used in the columns of the Statup Fuel table FN1306.
  The resulting fraction will get passed to the scaling function FN022.

Formula:
[FRCSFT*ACT+(1-FRCSFT)*ECT]
FRCSFT of 0 indicates that table columns will be 100% ECT.
FRCSFT of 1 indicates that table columns will be 100% ACT.
Any FRCSFT value between 0 and 1 results in a value that represnets both ACT and ECT.


Quote
FRCTAE = 0.0000

FRCTAE - Accel Fuel ACT to ECT Proportional Mult
The ACT to ECT proportioning factor used to determine the fraction of
  ACT to ECT that will be used in the rows of the Accel Fuel table FN1303.
  The resulting fraction will get passed to the scaling function FN020B.

Formula:
[FRCTAE*ACT+(1-FRCTAE)*ECT]
FRCTAE of 0 indicates that table rows will be 100% ECT.
FRCTAE of 1 indicates that table rows will be 100% ACT.
Any FRCTAE value between 0 and 1 results in a value that represents both ACT and ECT


Quote
ALPHA   = 0.0000

ALPHA - Fuel - Transient Fuel ACT to ECT Proportional Mult
The ACT to ECT proportioning factor used to determine the fraction of
  ACT to ECT that will be used in the columns of the Transient Fuel tables FN1321 & FN1322.
  The resulting fraction will get passed to the scaling function FN022.

Formula:
[ALPHA*ACT+(1-ALPHA)*ECT]
ALPHA of 0 indicates that table columns will be 100% ECT.
ALPHA of 1 indicates that table columns will be 100% ACT.
Any ALPHA value between 0 and 1 results in a value that represnets both ACT and ECT.
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: jcassity on March 22, 2009, 01:43:40 AM
dood,, your going to a level of detail that isnt needed. 
You simply stated the ACT has very little to do with fuel demand.

the "revised" Emissions shop manual controdicts your statement.  Thats what I can spell out , nothing more , nothing less.

The Emissions shop manual simply says the act does xyz and the ECT fine tunes for performance.

Maybe your source is for later revisions of EEC tables?
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 22, 2009, 10:30:21 AM
Quote from: jcassity;263146
dood,, your going to a level of detail that isnt needed. 
You simply stated the ACT has very little to do with fuel demand.

the "revised" Emissions shop manual controdicts your statement.  Thats what I can spell out , nothing more , nothing less.

Actually, it's contradicts, so you're not spelling it out very well. :shakeass:

Quote
The Emissions shop manual simply says the act does xyz and the ECT fine tunes for performance.

Maybe your source is for later revisions of EEC tables?

Dunno about the Emissions manual, but I do know that he has a MAF 'cause I looked in the signature of the thunderjet person you responded to before posting, thus I used a A9X processor as an example. The detail was necessary since I helped develop the definition file for this processor and you said I was "wrong".
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: jcassity on March 24, 2009, 09:10:37 AM
yes, mass air would contradict everything i said.  Pegasus is probably the same so sorry for the bad post.  I didnt notice pegasus had a 95 either.

stock form makes the act work per the shop manual, modfied mass air would negate this.
Title: Name That Sender
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 25, 2009, 06:55:14 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;263188




Dunno about the Emissions manual, but I do know that he has a MAF 'cause I looked in the signature of the thunderjet person you responded to before posting, thus I used a A9X processor as an example. The detail was necessary since I helped develop the definition file for this processor and you said I was "wrong".


Uh I know what the ACT looks like/is for. I didn't ask the question [SIZE="3"]pegasus[/SIZE][/I][/B] did. I just wanted to know what was plugging the hole in his lower intake ;)
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