Hi my name is Scott, and I am a Tbirdaholic. Here is my build thread estimated to take about 4 or 5 years. I don't want to know how much it costs. I mentioned I would start this thread when I had my flathead tore apart for my other project, a 1948 F1 pickup. Well today, 3-16-09, I found my engine is toast. So on we go. :) Up to this point I have been doing research and gathering some parts. The goal is to create a street car that can embarrass ricers at will. I have no idea how fast this car will go with the "boat anchor" I am using. I am a truck guy not a car guy, so my claim is "Torque First". I will add to this thread when I can, but it should be understood with today's economy, it will be slow. Wish me luck, eh. :o
Good luck.Are you SURE you don't want to install a built 5.0?
First pic is the car when Mike, AKA FLSTCI71, told me had a car for sale. I told him to do whatever he wanted with it first, and I would take the shell afterward. The second pic is from the day he delivered it.
I'm working towards a retro muscle car theme. Besides, I like to think outside the box and be different.
I forgot to mention, it is a 1987 Turbo Coupe with sunroof, and nothing else, lol.
LOL, Scott but remember pics are needed every so often man. :headbang:
Here's how it sits now.
Scott, Simple start out with slot A going into slot B and etc. j/k :evilgrin:
while you got it all apart, you may want to throw a bunch of paint on the under side and clean up the engine bay. Make sure it won't rust on you after your done.
Straight looking body, and an empty shell is the best place to start. That way you know what shape every part is in when it gets thrown in.
i-4's I really could see being fun, but a stock 5.0 , non-mustang, has more torque. You will be looking at a custom cam if thats what you want to accomplish, if I had to bet.
I intend to fill all the holes in the engine bay, repair the rust, and make it look clean as possible. The rest of the car will be treated as well. I intend to install SFC's, and jack rails, then onto the rotiserrie. This will get the full treatment, though in comparison, daminc's car has more rust, lol.
Of course it does. I'm sure mine was one of the worst cars for rust on this site. Wish you were closer with that rotisserie though.
If that car is from MN it's in pretty good shape.
What engine are you going to use? A 351C/351M/400 family engine?
Sorry I got side-tracked for a bit. Weather is sucking again so not much going on, but I got this freed up. :D
Ya know theres an old saying "Real cars have no valve covers.". Whats the flattie going in, I assume the 48?
Yes. I had got it with the truck, but was stuck. The other engine I got afterward was the first one I took apart and found nasty cracks. Then I took the heads off this one and saw how clean it was. Still was stuck, but after I removed the transmission it spun freely, even though the trans was in neutral. I can breathe a little easier now, lol. So this will sit in the corner until I get the frame blasted and epoxy primed, then I can start the reassembly (frame is bare waiting) Once the weather warms up again (10F windchill), I"ll get to mocking up the C4.
Very cool, you don't see a whole lot of people build flatties. My prob with em is they don't put out much power at all before they are known to grenade.
I heard you can get really good power out of them and that they were way overbuilt from theg factory...
I would love to throw something like that in a cougar.
I wouldn't count on much more than 200 HP if you're lucky. I've seen em blow up clutches at 250-300 hp!
As it currently sits, it likely won't see much more than 100 hp. I plan on a 2x2 bbl intake or a single 4 bbl intake, aftermarket heads, and a Pertronix ignition w/12 volt conversion. Behind it will be a T5 from an S10, and 9" rear w/3.25 gears. But the cool factor will be high, and the sound is irreplaceable :D But that's why I'm building the Tbird....for speed.
Here's an article about the faltheads, some are putting out up to 700HP, yikes!!!:bowdown:
you're really gonna do it aren't you?
Steeper gears would make it feel a bit more upity but thats me. I love flatties they sound so unique!
Been working on the honey-do list, and decided to take a day off to do my own work, so: C4 is mocked up in its place. Lo and behold, this car has two sets of brackets for the crossmember. The one I have is a double hump from the '87 XR7 5.0/AOD. It fits the forward brackets, but there's a little slop there. Secondly, with everything mocked up, I decided to try the headers. Notice there isn't any room. So next thing to do is try my stock manifolds, and see if they clear. Other option is the tubular K-member, but I'm trying not to spend too much before knowing if this will work or not. My guess is the Fox 351C headers are designed strictly for Mustang K's.
FWIW, I nixed the T5 idea for the '48. The more I thought about it, and the harder it seems to find the right T5 up here in 4x4 land, I think I'd rather be a double clutchin' fool.
Located a Mustang K from an '85 GT for free. Problem is it's still in the car in a field. So I will try to get it sometime this Summer. I say that because it hasn't been warm yet this year. :( current windchill is 23F and raining. WTF??
So I put the Tbird back on its skates and rolled it to the back wall....waiting. :(
Maybe i missed something....... thats not a 302 in ur bird is it??????im thinking 351???? Not too good at judging motors all torn apart....yet.....and is that the block ur using????.... its obviously being bored......0.30???
All '87-'88 TC have the double crossmember mount arrangement... The rearward one is for the goofy member a long ass A4LD requires...
Are there car rotisseries one can rent?
Not sure. Call yer local rental outfit and see if they can get one.
Mine's under a friends firebird right now. The body guy he has doing the work is taking alot longer than hoped for. Perhaps I should build another. :rolleyes: It's all out of 2x4 box tube and 6x1/2 flatbar, with 2x2 tube for bracing.
It's a 351m already bored .030" that's been sitting outside rusting away for years. A friend of mine used to work at an automotive machine shop, and a patron never payed for it , so he kept it and dropped it off at my house. It's not the one I'm using. I'm using a Tim Meyer prepped 434cid that has the same external dimensions. The difference between these engines and 351C's is the distributor base has a 1" rise in the casting for the 400. With certain intake and other parts, it can be converted to EFI to net a documented 15 mpg, yet maintain about 500hp and 500ft lbs over the entire rpm range. Problem is it costs $$$, yet less than a built 460. Plus I already have a couple 400's for donors. But as I mentioned before, I will not compromise on this car and will build it the way I envisioned it, even though it may take a while thanks to my current job status. The 351W I had as an alternate for this car is going into my '62 fairlane that I pushed into the garage the other day. I'm currently drilling out the spotwelds right now, but here's a pic from June 3rd. The Frame is my F1 waiting for sandblasting.
Thanks! makes sense. I set the double hump I have from the 302 Xr7 up in there, and it seemed close, but looking at the rearward ones, I was simply confounded, lol.
Snagged this hood for $50.
if that hood isn't rusted the 71-73 guys will pay pretty good for it.
pimp
and i dont say that alot
No progress update. :( But tearing down my old house, I'm now down to the "Tbird" room. That last section is chocked full of Tbird parts and will stay that way as a storage shed. Next is working my way back removing the floor and frame, and clean-up. The wife will be so happy. :punchballs: Then I can get back to the fun stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22LSOyyeq_Q
Hey the most important part is still therer!!! lol//...... jeeze.. no house... ouch...bet the new one will be cool....
I really hope you have a NEW house to live in, or she's gonna be really pissed
I don't remember if I mentioned a coworker had an '85 Mustang GT out at his parent's house. He said I could have it for the parts. I was eager to get the K-member to see if my engine would clear with the headers I had, since they won't clear mine. I finally got out there today. Nobody was home, so I took a walk down the trail for what seemed like forever in this heat and humidity. I found the car, but the front was sawed off, and no suspension or K. :( So back to the drawing board again. Anyone with a Stang style K-member? No coin to buy a tubular yet.
Well that really sucks.
I kinda know a mustang guy. I can see if he has one, but shipping would suck.
CCX freight collect to my workplace is the cheapest way to go. Just need it on a pallet, plastic wrapped or some other means of securing it down, and brought to a freight terminal. 400 lb engine is about $80.00
I'll ask my son to see if he has one.
Needs to be a fox K member only?
83-86.5 tbird/cougar or fox mustang.
got it
Funny how plans change.
what's the story morning glory?
LOL
Mine changed about 20x up to this point. And may have another one that will slow down my painting plans.
Mine hasn't really changed, just...you know, I move like molasses in January. :rollin:
Kinda hard to do very much while I'm watchin' the little man lol.
time for another visit already? :D:D
Instead of a street/strip car like I had originally planned, it looks like it will end up as my daily driver. Not a bad thing, really. Jeep still runs, but it recently showed signs of transmission failure. :( Just hope I get the car put together in time. None of the other projects are nearly as done, so...
Finally sold the Saturn, and that freed up a bit to get an '84 Mustang GT K-member/arms/struts/etc... assembly (picked up last night). Been a sucky October weatherwise. Thought things over, and I'll continue with the original plan. Since the yard-truck failed last Spring, and the Jeep still goes, I figure why not find a replacement yard truck, and not worry about needing a new DD in the gas/economical sense.
Good deal, glad you found your front stuff. A long time ago, in my sport thread, you asked about the blue parcel tray/rear deck carpet. Still want/need it? I hate to throw it out when it could be used, and you have dibs....I'll take some pics, but it's in pretty good shape. I also have some other blue stuff, but not sure exactly what and in what shape off the top of my head...you know...work was about 92 hours tonight lol
Well, I'm picking up where I left off. I just have to remember where, lol. Anyhow, got the car drug out of the woods, and up to the garage.
Well, finding it in the woods was a good start back into the project.
Hey I've got a 5.0L K member from my 88 XR7 you can pretty much have here in Iowa, if you want to come get it. It's from a Texas car, so no rust. PM me if you're interested. There's a pic on Waterloo craigslist.
Glad to see you haven't lost interest in it. Have you done anything with the F1?
F1 is a bare frame waiting for sandblasting. I was going to have the local bodyshop do it, but since decided to do it myself, as it should pay for itself in the end with all of the other projects in waiting. I've been looking at the dual soda/sand blaster from Eastwood.
I recently picked up an F6 parts truck, and have been stripping that down for parts. The fairlane is pushed outside so that the trailer I got recently can be finished, and put under that car. That leaves me the Tbird to mess around with. I have plenty of little things I can do such as rewiring, seats, interior trim, etc...
I wish I could find a Thunderbird in the woods!!!!! :( :hick:
As if it never left, lol.
"like"
lol :rollin:
Is it a TC with swapped wheels/struts, or just have TC molding on?
Looks like a good body :D
1987 TC. I had stripped down an '87 XR7 some years ago now, and those are the wheels I threw on to roll it in.
An idea flashed in my rather dull brain on the motor mount problem, so I hope to get going on that part soon.
You've got the pre '86 K member right? Use that and stang mounts...or there's Chuck's, or fab up a plate..?
Well, the slip-tube headers are a no go. Designed for a 351C into a Fox, they just aren't made to clear when moved outboard an inch or so. Doesn't help that the bellhousing/starter/flexplate are a bigger diameter neither. On the other hand, I think I've got a plan for the motor mounts.
stock cast '78 4x4 F150 manifolds: right side, nay. left side, maybe with a MM steering shaft. $$$
Well, I think I got one figured out. Just need to fasten everything down, and maybe even tack some welds between the mount and plate.
whats the difference from the 351c and the 351w
The "W" is very similar to the 302/5.0 the "C" is totally different
This is neither engine. Hopefully it ends up like this:
hummm so very little modding to the actual car becides shimming the k member.
It oughta have plenty of grunt....but i'm sure you know they don't like to rev too high though.
Reminds me of a kid that used to work at apex....he was a strictly chevy kinda guy, but he caved in, bought a 77 f-150, had the 351m/400......he thought he could run the piss out of it and rev it to hell and gone like you can a SBC....when he stuck 2 rods through pan he decided then and there that all Ford engines were junk.
Not that those engines are bad, they're just not meant to rev like that unless built for it.
Anyway, more pics as progress elapses! :bowdown::D
Started on the driver side mount. Funny that a 60's right side Mustang mount fits so dang close, only off 90 degrees (and lower half backwards), and I don't have a driver side to try. I have to fight the offset of the car type mounts (steering clearance) vs. the side interchangeable truck mounts, so things will be a little wonky on this side.
Chuck's lower mount half was the hot ticket. His holes lined up with the K-member, and a 70's truck 302 mount capture bolt at the same time. All I needed was a 1/4" block plate, and an extra set of holes for the 302 mount to bolt to the plate.
Scott, lookin' good! Before you go through all the work of getting that motor in there, did you know a 302 would bolt right in? lol.
What's a 302? Well I got the engine and trans in, as the pics show. The P-side truck mount is broken, so I'll have to replace that, and see if the rubber pulls....which tells me the engine is too high for the lower mount to fit. I can wallow the K-member hole a little more, I suppose. Opinions welcome on that.
why don't you just remake the area where the motor mounts bolt on the k member to match the motor?
I'm trying to make it reversible in case someone, or I, want to put the 4 cyl or Windsor back in. Everything else lines up, and since the K-member hole is slotted already, I would just slot it some more. Or is that what you were referring to?
EDIT: I should mention the rubber pulled apart when I was lifting the engine with the mount still bolted in, not from just sitting there, but the lower mount part does have to rotate clockwise a bit to fit the bolt.
Oh, that's the long hole for the mounts.. I would just improve that one if that's all it needs. if it gets to close to an edge. I would make a reinforcing plate to strengthen anything you removed.
Jerry, I'll second the reinforcement idea, thanks. Heck, I may do it anyway just in case I get too heavy on the throttle, lol. I hope the mount itself will be the first to "give", which is what I want, since that's the easiest part to replace.
I'm also currently waiting for Tim Meyer to get back to me about the Kevko oilpan, and the clearance I'll need. I got about 6.75" or so from the high point on the K-member to the bottom of the block-to-oilpan surface. R&P might be another issue, though these pans are made for Clevelands into Foxes.
Motor plate, problem solved.
Haven't posted on this project in quite awhile. Haven't posted much on the site neither. With some issues that popped up this year, I don't expect to be able to work on the car in the next 4-6 years, so I will call this project on hold. I hope I don't lose the car, but will try my best to keep it.... this is one project I've been dreaming up for quite awhile, and would hate to see it not finished. Later.
EDIT 9-17-2011: That post was made shortly after I got notified that MN re-instated their child support payments 8 years after I was told I was done. (she moved out of country) I was also told 8 years of back support due. With the economic hard times and recession taking its toll already, with this added on, I was stuck being broke. Here we are a year later, and I got out of paying back the 8 years' worth. They do take out current support from my paycheck, but it picked up from the previous amount prior to the 8 years. So with 1 year gone already, I have just under 3 years to go until she's 18. I've never met her, but in MN, it doesn't matter. The father pays regardless. Anyway, with things getting back on track, I've found the 351C manifolds I wanted, and am now in search of a 351C fox swap oil pan. With that, I can finalize the clearance issues, and then go on to building the car.
4-6 years? Wow, sorry to hear that. I am going through a rough patch at work right now and don't have time for toys, but I am hoping for relief in a couple of months. 4-6 years would kill me. If there is anything we can do to help, let us know.
sure, If you need stuff for it, just ask. I'll give you anything I got for it.
Early Stang 351C exhaust manifolds.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn337/havi_62meteor/1987%20Tbird%20project/9152011004fb.jpg)
Finally got a set, and by the looks of them, I think they just might fit.
Been spending a lot of time thinking about this project, and after surveying my other projects, I've decided to not buck the trend with a stroked 400 (434cid), and instead go with something more simple and street worthy. I had intentions of taking this car down the strip, but I think I'll save that for a day when I win the lottery.
been awhile (again!) and now I have a free 351W block coming my way. I'm considering going 393W stroker.
Engine will be carbed, and AOD will be used, using Lokar carb adapter.
Post edit: I'm already talking myself out of the Clevor idea, lol. I'll set the block in with the 400's heads to check for exhaust clearance and go from there.
http://www.mustangsacrossamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?1756-Edelbrock-302-Clevor-build
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/clevor-boss-106289-3.html
I dunno, I could go either way.
Get an AODE from a newer vehicle and a stand alone controller...
Other than that, that's close to what my final goal is, only with efi.
I'd love to to have a Clevor 393 or so...someday..
... and so it's been four years. Car is still here in the backyard next to the Fairlane, waiting its turn. :)
So drop a clevor in it already :p.
I'm doing a gt40 swap and already done my t-5 and I'm pretty famous for never getting anything done...