Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 09:02:34 PM

Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 09:02:34 PM
i have a 1988 mercury cougar i bought like 3 years ago. it had no headlights and needed the whole front headlight display (not sure wut its called xactly) but i couldnt find the exact part ANYWHERE but i found a 1995 front header pannel with the lights and everything at a salvage yard. the lights where totally diffrent so we cut and re-wired the lighting to fit the 95 lights... BIIG MISTAKE:punchballs: then everything else electrical went bonkers the tail lights stoped working the blinkers stoped working and wires shortd out and burned out now almost nothing eletrical works im only 17 so dont really know what im doin but i could problly learn does ANYBODY know what i should do????
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 09:17:23 PM
yes,
find the correct front clip for starters.

next, go to electrical tech and look into the sticky for the EVTM.  Find the wiring diagrams you need.

link up with someone who is good with wiring and able to read schematics.

if you are comfortable with this, then make sure you have a meter,,a cheapy needle meter will do for what you are doing.

let us know what you want to do,,doit youself or someone else.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 10:13:41 PM
someone else if i can find some one who knows how to do it, but if not ill have to try it myself.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 10, 2009, 10:14:25 PM
That might have been a bad decision. The front ends don't even match.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 10:46:08 PM
yea it was a bad decision but cant it be fixed by getting the right front end?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 10, 2009, 10:51:33 PM
Well that would be a step in the right direction but you've made a big mess of things that is going to take time to get sorted out correctly.:slap: there is no easy fix, just ask alot of questions and post pictures and we will help all we can.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 10, 2009, 11:09:50 PM
If i decide to part my car out,(87 cougar, same header panel) I'll keep you in mind if you are interested i could get you the wiring and headlights and everything you would need, just send me a pm.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:12:02 PM
uuuuggghh!! i cant find the electrical diagram i need!!:mad:
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:15:43 PM
thanx u guys ill defenatly be asking alot of questions and ill post pics now.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: HAVI on March 10, 2009, 11:20:15 PM
printing off the wiring diagrams here, or buying a Haynes Manual is a good start. Patience is a virtue when it come to electrical problems.  If it were me, the first thing I would do is get the proper year light bulbs for everything, assuming you still have the original sockets.  Hook it all back together, IE undo what you did before.  And then see if everything works again.  I'm thinking you blew fuses and breakers under the dash from crossing the wires, but having everything wired back to original will let you figure that out.  If all the wiring is fixed, then it's a matter of waiting until you have the right header panel and headlights, etc...  I have a maroon header panel but it's got a crack if you can't get one from closer by, but no headlights.  Good luck.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
this one?
I'm not sure where you cut wires.
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f162/jcassity_bucket/?action=view¤t=pg90.jpg (http://"http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f162/jcassity_bucket/?action=view¤t=pg90.jpg")
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:21:27 PM
your so full of it!!!:rollin:
the whole evtm is posted,, the 88 and 87 are gonna be the same basic wiring setup.

brb
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:25:33 PM
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff189/donneii/IMAGE_00001.jpg

here's the mess ill post pics of the wireing and all the other problems 2marrow the wires in the center console even burned out and started smoking!!
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:25:52 PM
go here
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=20492


go to the index
look for the page number

find the page
save as
open and adjust the view.

All the pages for the most part are in fairly good shape.

why would you question if a front piece would/would not be a good start?

If you need a speed rush crash course on how to use a meter,, go to my diy link,, find my ph#,  I will give you a quick crash course with a couple of hands on tasks to get you comfortable with the tool.  from there, you will be expected to be able to
-measure voltage for both AC and DC
-Measure continuity and resistance
no certificate for passing but it would make a nice resume bullet.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:29:45 PM
about the pic you tried to post.

save as a .jpg file
open with ms picture manager
resize until its less than 145kb

on here,,,
click edit
go to manage attachmetns
remove the failed attachement

to upload the new resized jpg while in manage attachements
click browse, find the file, double click it
and let it upload
close manage attachement window
click submit message
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: HAVI on March 10, 2009, 11:32:17 PM
fuzzy pic or not, that didn't look like a 90's grille to me ?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 10, 2009, 11:33:28 PM
Do You have that car for sale on craigslist?

http://memphis.craigslist.org/cto/1063397419.html (http://"http://memphis.craigslist.org/cto/1063397419.html")
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:34:36 PM
my mistake its a 1985 header
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2009, 11:35:14 PM
Quote from: HAVI;260721
fuzzy pic or not, that didn't look like a 90's grille to me ?


me either
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:36:08 PM
yes its on craigslist, my mother did it she didnt think i was going to do anything with it because its been sitting in the driveway for over a year
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 10, 2009, 11:36:50 PM
Keep her alive man
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:37:53 PM
one wire at a time man,,

thats an 88car?

i agree, its an 85 or 86 header.  grille can be misleading.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:41:19 PM
the more i think about it the more i think the front end could stay on board. 

we have had 87/88 headers grafted onto 86 and down cars.  the reverse is obviously an option.

we could just move forward with what you have if you like.  A bulb is a bulb, and generally the older sockets like we have are fairly cookie cutter with respect to pin outs.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:44:18 PM
if it can be done im willing to try it out
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: HAVI on March 10, 2009, 11:46:18 PM
I'm going to bed, but keep at it, it'll get done.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:50:39 PM
get yourself a meter,,

cheapy ones can be had (needle type) which in all reality are actually the best.

when you have a meter, get back to us.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 10, 2009, 11:52:13 PM
ok thanx alot:bowdown:
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2009, 11:55:01 PM
make a friend going to navy aviation electricians mate or aviation electronics,  or an electricians mate school.

you can find em next door in  millington tn.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 11, 2009, 09:41:42 AM
Wiring that '85 front clip onto your '87 car should be quite easy. Just do it bulb by bulb. Take each bulb you want to connect, find the wires you're connecting to it, and connect 'em. One at a time. A breakdown of what you'll need to do:

Headlights:
In the car's headlight harness you should find a black wire, a red wire with black stripe, and a light green wire with black stripe. On your '85 header panel the outermost headlights (ones closest to the corners of the car) will need all three wires connected. The innermost headlights (ones closest to the grille) will need only black and light green/black wires connected. Since the original only had two headlights (one on each side) you will need to add the light green/black wire and black wire to jump over to the inner headlight on each side.

Left (Driver's) park lights (one in the bumper, one at the corner)
:

Find the brown wire in your car's harness. This wire must be split so that you can connect the corner light to it as well as the park/turn light in the bumper. You might find two brown wires (this is normal), in which case run one to the corner, one to the bumper. MAKE SURE you connect it to the proper place in the bumper light - there will be three wires for the bumper light, one for park (This is the one you want), one for ground, and one for turn signal (which we'll cover next).

Left (Driver's) turn signal:

Find the light green/white wire in the car's existing harness. This is the right turn signal wire. Re-route it down to the turn signal light in the bumper and connect it there (you may have to extend the wire by adding a piece to it).

Now run a ground wire to the bumper light and corner light and you're finished that side.

The procedure for the right side would be the same, except you're using a white wire with light blue stripe for the turn signals

Here is a diagram for how your headlights should be wired (park and turn signals are not shown in this diagram, sorry). You are only concerned with the stuff left of the black line labeled "firewall".
(http://www.foxthundercats.net/tech/8386lights.jpg)
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: vinnietbird on March 11, 2009, 09:51:14 AM
Can you just swap on a harness from donor car along with the right header panel and lights?It takes time.If the car has been sitting for a year,a little longer shouldn't hurt anything.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 11, 2009, 09:57:02 AM
Lets face it, you made a stupid mistake, but you are a smart kid and you will be able to sort this out if you take your time. Just go slow and take your time because if you rush this, its going to get screwed up again. You're more than likely going to have a bunch of burned out fuses also when your done. If you want to find the correct parts try using http://www.car-parts.com (http://"http://www.car-parts.com") to find what you need nearest to you.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 11, 2009, 11:11:02 AM
The guy from yesterday that's parting his 87 cougar out is going to sell it to me so I'm just going to take all the parts and wires I need from there and put them on my 88
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 11, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
20thanniversary? Yeah he's a good guy. Just keep in contact with us and we will try to help to the best of our ability, you chose a good car, just made a bad mistake.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 11, 2009, 03:56:34 PM
Screw the EVTM, I'm asking thunder chicken.
Cant beat that wiring diagram. and it's in color!
It does seem to me maybe someone may have hooked the battery terminals up wrong?
Since so much smoke came from everywhere.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 11, 2009, 04:55:27 PM
well i guess we'll continue this after 20thanniversary andi work something out about his cougar id rather have the actual header that belongs there if availible so ill just wait for him
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: Haystack on March 11, 2009, 09:59:49 PM
why not buy his 87 cougar?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 11, 2009, 10:00:52 PM
Sounds like the sale of his car is pending
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 11, 2009, 11:22:16 PM
im going to but his 87 saturday hopefully
it has something wrong with the linkage in the transmission
dnt know how much thats going to cost to fix
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 11, 2009, 11:32:33 PM
Like I said, its not broken or anything, just needs re-adjusting, its not that bad a problem. BTW,You have a pm;)
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 12, 2009, 09:26:50 AM
He'll take good care of you. That'd be a pretty good car to play around with.... No more cutting wires though!
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 16, 2009, 07:45:58 PM
ok you guys i found the right front header pannell but now i need the wireing re done. i stripped everything out of the car. dash, seats and carpet. the whole fuse box is melting and a lota wires are melted too, a few good wires but not many.. theres an 87 cougar at a local salvage place. a "u-pull-it" id have to pull the wires out of the salvage car myself. should i just un-plug the wires from the harnesess under the hood and just plug them to the same harnesess under my hood or how should i go about doing this??
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 16, 2009, 07:52:12 PM
Best thing to do As I think, would be to pull them one by one make sure the color of the wires that you pull match the wires that you are replacing. Try not to cut anything if you don't have to, If you do, use electrical connectors instead of just tape.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 16, 2009, 08:04:43 PM
its at a salvage yard and my car cant move so i dont know exactly wich ones i need and wich ones i dont. but theres a bunch of harnesses under the hood that lead through a hole in the firewall that goes into the firewall so can i just unplug them and pull them out through the firewall and reconnect the new set the same way??
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 16, 2009, 08:08:28 PM
Yea, you should be able to. What size motor do you have?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 16, 2009, 08:14:44 PM
3.8 v6
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 16, 2009, 08:15:45 PM
And the wires your pulling is from a 3.8 also right?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 16, 2009, 08:18:20 PM
not even sure ill go back to the salvage yard and look 2marow but im not sure if that car even had a motor in it
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 16, 2009, 08:22:26 PM
Well if it's from a 5.0, most of the wires won't work i think, at least the engine harness.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: Rcarder407 on March 16, 2009, 08:26:17 PM
Just look at the vin # to see if its a V6 or V8 car. The 8th digit is the engine code. The V8 car had a "F" and the V6 had "3 or 4". Good luck
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: Haystack on March 16, 2009, 09:48:40 PM
I also heard that the 88 v-6 wiring harness is very close to the same as an 88 5.0. If there is any way to do it, I would get one out of at least an 88car. I would definately make sure it is a v-6 if it were me, mostly because that engine and electronics set up was only done for 1 year.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: softtouch on March 16, 2009, 09:56:57 PM
Pre 88 3.8L are CFI or carb. The 88 3.8L is EFI.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 16, 2009, 10:11:25 PM
actually haystack,
the 87 and down CFI harness is prob the best bet.
with emission solenoids aside,
the 87 harness only has two injectors while the 88 has six (nothing you dont already know,,just talkin here).

the 88 harness ties three injectors back to the same computer pin while the other three injectors land on another single computer pin exactly like the CFI.


To use an 87 v6 harness on an 88 v6 car, you would just have to extend the injector harness out two more positons per bank.

Post up what harness you "CAN GET" and let us know.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 17, 2009, 12:09:16 AM
so will the 87 harness and wires work on my 88 as long as there both 3.8 v6
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 17, 2009, 08:53:15 AM
It should, I'm pretty sure there wasn't any huge changes between the two. Just hold on to your old harness to make sure they are all the same.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 17, 2009, 11:52:32 AM
Quote from: 86XR7project;262123
It should, I'm pretty sure there wasn't any huge changes between the two. Just hold on to your old harness to make sure they are all the same.


how do i get the wires through the little rubber thing on the firewall? they wont move for nothing!!
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 18, 2009, 04:53:21 PM
i got the old wires all out of the car and now all i need is a new wire harness this has got to be the hardest part ive ben to three salvage yards i pulled wires out of an 87 and turns out the wires dont match think it was a 5.0 and i need a 3.8 but i cant find the complete wire harness to the 3.8 anywhere iv called every salvage yard n the phone book and looked in all the do-it yourself yards and still came up with nothing and the ones who ship it new want 565! way past my budget if any one knows how i can get ahold to the complete wire harness PLEASEE let me know!!
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 86XR7project on March 18, 2009, 06:17:14 PM
Maybe a 302 carb swap would be easier...
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 18, 2009, 11:51:05 PM
what is that?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 18, 2009, 11:58:19 PM
Its a carburated 5.0 no ecu = less wiring
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 19, 2009, 12:06:19 AM
and how do i get that or how do i do it.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 19, 2009, 12:09:39 AM
You pretty much take out anything that had to do with the EFI system (upper/lower intake, injectors, .......) and swap a carbed upper/lower and more
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 19, 2009, 12:12:52 AM
If your on a tight budget then that aint the way to go anyway, just keep searchin you will find one. Hell, I may be able to get you the wiring off a 3.8 at the yards here since that seems to be all they have....I will check this weekend if you want. Anyone know if anything later than an '88 232 wiring will work?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 19, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
so how will that fix my wire problem??
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 19, 2009, 12:14:06 AM
thnx because that carb swap thing was confusing me lol
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 19, 2009, 12:14:17 AM
Quote from: 20thanniver-ls;262491
If your on a tight budget then that aint the way to go anyway, just keep searchin you will find one. Hell, I may be able to get you the wiring off a 3.8 at the yards here since that seems to be all they have....I will check this weekend if you want. Anyone know if anything later than an '88 232 wiring will work?


It eliminates most, if not all your wiring, I've never done it some im not totally sure. It can get expensive though.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: Haystack on March 19, 2009, 02:08:56 AM
I would put up a post in the wanted section. With all the people here that swapped out from a 3.8, I'm sure someone has a harness laying around.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: jcassity on March 20, 2009, 02:05:05 AM
your right, it probably wont fix the wirng problem. ITs just another adventure down a fruitless path but if you have the time,, a carb does do about 20hp bolt on to most any v8.

The chassis harness is boogered up as well from what you were saying, ie- smoke at seat switches ect.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: daminc on March 20, 2009, 07:43:35 AM
Quote from: Haystack;262509
I would put up a post in the wanted section. With all the people here that swapped out from a 3.8, I'm sure someone has a harness laying around.


I got a main one from a 87 3.8 cfi motor. needs a couple wires reconnected to a connector, and I believe the ring connector for the solenoid.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/parts%20to%20sell/IMG_5205.jpg)

I also might have the harness for the lights.
But isn't an 88 3.8 harness wired opposite, because the battery is on the drivers side like the V8s?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 01:29:32 PM
maybe im not too sure about what im looking for but the one i need has about six harnesses that goes under the hood, along wit hthe solinoid rind connector and it goes through the firewall and it has a bunch of harnesses and wires that connect to the ignition and everything else on the inside and the fuse box
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 02:24:23 PM
Quote from: daminc;262737
I got a main one from a 87 3.8 cfi motor. needs a couple wires reconnected to a connector, and I believe the ring connector for the solenoid.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/parts%20to%20sell/IMG_5205.jpg)

I also might have the harness for the lights.
But isn't an 88 3.8 harness wired opposite, because the battery is on the drivers side like the V8s?


or is there a way i can hook all the inside wires and fuse box and all to that wire harness
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: softtouch on March 20, 2009, 02:34:53 PM
I don't believe he is talking about the EEC wiring harness.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 02:44:21 PM
explain?? what i eec wiring harness and what is what im looking for called?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: softtouch on March 20, 2009, 03:05:29 PM
Quote from: 17needhelp;262838
explain?? what i eec wiring harness and what is what im looking for called?

The EEC (Electronic Engine Control) computer wiring harness.
The EEC is behind the passenger side kick panel. The harness goes to the fuel injectors and a lot of sensors and solinoids in the engine compartment.

The fuse panel and the ignition switch would be the power distribution harness.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 04:16:27 PM
the harness im looking for has about six connectors that go to several parts under the hood then it goes through the firewall with a rubber thing around it (i guess to keep air out of the car) and has connectors that connect into the steering column and the speedometer and goes all through the dash, radio, cig lighter and clock. it has alot of wires the connect everywhere and the fuse box is connected to it and the lil switch that controls the headlights and all.. what is that called?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: softtouch on March 20, 2009, 05:05:37 PM
I don't think the cable harnesses all have specific names. Describing where they go, like you did,is about all you can do.

The rubber firewall grommet is to keep poisonous engine bay gasses from getting into the cabin.

How bad is the old harness? Are any of the connectors damaged?
How many wires are burned up?
Maybe you can fix what you have.
Are any of the wires that went to the headlight switch burned up?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 05:18:24 PM
Quote from: softtouch;262873
I don't think the cable harnesses all have specific names. Describing where they go, like you did,is about all you can do.

The rubber firewall grommet is to keep poisonous engine bay gasses from getting into the cabin.

How bad is the old harness? Are any of the connectors damaged?
How many wires are burned up?
Maybe you can fix what you have.
Are any of the wires that went to the headlight switch burned up?


well the whole fuse box is melting on the old one i have but i got a new one but it goes to a 5.0 motor is ther any way i can clip the 5.0 connectors and trace down the wires and wire the connectors from my 3.8 harness?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: daminc on March 20, 2009, 05:19:37 PM
Sorry, didn't know what harness you needed.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 05:26:19 PM
its cool dude i dont even know what harness i need lol
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: softtouch on March 20, 2009, 05:30:35 PM
Quote from: 17needhelp;262874
well the whole fuse box is melting on the old one i have but i got a new one but it goes to a 5.0 motor is ther any way i can clip the 5.0 connectors and trace down the wires and wire the connectors from my 3.8 harness?

Is the fuse box the only thing that is burned up?
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 17needhelp on March 20, 2009, 05:42:29 PM
no couple of wires also
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: softtouch on March 20, 2009, 05:43:55 PM
Quote from: 17needhelp;262874
well the whole fuse box is melting on the old one i have but i got a new one but it goes to a 5.0 motor is ther any way i can clip the 5.0 connectors and trace down the wires and wire the connectors from my 3.8 harness?


The 3.8 and 5.0 fuse boxes are the same.
I don't know what your skill level is as for wiring and using a meter.
Title: wireing disaster
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on March 20, 2009, 07:07:13 PM
If  you could get some pics of the harnesses you are needeeing it may help man