Good attention grabbing headline - no? :mullet:
Well, actually it is - real nice having your soapy laundry water backing up into the basp00get carrying "paper" products with it :(
Soooo - it's winter now and there is snow on the ground - which isn't so bad. But then we had a wicked ice storm a few weeks ago and a 40' long, 1' diameter base limb from my maple tree broke off and fell guess where? - yep, directly over my septic tank cover :(
So, last Friday I spend the day cutting a path through the snow to the tank cover, then I procede to chainsaw the mess into a somewhat neat pile near the other tree that was completely crowned and split down to half it's former self (luckily my house wasn't hit). I then get a spade shovel and chip through the frost (fortunately only 3/4" thick) and uncover the septic tank cover. I tried to lift if with a pry-bar, but couldn't, so I figured I'd let the pros handle it. Cool, hard work but it was done!
I called the septic tank pumping company and they make an appointment - for 4 days later :( I figured I could deal with the issue and the weather showed fairly warm and no snow. She asked if it was "uncovered" and I said "yes". Now, these people say in their ads "consult with us - the professionals". Hmmm, so why didn't they suggest I recover the lid or insulate it until they got there :( Well, we had a little bit of frozen rain in between and when the tank dude came with the pry-bar, all he did was chip up the cover - doh! I kept asking him if I could help - boiling water maybe? "Nah, boiling water freezes faster than cold water." Umm, I knew what he meant, but this was a short-term deal and it's fairly warm at 25 degF at this time of the morning with sun beating on the cover. Oh, well. Then I suggested "I'd heat it with a torch, but there's a lot of methane in there now and I don't wanna blow the top off". The gears start working in his head and he gets his propane heater from the truck and works it for like 10 minutes. He prys a little more and I ask if "something chemical" might help. No answer. He comes to the front door and says "I give up". Great - I work at home and I got no toilet. Well, he's gone now so I better see if I can do something to this cover before calling another service (that might not be able to make it before it snows tonight!!!) I think - well, I'll first pour a small amount of this 50/50 antifreeze mix around the rim of the lid, let it seep in and then pour boiling water over it - the antifreeze will keep the water from refreezing as fast and the heat will melt the ice. The antifreeze seeped in rather quickly, so I added a little more (no more than a couple of pints mind you.) I figured I'd get the pry bar (mine is only 4' versus his 6' bar) and give it a shot. It broke loose in 1 minute. :punchballs:
I turned off the boiling water and called a different service. So much for "let our professional staff work for you...". The guy they sent was not too bright and even though he was a large man, he could barely breath after a few blows with the pry bar. He did suggest I "wait for spring", but then he felt bad after I told him it was backing up into my basp00get. Good help is hard to find these days :(
:punchballs:
I had a similar experience 3 yrs ago, moved here to western NY from FL( I know not to bright) anyhow middle of December same thing as you have. So I am outside snowblowing my yard which I would imagine probably made me look just as nuts to the neighbors down the road as moving from FL to here, anyway found the lid, couldnt get it to budge but by the time the dude with the pump truck got here he informed me there were 3 access doors on my tank(still dont know how he knew that) so I dug and found them and he started from there while I worked on the stuck one and I dont know if it was opening the others or not that did it but it popped right open then.
My parents' septic system backs up rather frequently. Ever since the guy behind them built his house ~15 years ago, and cut a driveway along the right-of-way at the edge of my folks' property, the leach bed doesn't work quite as well as it used to.
It never fails: septic systems usually fail during the winter. I can't tell you how many times I've helped my father clean out the system in below freezing temperatures with the winds howling. Fortunately he's paying someone to do that now, since he's getting older and isn't as mobile as he used to be. But I tell you, their backups are a LOT less frequent now. Why the change?
They're using a different brand of toilet paper. No kidding. They switched to Angel Soft...apparently it breaks down a lot better and faster than other brands. Now they're on a once- or twice-yearly schedule for pumping out the system, whereas it used to be 4 times a year or more.
I thought they were being corny when they told me this. I thought, "They're just nuts." But it's true. No shiznit.
So I don't know what caused your backup, but if it's not a frozen ground or blocked-up leach bed, you might want to try out a different brand of T.P.
Sorry to hear about your bad experiences, though. Hopefully you'll find a better company. Good luck!
Well Eric, I think you're onto something! I had recently had some "issues" (getting older sucks) so I switched over to a new brand of ultra soft toilet paper. This surely didn't help the situation. Well, that and the fact that I've only had it pumped once in the past 20 years :rollin:
The new guy showed up and we talked about everything "septic" :hick: Since I had already loostened up the cover, he just removed it and started pumping it out. It was full of all sorts of soliditousness right up to about 1' from the top (not sure how high the leech field pipes are, but it wasn't "water" on the top.)
Anyway, we chatted (I asked him question after question) and he said:
1) use single-ply toilet paper,
2) Ridex doesn't do anything (it's a minute amount of bacteria compared to what's already in there),
3) I should get it pumped more frequently (than every 10 years) :D
4) the other company should have told me to insulate the cover since they weren't going to be there for 4 days
5) he could tell I used root eater based on the smell :bowdown:
6) a garbage disposal can easily double the amount of solids in the tank over a given period of time (yes, I have one, but I try to be very careful what I put in it)
7) my girlfriend uses too much toilet paper (no, he didn't say that, I did :rollin:)
Anyway, we checked flow and the main line is flowing OK which was a huge relief. :cheers: I verified this by doing a full load of laundry - not a drop out the top of the main! Woot!
Oh, and here's an appropriate smilie for this post :shakeass:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/abandmon/shiznitters.jpg)
:rollin:
Well that's good news, glad you're flowin' again (in the proper direction LOL). Sounds like you were packed pretty solid in the tank.
I was also told that Rid-X is not really all that great. I'm sure for people that have older, smaller systems or those that are too close to the house, it might help some...but for larger systems it's not enough.
I remember when I was younger, my dad would do all the honeydipping himself...he was always abnormally cheerful whilst shoveling poo, I'll never understand that. Anyway, once it was cleaned out but before he put the lid on, he would have me walk up and down the street to find some small roadkill, dead bird, whatever, to throw in the tank so that the bacteria would start activating again.
Fortunately life has gotten much better since then.
Now I guess it's my turn...10 years? 20 years? Bah, that's nothing. Mine has NEVER been pumped and the house is 45 years old! The previous owners were old and had no kids...they would take a bath once a week, laundry was done once a week (if they were lucky), and no garbage disposal unit or dishwasher. There were never any issues to warrant pumping them out, let alone digging them up. I mean, how much poo can an old couple produce, you know?
So I move in, it's just me in the house, and I usually try to do all my "heavy offloading" at work. I do laundry once a week too. The county health board has been sending out letters to everyone in my township, reminding them to have their systems pumped and to submit that for their records.
Yeesh. I *think* I know where the lids are LOL.
This might be the year to do something with it, though. I'm having a friend (excavator) come over with a Bobcat this spring to level out my back yard (so that the dirt slopes away from the house for a change) and we are going to dig up the lids. I asked him what he thought about getting it pumped, and explained how it's just me in the house. His theory matches mine: if it ain't broke, don't mess with it. But I do want to peer into the cisterns to see if they're cracked or leaking. If they're bad enough I'll get them pumped. Otherwise we cover it all back up.
Because I don't need any of that . Yeah.
:toilet:
Geez Eric, 45 years huh? Makes me look like a regular "up on my maintenance" person - lol.
honeydipping? :rollin: This is the first time I actually looked into the tank - that root eater burned my nose - lol. What a vile chemical.
Funny, but since I have some Rid-X and the tank is empty, now is probably a good time to "seed" it, so I'll be using it with every flush for a while. My tank is only 500 gallons, so when my girls and my girlfriend come over, paper use goes way up.
Getting yours wet-vacced can't really hurt - it'll just remove some of the junk that won't breakdown at all (how did the pieces of shingle wood get in there?)
BTW, you might want to look into that "little voice" that types [SIZE="1"]in really small text[/SIZE]. :evilgrin:
this is one topic ive got a lot of research on as far as methan is concerned with brown water. Unless your willing to sacrafice the vent pipes with a one way flap check valve up at the top that pulls in while draining is going, collecting methane is impossible. Since you have vent pipes, the odds of a flameable methane collection being present is low.
Factor in the sink, bath and washing machine dumping in "anti-bacterial stuff like bleach ,, your bacteria count most often than not is very very low. I live out in the country and a couple of years ago i joined my "clear water" drain lines to irrigate directly to the leach bead bypassing the septic tank.
You may want to consider this as it is very easy to do. I joined all the clear water line (sinks, tubs, dishwasher and washing machine into a single 1 1/2'' pvc out through the foundation hole i drilled. Next i stuffed that into 4'' black solid flex tubing which i burried up to and joined into the existing leach bed. My leach bed is 150' of gravelless 10'' line which i also installed. It was back work with a maddock and a spade shovel but it is working fine.
Now i have confidence knowing my septic maintains a great amount of bacteria for breaking down brown water solids and the 1000 gal tank is working like it should.
About 3 years ago i collected some methane gas form the septic and filtered it through lime water in a tall tank with iron fittings (
Since im not willing to add check valves to the top of my vents fearing build up of presure and kaboom of some real methane, my experiment was a success.
Glad to hear you got it done though, sux about the tree limb in the per area though.
impressive idea with the antifreeze though, i bet you felt like a real honey truck man!
Yeah, I felt smarter than the big yellow-toothed ogre that didn't think to pull out the heater until I mentioned "heat" - lol. I did a little internet reading after he left and someone said that boiling water helped loosten it, so I tried the "chemical" approach first - worked like a charm! :D
I think the strong methane-like smell that I was getting in the basp00get (which had me worried about the % in the tank) was due to the "root eater" stuff I put into the main line to ensure that it wasn't clogged.
I could re-rout my clear water lines to minimize flow in the septic, but I think using better TP, minimizing disposal usage and not using clorine bleach in my wash should keep things under control. If I have it pumped every 5 years though, it's really not a huge burden.
Your orange flame experiment sounds interesting. :D
Ten years ago my septic backed up in the yard, thankfully not in the basp00get.
The pcv exit pipe from the septic tank cracked by the tee. The tee is to keep the surface scum from getting into the outlet pipe.
I have a leaching pit instead of a drain field. The scum clogged up leaching pit.
I had this outfit come in that had a "Terralifting" machine. It pile drives a hollow rod into the ground. It has an air compressor with two big tanks. They blast that air into the ground. It lifts the ground and it ripples out like waves on water. The cut off stub of the 4" pcv on the leaching pit gushed water like a fire hydrant. They went all the way around the pit about 8ft out with this thing.
It cost me $1500 but it has been working fine for 10 years since then.
I also put this "Septic Protector" filter on my washing machine 10 years ago.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetk5cc/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/SmallerPic.jpg)
I am looking into that Septic Protector (http://"http://www.septicprotector.com/Productsandservices.html") filter now. Anything I can do to save my drainfield at this point. How often do you change the filter and can it be cleaned?
Eric, you really need to go to this site (http://"http://www.septicprotector.com/Howsepticsfunction.html") and read. It talks all about the "if it ain't broke it, don't fix it" view of septic systems - I think it'll be an eye opener - I know it got me a thinkin' ;)
I bet noone has the tp use that I do one male to 5 females... The
6th is still diapers so shes good for now...
sorry to hear about your problems.
i live right across from my parents for the last 8 years.(want to keep there youngess grand-son close to them). my parents have live there for over 43 years. both houses where put up in 1965. when the parents move into theres , there was only 3 house in 1 mile circular and it was in the country.
now the lots are 250 ft by 250 ft.
in my house there two men here(my son and i).
we only pumped our's(both places) out one time and that was parents 10 yrs ago and mine was 8 yrs ago to replace the metal tanks with a concrec one's.
we never had any one freeze up because we both have our septic tanks completely under ground below the frost line. so to get to the lid we have to dig about 3 ft down.
we now use rid-x every 6 months because they down size there box. before it was 1st a year.
we use only 2 ply paper. my garbage disposal is my dog's. our drain fields is in 99percent sand from one hill to the other.(yes, we live in a valley)
Thanks for the link, very informative! Being that it's going to get cracked open this year anyway, I'll definitely have a better idea about what's going on inside. The excavator is a licensed septic inspector too. But that washer filter looks like a good idea, I'm thinking about that.
I also am considering getting an extended lid so that it will be easier to pump out in the future. The tanks are in about the worst possible location for my convenience, and the extended lid is going to be right in the way...but my other alternative is to keep burying it, then digging it up, and that's a major hassle.
After the excavator levels out the dirt directly behind the house, I'm going to put down some pavers to make a patio area, something I've really wanted since I moved in here. Well, I WANT a cement pad but with the septic cisterns right there, obviously that's a bad plan, so this is the best solution I've come up with. The tank is right about at the end of the proposed patio area. Of course. So I guess we'll just wait until we're digging and see what we can do. He may have a better solution for me, too, who knows.
My neighbors down the street got a brand new septic system installed about 2 years ago. It's the new, state-of-the-art kind with the vent caps. They were able to put that down by the street so it doesn't impede with their yard that much. It was $13K. Fortunately they had already figured for the new septic install when they bought the house 4 years ago, and had the extra money added into their mortgage.
I think it was a floating loan. Hope it didn't wipe out their savings.
Overall I like the septic system way of waste disposal. It's natural, "green" (both environmentally and for the lawn LOL), and self-sufficient--as long as it's working correctly. It's not easy to have this kind of "country" setup but it is pretty reliable.
If you do get the washer filter, you might want to get it here (http://"http://www.septicsolutions.net/store/Filtrol160.htm") - it's $35 less!
Oh, and...
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e360/Domeskull/septic.jpg)
:rollin:
Best movie character ever.
Mmmmmmhmmmmmm :hick:
You can see how much lint it has collected through the clear plastic. You take the filter out, turn it inside out and shake it off.
Thanks - I read a bit more and they suggest replacing the filter after 1-3 years (which means "5 years" - lol)
[SIZE="1"]despite all the shiznit talkin in this thread, it seems like there are some knowledgeable people in here, so im diggin it up.[/SIZE]
help, im septic stupid!
i bought this house 2years ago, and was told it has city water, and a private septic. while this concerned me a bit, the wife really liked the house, so i added septic system to my list of things to learn about being a home owner...yeah....2yrs later, i still know nothing....
i bumped the lid to what i was told is the septic access, while mowing the lawn this morning and i thought WTH may as well look inside. i lifted the lid and i have no idea WTF im lookin at here. what exactly is the stuff in this hole?
What you see is the top part of a holding tank. The drainfield is a bunch of pipes layed out like a candlebra with the main pipe feeding into it. The pump turns on when the level reaches a certain height, and shuts off when it drops below the shutoff line. In laymans terms. The white stuff is likely a grease layer. Too much grease and it can clog the drainfield....no problem here.
thanks. now, based on your labeling, shall i assume this is gonna be a problem in the near future??
Yikes. That looks to be an issue to me but I'm about as much of an expert as you are so don't take my word for it.
Have a professional look at it. Doesn't look good to me, but you also don't want anything there causing a spark. Therefor a pro should be doing it. If nothing else, he/she can look at it for their opinion. Hopefully they don't charge for a consult.
Believe me, that spider won't stand a chance against an explosion. Coworker suffered from a bacterial meningitis that nearly killed him when he was working on his septic. So I always err on the side of caution.
not all septics are like that, I do not need electricity to operate my septic.
On your situation, where is your last point of responsibility as a home owner in your community?
Having city septic may mean exactly that .... your point of responsibility stops where the turd drops.
It would stand to reason the city would control that tank because they controll all flow. I would check first before hand, you may not need to be or allow to tinker with that portion of your sewage. Your point of electrical responsibility may be on one side of the wiring splice while the pump side splice would be on the city.
The wiring to the pump would be your point of responsibility but the pump, I would say is the city as well.
I dono,, never lived in a city or a suburb. I do know my zoning though and its best to check with neighbors first. You might be surprised to find out that when the homes were built, the city originally provided all plumbing and the pump from the collection point, the home owners were responsible to provide power and discharge lines while the house was under construction.
The city has a right of way for thier plumbing from your collecton point leading to the street or where ever the outlet unions with the larger flow line. Having said that, who installed the pump, who owns the pump, and who has responsibility over the operation of the pump.
The last people i would talk to is the city,,, meaning save them for last because they are alows going to say you are responsible for everything. Been there , done that.
Nowadays, electric companies are making people responsible for the wiring drop from the pole mounted transformer to the meter base. This is illegal by way of a direct NEC violation that says residential customers must use copper wiring. There are ways to make sure you are not responsible for portions of your septic, just do some askin around. If its on the city , they have to do a trouble ticket and come out to fix whatever especially if they own the pump and the wirng on the pump side is the damaged area.
An answer would be down at the city in respect to the permit pulled to install the septic or inspection of septic.
time for a follow up i guess. put it off and put it off, last week had a load of laundry back up into the tub. thankfully, all clear water and nuthin smelly.
called a septic company to pump the tank. they showed up same afternoon i called, and figured out real quick that the only visible lid was to the tank pictured above, not my septic.
dig up the lid, and sure enough the tank is full full. pump it out and check for flow from the house....little to none. call my buddie with a snake and we snake the main and all is good, right?
wrong. septic guy said the reason the wires are burnt in the dosing tank is cause the pump is broken. $1000 for a new one.
ok, fine. call them out and have them put in a new pump. this is where things go real wrong. i was at work, and the wife was home while the guys installed the pump. theres no power out to that dosing tank. no breakers flipped, no GFI outlets tripped, nuthin. just no power. THEY INSTALLED THE PUMP ANYHOW.
so today, im under the house looking for where the electric comes from the lift pump, and cant find anything. call my buddie and he says start diggin. beginning at the tank, i dug a shallow trench and followed the wire up to about 12" from the house. the wire ends, just stops. been cut, cleanly. obviously my system hasnt been utilizing this tank, or the pump, for at least three years(bought the house about 3yrs ago)! if my septic went more than three years w/o an issue while this pump was non-operational and im supposed to pump every 2-3yrs anyhow WTF is the point of this dosing tank?
called the septic guy back and asked him why i needed his new $1000 pump, and he basically said its your problem now, im not an electrician....
On the subject of TP, don't forget that there are other products that should not go into a septic tank.
1. No feminine products, even if they say "flushable" on the package.
2. No Kleenex. It doesn't break down like TP.
3. Try to keep bleach to an absolute minimum!
4. If you need to buy a washer, get a high efficiency model, they use less water and less detergent.
5. Loose weight. If you eat less, you poop less!
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
I think I might call the owner of the company! Let him know that the next calls will be to the Better Business Bureau, whatever licensing agencies he needs to operate his business, and maybe even to a lawyer. While his diagnosis of the pump might have been correct, he should have taken not that there was no electricity getting to the ed thing!
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
The septic guy was an ass.
They should have not gone any farther if there was an obvious issue with the power to that pump. Their job was to install a pump and leave you with a working system, which they didn't.
I would say it's time escalate. If it were me, that pump would be sitting back at their shop, and I'd want my money back.
he
IS the owner, and i did let him know all those thing at the end of the call after trying to be civil for 15mins.
my next call was to the health department to get all the information i can about my septic and their regulations of the system. once i get all that info together, more calls will be made.
luckily for him, he cashed my check yesterday. otherwise the health department would have been the third call.
this is what i spent 15mins trying to convince him. his rebuttal is that he is not an electrician....
my point to him was that if he was in over his head, he should have stopped and given me an option to call an electrician BEFORE he installed the pump. he disagrees, and was informed that i will be pursuing other avenues to attain satisfaction in this situation
Hmmm...that sucks man. Definitely get in touch with the BBB. The county health board should have this guy on a list also, they should be able to tell you if he's had any shady dealings.
On a side note...
I like where this thread is going. :moon:
Of course he cashed your check. He screwed you and wanted to get the $$ into his account ASAP before you canceled the check.
Chicago Department of Sewers FTW! ;)
ok,, rewind for a minute.
he's not an electrician? did he wire the pump up?
he's not an electrician? How was he able to accuately diagnose the problem being the motor was burnt up?
he's not an electrician? Surly to god he would have bonded the pump to a 220v ckt isolating it from the house to see if infact the pump operated or not. Is the connector unhooked showing signs that he did troubleshoot to properly id the fact the pump was bad?
He's not an electrician? Why would he say he is not an electrician but yet be an authorized contractor licensed to install electrical pump?
He's not an electrician? Is there someone on his staff who worked on your project an electrician?
You have grounds now to simply take this to court, small claims. Just let the cops serve the summons. Dont even talk to him anymore. In addition to the costs of the project, i am sure you you have lost sleep, worred about your bills , using up all your emergency funds,, this has been very stressful.
the guy would really have is work cut out for him in order to dodge me.
your buddy should have siad,,,,
undo the connection at the pump
connect your meter to the black and white to check for power
if no power, flip to ohms, if open,,,
connect ohm meter to bare copper wire
connect other end of meter to chassis of your house breaker box
if open= wires do not likley go to the house
if continuity= wires are broken either the black/white or both.
keep in mind i was not home during this escapade, my wife was. my answers here in bold are the answers i received from him when i posed similar questions to him.
if i had been at the house during the installation, things would have gone differently.
the leads on my meter are not long enough to reach the house from the pump.
i wasnt busting on you,, just supporting you.
I thought you'd understand you would need a jumper wire to bond the house to the multi meter.
ok,, so if his inverter was capable of 220v at approx 30+ amps, then the pump was correctly diagnosed as inop.
all you need to do is wire it to your breaker box, its not his responsibility to power the thing up until he got you a quote to do the unexpected wiring needed.
he diagnosed the problem, replaced failed part, leaves the wiring up to you.
Knowing what I know about indianapolis first hand, you have a lot of local regulations to overcome in order to groom in that circuit to the 2009 nec standards.
I will refer you to my electrician in your area.
Gaylor Electric
Ask for Brad Benson.
Tell him scott cassity with Alpha Technologies refered you.
They have locations in Columbus and Noblesville but they have worked for me as far as lexington ky before. good guys and thier prices are inline with professional electrical outfits.
Some of his guys do a lot of side jobs and will give you a good price.
id estimate this at 40' with frost lines of approx 36'' to come in at approx 1200 dollars to cover a tech / time / materials/tools / excavation to meet local / city / zoniing / locate/ and state regulations/ permits.
remember, to call mrs utility before you dig. the whole property needs locates done before they can even start to dig.
or................
do it yourself for about 200 dollars in materials. your looking at no less than 6awg (could use 8awg) 3 cond outdoor rated wire which "could" be burred in sch 80 pvc or none at all.
you would need the specs on the new pump in order to determine if the existing wiring will support the pumps max ampacity x 1.25,,only after you decide if you want to reuse it. He should have given the wife the manual / spec sheet on the pump or at least provided the model / make so you can look it up. No biggie there especially if its a Red Jacket pump.
your best option is to resue the run you have and add environmental water tight splices to each end crimped properly and extended to reach the source / load termination points.
if you like, i will be in the columbus / bloomington area 3rd week of feb and can help you bang this out real quick (if we think the conductors are good),,just offering.
Well, I read through this whole thread yesterday...got home and the alarm on my septic pump was going off :(
I checked power to the tank last night and all is good to there so I suppose its a call to the old pumper truck to come make the mess go away. Of course the one up side is that the system isnt backing up yet, but my pump does show a short across the terminals.
I feel your pain.
Pretty awesome tank. The alarm should also be categorized as code 1 to 4. :D