Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Turbo 88 on November 14, 2008, 07:27:07 PM

Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on November 14, 2008, 07:27:07 PM
Ok. On at least one other Forum I'm on there has been a LOT of discussion about the removal of ZDDP from motor oil, and it's hazards to flat tappet cams (hydraulic or solid), but I don't recall seeing anything about that on here.

I'm thinking of ordering up a case of Amsoil Premium Protection, which is supposed to have about 1300ppm ZDDP in it. Also, they claim you can go 25,000 between changes. Then there is the ZDDP that Eastwoods sells.

You guys have any thoughts on the matter?
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Innes on November 15, 2008, 07:21:00 AM
I might be wrong on this but think you only need that for engine break-in. if no one helps you here ask your machine shop.
As for changing you oil synthetics don’t break down like dinos but they still get dirty. So change your filter and my personal opinion 25,000 is way to long. Oil still gets gas in it and know matter how many times you change the filter Nothing is better than just pulling the plug and getting all the contaminants on the bottom of the pan out.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2008, 08:26:55 AM
I use Mobil 1 and wouldn't use anything else.I also use a Mobil 1 filter.I change oil every 5000 miles.Perhaps people run their cars longer between oil changes,but I like 5000 as a comfort measure.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: irv on November 15, 2008, 09:01:22 AM
mobil 1 in everything i own incl the mowers, 4 wheeler,vtx,
snowmobile and even the weedeater.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2008, 09:06:38 AM
I figured if it's good enough and trusted enough for Vipers,Vettes,Ferraris,Porsche,etc,then it should be good enough for my old Bird.LOL.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: daminc on November 15, 2008, 09:15:37 AM
Mobil 1 in everything I own here too.
Mainly, there's not a lot of choice. 25 years ago I used kendall and bought it by the case. (in cans)
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on November 15, 2008, 11:06:08 AM
Rotella oil has a high zinc content. 

As far as Mobil1.....I run it in the Stang.  Royal Purple in the Cougar.

FWIW Mobil1 is not a true synthetic oil....
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2008, 12:41:42 PM
Mobil 1 has been a lie? I'm going with the cheapest Autozone brand I can find from now on.LOL (Just kidding !!!!).
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: jcassity on November 15, 2008, 12:56:03 PM
Quote from: Turbo 88;243074
but I don't recall seeing anything about that on here.

?


recall???  you just joined:hick:

yes, its been talked about pudy well.  I just happend to recall the thread and inserted "zddp" into the advanced search and found it again......
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=18857&highlight=zddp




I run rotella until its found that zddp is eliminated from the mix.
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Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on November 15, 2008, 01:18:28 PM
It's a Group III base stock which in Europe and puppiesan are not considered true sythetics.  At one time a few years ago; it WAS a Group IV stock and therefore what is considered a true synthetic.  The cost factor has changed that.  I'm just being technical is all.  It IS still an excellent product.

Also FWIW Mobil1 makes the best oil filters on the market right now IMHO...

Believe it or not Wikipedia actually has some accurate info on this: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil#Synthetic_Base_Stocks

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

I had a link to an excellent article that described the 5 different base stocks in a decent amount of detail, but I can't find it. 

Check this little item out:

Quote
In July 1996, Consumer Reports published the results of a two year motor oil test involving a fleet of 75 New York taxi cabs and found no noticeable advantage of synthetic oil over regular oil[3]. In their article, they noted that "Big-city cabs don't see many cold start-ups or long periods of high speed driving in extreme heat. But our test results relate to the most common type of severe service - stop-and-go city driving." According to their study, synthetic oil is "worth considering for extreme driving conditions: high ambient temperatures and high engine load, or very cold temperatures." [4] This research was criticized by some because most engine damage appears to be caused by cold starts, and their research method may not have included enough cold starts to be representative of personal vehicle use.[5]


Consumer Reports -- Skewing test procedures since 1933

The Royal Purple in my Cougar does MUCH better on a hot July day than did even the Valvoline synthetic blend I used to run.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 15, 2008, 02:33:54 PM
I ran regular stuff in my T-bird for the break in period on the new engine. Since then it's been Mobil1 and a Motorcraft filter every 3000 miles, sort of. I've only put 2500 miles on the engine in two years but I've changed it twice already ;)

Paul do you think I would get any advantage/increase in protection running Royal Purple in my 306 instead of the Mobil1 I've been running? I run 10W30 in it btw.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on November 15, 2008, 03:36:57 PM
***Sigh****

I spent an hour typing out what I believed was an organized and well put together post and then closed the window by accident.  I'm not typing it again.  I'll summarize.

Here's a good read:  http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1227331


As far as the zinc -- From what I understand Rotella still has zinc albeit in a slightly reduced amount.

Royal purple now has a break in oil with zinc.

The XPR version of RP is not for engines under warantee.  I've heard it's for short uses in racing applications only.  For a car you use on the street use the regular Royal Purple

http://www.royalpurple.com/motor-oil.html
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: turbot-bird on November 15, 2008, 03:46:39 PM
Yes, the Amsoil premium protection motor oil has a high zinc content. With a flat tappet cam you need zinc as a lubricant for the cam.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on November 15, 2008, 04:54:02 PM
One of the other Forums I'm on has had a lot of discussion and what seems like good information.

Seems the only Rotella that should be used is the Rotella T Triple protection. Amsoil "Premium Protection" seems to have both the highest levels of ZDDP AND change cycles, as upposed to the Valvoline VR-1 off road, which is supposed to be changed every 500 miles.

I said "recall" because I glanced over all the posts to see if this had been covered.

If anyone is interested, they can read this thread:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=41397
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 15, 2008, 09:03:43 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;243178
***Sigh****

I spent an hour typing out what I believed was an organized and well put together post and then closed the window by accident.  I'm not typing it again.  I'll summarize.

Here's a good read:  http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1227331


As far as the zinc -- From what I understand Rotella still has zinc albeit in a slightly reduced amount.

Royal purple now has a break in oil with zinc.

The XPR version of RP is not for engines under warantee.  I've heard it's for short uses in racing applications only.  For a car you use on the street use the regular Royal Purple

http://www.royalpurple.com/motor-oil.html


Sooooo just try regular Royal Purple and see how I like it? ;)
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: jcassity on November 15, 2008, 09:29:35 PM
hummm,,, I thought rotella of all makes was good enough.

May switch to amsoil,, dono yet.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: turbot-bird on November 16, 2008, 02:00:00 AM
I have alot of info about amsoil on my site in my sig.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2008, 02:14:00 AM
earlier tonight this topic came up at my lil gas station.  I couldnt for the life of me remember "zddp"

anyway, this thread can now be found in my diy link,,, where it wont get lost:D
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: turbot-bird on November 16, 2008, 11:10:49 PM
Thanks for the mention in the description!!
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: daboss351 on November 17, 2008, 01:05:25 AM
I run nothing but royal purple.
I run it in my cars, my motorcycle, my lawn mower(my PUSH mower and rider), ran it in my old ATV, I swear by and will use nothing but. That is unless I want to clean out the motor, and I use motorcraft synthetic blend for that.
Motorcraft, and K&N oil filters ONLY, nothing but.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on November 17, 2008, 11:35:38 AM
Quote
Motorcraft, and K&N oil filters ONLY, nothing but.


AFAIK THIS (http://"http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/reference.html") is the most comprehensive and UP TO DATE oil filter comparison right now....

The conclusions:  http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/opinions.html

Quote
Motorcraft
The one I opened in 1999 seemed to be a Purolator hybrid.  It had the Premium Plus case (anti-drainback valve, gasket, etc), but with what appeared to be a Pure One filter element.  This was a cheap way to get a Purolator Pure One.  It is sold at many locations including Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc.  I have heard from several people that Motorcraft seems to switch between Purolator and Champion Labs as the manufacturer so be observant.  The Motorcraft I took apart in 2008 appeared to be a regular Purolator Premium Plus.  Not worth the extra couple of bucks anymore in my opinion, but it probably looks snazzy under a Ford hood.



**Edit** Look at this thread on the RYCO filters from Australia (perhaps better than anything we could have gotten in 1999)

http://www.fordforums.com/f497/ryco-oil-filters-warning-124762/
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: turbot-bird on November 17, 2008, 06:05:41 PM
I like the wix filters for drain intervals less than 7500miles.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: daboss351 on November 17, 2008, 08:24:50 PM
motorcraft is cheapest filter at pepboys, and i will NEVER run a fram on my car.
Starting to order K&N's from summit to run from now on.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Chris1987LX on November 19, 2008, 07:32:01 AM
I use Rotella in the race car we run with EMRA. My engine builder told me to use it, so I continue to do so. We broke it in with this oil. After a season of racing, I like the results and will continue to do so for the 09 season.

Brad Penn is the oil of choice for some SVRA crew chiefs I know. My engine builder also goes with Brad Penn, but for the time being I still use the Rotella only because it is easy to get. One team owner I know sent the results to a lab and it was found that Brad Penn came up the best, so they switched over and use it in everything.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on December 01, 2008, 10:20:29 AM
Just bought some of this: 

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/hotrod/index.html

(http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/images/hotrod_17.jpg)
We'll see what happens ;)
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on December 01, 2008, 10:38:38 AM
Any idea what the ZDDP PPM content is on that?

I ordered up a case of Amsoil Premium Protection 20w50 and a couple of their filters. Should be arriving today. It has over 1300ppm of ZDDP in it.

I did some simple math based on the Amsoil change interval of 15,000 miles Vs conventional oil changes at 3000 with the addition of a ZDDP additive.

Basically you're looking at $70/change with the Amsoil (figuring about $9.40/qt plus $17.95/filter) while the conventional rout will cost upwards of $140/15,000 miles (figuring $2.00/qt plus $7.00/filter plus $10.00/additives = $27/change x 5 changes)

So its going in the TC and my 360 Duster to see what happens.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on December 01, 2008, 11:08:56 AM
Quote
Any idea what the ZDDP PPM content is on that?


The only one I could find the content on was their break in oil......2500 PPM.  I would assume it's less than that.  This is a good read:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3100/performance_oils_and_additives_got_zinc.aspx

Quote
$17.95/filter

Any info on those Filters?
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on December 01, 2008, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;245594

Any info on those Filters?


Ask, and ye shall receive:D

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on December 01, 2008, 11:46:34 AM
Cool, thanks!  Looks like the HR oil has 1600 PPM....I'm trying to confirm

**EDIT**

Actaully has 1400 PPM Zinc AND Phosphorus.  Great numbers for both.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on December 01, 2008, 11:49:06 AM
That's quite a bit. How much is it per quart?
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on December 01, 2008, 11:50:34 AM
got it
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: jcassity on December 02, 2008, 12:00:44 AM
I look at it like this,,
Who here will allow thier car to go 5000 miles and not change the oil?
I sure as hell wont. , but im also the guy who seems to do a transmission filter about every year to.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on December 02, 2008, 12:10:16 AM
I've been driving and changing my own oil for 37 years and have never gone more than about 3000 on a change. But I'm gonna give this a try
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: rancheronut on December 02, 2008, 12:48:04 AM
Quote from: daminc;243138
Mobil 1 in everything I own here too.
Mainly, there's not a lot of choice. 25 years ago I used kendall and bought it by the case. (in cans)


i love using kendall in my race /strip cars but people around here stop stocking it here 20+years ago. so this is how i been doing  oil
my high-way rigs  they get mobil-1 and fram filters
 every 6,000 miles or 1st a year what ever comes first.

 my intown rigs they get  valvoline and fram filters
  every 3,000 miles or 1st a year what ever comes first.

my junkers  or rigs i just save from a field or barn rigs
 get napa oil(made by valvoline for napa)  and from fram filter for the first time to see if there keepers or parting out. if there keepers ,then they move up one notch on oil change list on next oil change.

i have been following this rule  from the time mobil-1 came out. before that, than everything got valvoline and fram filters. i have yet to have any of my engine's (new/used/rebuilt) fail from lack of oil or oil related. that almost 30 years!!!!!
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: turbot-bird on December 03, 2008, 06:16:04 AM
Quote from: jcassity;245745
I look at it like this,,
Who here will allow thier car to go 5000 miles and not change the oil?
I sure as hell wont. , but im also the guy who seems to do a transmission filter about every year to.


I do, So far the longest I have gone is 12,000miles. Right now I am testing the Amsoil SSO which is rated for 35,000Miles or 25,000 severe service, I will be testing the oil about every 5,000 to check on it.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: 88 thunderbird on February 03, 2009, 12:12:26 PM
sry this thread might be dead but someone said they use kendall oil, there sold out and the orginal owners started another company and the oil is called Brad Penn oil. We use it in the shop in newly built engines etc. its a partial synthetic 30w break in oil, then use 10w30
 its a PA oil so it might be hard to find
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Turbo 88 on February 03, 2009, 01:46:01 PM
It's only "dead" until the next post lol
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: V8Demon on February 03, 2009, 02:18:49 PM
Reading the Kendall website shows they actually have enough confidence to post detailed info concerning their products.

A full listing:
http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/brands-products/kendall_brand/engine_oils.aspx

Their GT-1 Synthetic:

http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/documents/kendall/automotive_engine_oils/Ken%20GT1%20Full%20Synthetic%20MO%20TDS%20Web.pdf

Interesting.  I'd like to compare their synthetic 5w20 to the Mobil1 variant...

*Edit*
Some Mobil 1 5w20 info:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.asp
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: 88 thunderbird on February 03, 2009, 03:17:39 PM
we had a problem with oil in older engines(camshaft installs) and the tech line referred us to the brad penn for the high zinc content
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: daddybair7 on February 07, 2009, 01:26:10 AM
i use castrol synthic /high mileage and fram tough guard filters on all my cars but then again i only put an adverage of 50,000 miles per year on my work car (construction) my wife put anywhere from 30 to 35,000 a year just cause she likes to drive the roads .i change oil bout every 3 weeks on my work car . 6 weeks on my wifes so go ahead and rip me for my choice of oil and filters but they havent let me down yet :shakeass:
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Ductape91 on February 09, 2009, 10:14:15 AM
theres some cheapie brand oil they sell at walmart(accel or something like that) that still contains a decent amount of zddp.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: DVP on February 09, 2009, 12:02:26 PM
Bahh!!!

Oil...... Its over-rated anyways, who needs its
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: 88 thunderbird on February 09, 2009, 01:00:16 PM
lol
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: ysgeye on January 29, 2015, 03:18:30 PM
I had a 1995 Honda Civic, 4 cyl. that I used AMSOIL in.  Changed oil every 25k miles, oil filter every 12.5k.  The car had 307k miles on it when I sold it and still going strong.  Of course, I had to change oil in the car every 2 or 3 months since I racked up the miles pretty quickly.  Another car I had that I used AMSOIL in was a 1999 Olds Aurora.  It had almost 300k miles on it when my wife sold it.  Two other vehicles that I used it on were 1995 Ford f-150 with straight 6, and 1996 Ford F-150 with 5.0 engines.  Changed oil every 25k miles and filters at 12.5k.  Both pickups are still in service today (not by me, but I sold both of them to a friend of mine who uses them in his business).  One has over 400k miles on it and the other one about 387k miles last I checked.
If your engine doesn't have an oil leak, then it is a very good oil and economical, too.  If you have a leak, it could get expensive.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: ysgeye on January 29, 2015, 03:30:15 PM
Me.  Using AMSOIL.  Change oil at least once a year if I don't do 25K miles on the engine.  But I do change the oil filter at 12.5K miles if I go that far by the time a year has gone by.
Title: Oil??????????????????
Post by: Haystack on January 29, 2015, 09:53:25 PM
I buy my oil wherever is cheaper while i was the oil light flicker, the oil filter came on the car, can't be bothered to see what it is, and so far I've been 25k without changing anything, but probably added a million quarts.

Trying to blow it up, so don't judge me too harshly. Had the engine on the stand for 10 years now. The trans so far has always quit before the engine. My last car i went about 80k miles with two filters.