Technical => Audio & Other Aftermarket Electronics => Topic started by: CustomT on November 04, 2008, 12:03:46 PM
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 04, 2008, 12:03:46 PM
Ok, here's what I have now.......In my TC I have the two dash speakers and two door speakers hooked up to my Power Acoustik amp along with two subs. The two rear deck speakers are currently hooked directly to the stereo and are acting like a fill in the back seat area. Most of the sound is currently coming out of the front four speakers.
Now what I want to do is change out the rear deck speakers (as they sound like they are blown) and add a 2 Channel 520 watt amp to power the subs. Using the 4 Channel 600 watt amp to power the six speakers. How would I do this? I am thinking all I have to do is add a distribution block to power both amps. Disconnect the subs from the 4 channel amp and plug them into the 2 channel amp and then plug the rear deck speakers into the 4 channel amp where the subs where plugged into. Also, run a wire from the remote connection on the 4 channel amp to the remote connection on the 2 channel amp.
Would this be correct?
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: shame302 on November 04, 2008, 01:26:08 PM
should work. what awg. is your power 12v power cable?
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 04, 2008, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: shame302;241613
should work. what awg. is your power 12v power cable?
4 AWG if I'm not mistaken.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: shame302 on November 04, 2008, 02:18:35 PM
should be fine then.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: LumpyCheeseman on November 04, 2008, 05:43:39 PM
the power line is adequate, however, the way you want to wire the speakers themselves is a little off. if you wire 4 4ohm speakers on 2 4ohm outputs, it either raises the load to 2ohm, or the speakers dont receive adequate wattage. what i would do is continue to have the dash and door speakers run off the amp, and let the back speakers continue to run off of the headunit (after speaker replacement of course). the whole point of the rear is supposed to be fill. after all, when we go to a concert or watch a movie the rear speakers of a surround sound only really fill in what might be behind us, which usually isnt a lot.
if you are still using the stock headunit, just use the fader to go towards teh rear a little to bring the fill up to a comfortable level. if you are using an aftermarket, same thing.
i do hope that helps.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: ipsd on November 04, 2008, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;241649
the power line is adequate, however
Quote
Yes that should work but you should really find the total current draw that is running from that power wire and the length of the wire to find out if it is enough to handle the load. I don't remember the formula at this min.
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;241649
the way you want to wire the speakers themselves is a little off. if you wire 4 4ohm speakers on 2 4ohm outputs, it either raises the load to 2ohm, or the speakers dont receive adequate wattage
Quote
Yes but no! It depends on if you wire those speakers in parallel or series. If you wire them in parallel positive to positive and negative to negative. When they are both 4ohm speakers Yes you will get a 2ohm load. But if you wire them in series where the positive from the amp goes to the first speaker and the neg from the 1st speaker runs a wire to the positive on the second speaker then then negative on the second speaker runs to the negative on the amp you get an 8ohm load with two 4ohm speakers. Then depending on the amp and what it can handle you could even run all four 4ohm subs in a 1ohm load all in parallel hook up and bridge the amp in to one channel and get the most out of your amp.
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;241649
what i would do is continue to have the dash and door speakers run off the amp, and let the back speakers continue to run off of the headunit (after speaker replacement of course). the whole point of the rear is supposed to be fill. after all, when we go to a concert or watch a movie the rear speakers of a surround sound only really fill in what might be behind us, which usually isnt a lot.
if you are still using the stock headunit, just use the fader to go towards teh rear a little to bring the fill up to a comfortable level. if you are using an aftermarket, same thing.
i do hope that helps.
That sounds about right. The rear is more for fill but it all depends on what he wants his setup to sound like to him. Yes I love to hop in a car with Awesome imaging that can make you wonder why did that sound like it came from out on the hood or about 1mile back. You could even dial the gain on the amp down and fine tune with the fader.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 05, 2008, 01:30:00 AM
sure,, go ahead with it if your alternator is capable of dealing with the dirty current draws above the rated rms to the tune of about 100 additional amps.
On my stock 20th, with everything on and running, my clamp on shows 45amps. Its your call but 1120 additional watts @11vdc is purdy sketchy to me.
remember , as voltage goes down, current goes up but resistance remains the same. The resistance part is what we normally call our cars wiring harness and normally thats a constant pre-egineered awg size. Just keep that in mind when it comes to corroded/aged fuse links. Theres no reason why you cant get the same and cleaner DB out of a 500-600w unit if things are wired right. Run your one to all desired speakers by means of your rca headunit to amp. leave the rear deck as "fill" like suggested although i dont know why.
Next try wire all the speakers in parallel directly off the amp +/- to speaker +/-.
Next, rewire in series... +amp to pos speaker1, neg speaker 1 to +speaker 2, -speaker 2 to -amp.
gezz, there are so many options you have here as well. See ,you can also bridge the amp like for instance the two channel amp. If you install a jumper wire from channel 1 neg to channel 2 pos, you now have a vacant channel 1+ and vacant channel 2 -. This will allow you to run channel 1+ to sub1+ sub1+ to sub2- sub2- to channel 2 - 0r,,,,,,,,in series which will yield the highest amount of current drop across both subs at once or....more noise and possible better db.
there are many options but a safe start is to wire parallel first and listen. Parallel will decrease the total resistive load the amp sees but the benefit is that the current drop across each sub is less. Its a misnomer to say putting speakers in parallel vs series effects the speakers resistance. Actually is the amp that """""SEE'S""""" the total resistance.
to say anything changes the resistance of something means little green men got in there and rewond the magnetic coil with a different guage wire or the turns ratio of wire inside the speaker cone itself. Its impossible to change the resistance without taking something apart and rewiring or reworking it.
In all reality,its actually the amp that sees the transaction taking place, the speakers just sit there and take the hit.
when you bridge the amp,, thats when we start pulling some current on the alternator as well,,ie- get the most out of your amp.
Another thing to engineer into this is the wire size mentioned. I highly suggest you supply your chassis ground from your amp to the metal of the car with as short as possible cable. this way you are only running one + cable back to a point where it will split off to each amp.
Your antited amperage should be based around a low voltage number of 11vdc. so... 1120watts total / 11vdc=@100A
the wire size formula is 11.1 constant x loop footage (power cable distance of + and neg cable) x ampacity /allowable voltage drop of .25vdc=circular mil cable size or 11.1x20x100/.25=88,800circular mils of copper required which equals 1/0 cable.
You can decide if your willing to allow for a larger voltage drop or not but if you do, it will decrease your wire size which might sound good. You can also derate your ampacity to 80% which further decreases your wire size.
To get you into a 4awg, you must allow for .53vdc across your wire at the below 100% ampacity rating. keep in mind at 11vdc, .53vdc represents 1/20th of your battery capacity not to mention the long term effects on the battery recharge time as well as alternator demand inwhich the amperage draw probably represents 50-80% of what its capable of producing with a 3g.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 05, 2008, 08:56:08 AM
Whew!!!!! After all that now I am really confused :crazy: My head is spinning. , now what? Ok, so what I'm hearing is, I really don't need to add another amp, leave the back speakers as fill and adjust the fader so I can hear the back speakers a bit better.
Now another thing I was thinking was to reset the way I have my speakers set up. Currently I have the Dash Speakers set as front speakers and the door speakers set as back speakers (that's the way the install shop set it up, not me) and the rear deck speakers are pluged into the head unit.
Now I'm thinking to set the Dash Speakers as fill(hook them to the Head Unit), Door Speakers as Front and of course Rear Deck Speakers as Rear. This should give me the desired sound I am looking for I think.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: LumpyCheeseman on November 05, 2008, 06:14:21 PM
what you wanna do, is run the front channel rca's to the amp. either split them, via rca splitters, or most amps have an out side for each in side. so either split or go in one in and loop the out to the next in. this way all 4 front speakers get the proper front channel. continue to leave the rear speakers as rear. that will get you proper imaging.
the subs should be the only things on your rear rca outputs. hope that clears it up
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 05, 2008, 08:41:31 PM
lets do this... first define your power source.
after that, we can do you up some drawings of how to cable everything out.
step 1 what size alternator and battery do you have? is your charge harness stock?
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: ipsd on November 05, 2008, 11:03:08 PM
Quote from: jcassity;241753
1. gezz, there are so many options you have here as well. See ,you can also bridge the amp like for instance the two channel amp. If you install a jumper wire from channel 1 neg to channel 2 pos, you now have a vacant channel 1+ and vacant channel 2 -. This will allow you to run channel 1+ to sub1+ sub1+ to sub2- sub2- to channel 2 -
2.0r,,,,,,,,in series which will yield the highest amount of current drop across both subs at once or....more noise and possible better db.
3. there are many options but a safe start is to wire parallel first and listen. Parallel will decrease the total resistive load the amp sees but the benefit is that the current drop across each sub is less. Its a misnomer to say putting speakers in parallel vs series effects the speakers resistance. Actually is the amp that """""SEE'S""""" the total resistance.
4.to say anything changes the resistance of something means little green men got in there and rewond the magnetic coil with a different guage wire or the turns ratio of wire inside the speaker cone itself. Its impossible to change the resistance without taking something apart and rewiring or reworking it.
5.In all reality,its actually the amp that sees the transaction taking place, the speakers just sit there and take the hit.
6.when you bridge the amp,, thats when we start pulling some current on the alternator as well,,ie- get the most out of your amp.
What? Are you sure about all of that?
1. Yes this works for some amps I would only bridge it the way the manufacture tells you to. WATTS don't just add up either.
2. I'm thinking that you confused Series and parallel. In a series you increase the resistive load and in parallel you decrease the resistive load. Less resistance = more power = more volume. as the Ohm load on the amp decreases it increases in power and when you increase the ohm load on the amp the power decreases. example 8ohm=50 watts 4ohm=100watts 2ohm=200watts 1ohm=400watts.
3.First off if were at install stage why are we still playing with witch way to wire it. That part should be planed out already. The only sub wiring that might need a change would be the phase. And now days you can do that with the flip of a switch. I'm not so sure about your ideas on less current drop per sub in a parallel setup. Then amp running a low ohm load will net more power than the same amp running a high ohm load. And with a lower Ohm load you use more current. Why else would my Amp tell me to flip the to HIGH CURRENT mode with a ohm load of 2ohms or less. And yes the it is the amp that sees the load!
4.This I think you don't fully understand the way a speaker works. You want to change the resistance of a speaker move the cone. Don't believe me hook your meter to a speaker set the meter to ohm's and push the cone watch the meter move. The resistance changes depending what part and how much of the coil is inside the magnetic field that is created to make the cone move. Once you hook up your meter you will see that the speaker isn't the same exact ohms as printed on it. Close but some are lower and some are higher. As of changing the resistance without taking it apart I think you understand you can. So as the speaker moves the load changes constantly.
5. The amp gets signal in and takes that and increases the current/output of that signal and sends it to the speakers witch react and move back and forth turning those electrical signals into sounds waves.
6.Still that would have to depend on the amp and on the load into witch you configured your setup.
Then when it comes to power and ground wires get a big as you can can't go overboard. Find a good ground I like the rear seat belt bolt area wire brushed off to bare steel . Then bolt the ground down and cover in spray paint. Also Bigger power and ground will help keep the amp cooler it will have to work less to get the power it needs oh so much.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 06, 2008, 12:26:37 PM
Ok, after much debate and searching I've decided not to put the second amp in and just leave the rear deck speakers hooked to the head unit. My problem with the way it all sounds now is that the rear speakers sound like . I guess that's what happens when you install cheap Kenwood speakers that couldn't handle the wattage. I'm pretty sure the kenwoods are blown so I am going to replace them with Memphis Audio three way 350 wat speakers.
Installing another amp would not have changed the way the system sounds by much, expecially for the rear speakers, so why waste the money? Thanks for all the help everybody gave me.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: ipsd on November 06, 2008, 02:22:13 PM
Just what kind of sounds are those rear deck speakers making? Back when I was 17 a friend had a set of Kenwood 6x9 in those behind the seat truck boxes for a truck in the back of his monza! With a Coustic amp they pounded.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 06, 2008, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: ipsd;241966
Just what kind of sounds are those rear deck speakers making? Back when I was 17 a friend had a set of Kenwood 6x9 in those behind the seat truck boxes for a truck in the back of his monza! With a Coustic amp they pounded.
They sound like they are blown from time to time, the rest of the time they just don't put out what they should. Going to replace them with a set of Memphis Audio 6x8 three way speakers running a total of 350 watts.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 09, 2008, 03:49:20 AM
good to see your throttled back a little. your power source was not clairified but two amps may have brought on power issues.
ipsd watts are always and foreever additive.
Car without audio amps example=your electrical system in stock form with everything running,, a clamp on meter would show about 40amps.
40A demand x 12v battery = 480w (ahh, but keeping in mind as voltage drops,,,,,,,,,,current goes up until thermal runaway)
Car with audo amps 1120w of audio amps + 480w of normal vehicle demand =1600w
1600w / 12v = 133A required (3g required)
stock alt is approx 65A if your lucky..............12v x 65A = 780w capable
As for your saying the original wire size "sounds" right, not sure what data you have to support that but this is exactly how houses burn down, breakers trip , fuses blow and cars burn to the ground.
as time marches on, your nominial volage may drop (ie-sluggish starting symtoms or dim headlamp) low nominial voltage example of 10vdc
@10vdc the car / audio still will demand 1600w 1600w / 10vdc = 160A required.
Watts can not be changed,, only your ablity to turn down the volume in the instance of an audio system. This will change the amperage demand which is the main issue im pointing out.
without a good alt, be careful of what amp your putting up against 20+ year old fuse links at the alternator output.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 09, 2008, 04:11:51 AM
Quote from: ipsd;241922
4.This I think you don't fully understand the way a speaker works. You want to change the resistance of a speaker move the cone. Don't believe me hook your meter to a speaker set the meter to ohm's and push the cone watch the meter move. The resistance changes depending what part and how much of the coil is inside the magnetic field that is created to make the cone move. Once you hook up your meter you will see that the speaker isn't the same exact ohms as printed on it. Close but some are lower and some are higher. As of changing the resistance without taking it apart I think you understand you can. So as the speaker moves the load changes constantly. .
This is another cool thing you brought up,, but trust me, alot of this stuff your talkin about is purdy simple.
what you are seeing by pushing on the cone is the inductor passing through the magnetic field produced by the stationary magnet. when you pass the "coil" , ie- wire- through a magnetic field, you have current flow. Hows that for not knowing how a speaker works?
since your meter is set on ohms, your seeing something of a faux reading because your actually seeing a voltage drop vary with the movement of the inductor due to your meter being the 9v power source. This is gonna happen anyway with the speakers operating or in a static state like you meaured.
speakers in parallel will have the same voltage drop across each speaker but the current is spit across each branch.
speakers in series will have proportional voltage drops less than source but have max current flow.
ask around,, speakers wired in series produce the biggiest bang for your buck, but also use more current (or better said- tends to blow speakers more quickly). Ie- voltage goes down, current goes up;)
Why would this be?????????? because you cant change watts,, its designed into the device., and is the very reason you pay more money for a higher wattage system,, better yet,,,,,,, the very best RMS system compared to PEAK.
I think we are both saying the same thing just differntly. Its kind like do electrons flow from neg to pos or is it the "hole" that flows from pos to neg. Either way, i do disagree with your series and parallel comparrison. Please let me know if i am wrong or not, I was always under the impression speakers wired in series created the best sound if your pocket was deep enough to keep from blowing them.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 09, 2008, 08:09:52 AM
Quote
good to see your throttled back a little. your power source was not clairified but two amps may have brought on power issues.
You are right, I did not clarify my power source. About a year ago I Installed a 150 amp altenator. The stereo equipment I am using is as follows:
HEAD UNIT Pioneer AVH-P4000DVD In-Dash Double-DIN 6" Touchscreen Monitor DVD/MP3/CD Receiver
AMP PowerAcoustik Class A/B Series #A6004HP - 600 Watt 4-Channel Amp Max Power: 600 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms: 4 X 70 Watts RMS @ 2 Ohms: 4 X 85 Watts RMS Bridged: 2 X 170 Watts Full Mosfet Power Supply Variable High Pass: 150Hz - 1.5Khz Variable Low Pass: 40Hz - 120Hz Hi/Low Level Input With Floating Ground 18 dB Bass Boost @ 40 Hz Three Way Protection Tri-Mode Capable 2 Ohm Stable System Dsitress Indicator LIne Output 4 Gauge Power / Ground Connectors Gold Plated RCA Connectors
DASH SPEAKERS KFC-1082ie 3-Way Speaker System Max Power: 140 Watts 3-way 4" speakers Fiber-textured mica-injected polypropylene woofer Urethane surround 1" PEI balanced dome tweeter 1/2" ceramic flat tweeter 4-ohm impedance Frequency response: 45-22,000 Hz Sensitivity: 91 dB Depth: 1-13/16"
DOOR SPEAKERS Memphis 15-PRC63 - Memphis 6.5" 3 Way Triaxial Speakers 6.5" Triaxial Speakers 50W RMS Power Handling 100W Peak Power Handling Polypropylene cone Poly-aluminum dome tweeter Kapton voice coil Polyurethane Surround
REAR DECK SPEAKERS Memphis I5-PR693 RMS/Peak 60/120 watts Sensitivity 90 dB Magnet Size 14 oz. Mounting Depth 3"
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 09, 2008, 01:44:38 PM
we can start with this diagram and let the guys who do this everyday tune it better.
as you can see, there really isnt any reason to leave the deck speakers on the head unit but its your call.
of the two options below, there are a few more depending on how "series" / "bridged" you want to go.
I would highly suggest you go to radio shack or wherever and get a passive crossover for the subs. apparently your mids and highs are 3way so you are ok on those two frequencys. If anything, get passive crossovers for them to filter out the bass, leave the bass to the subs and save money on blowing mids / lows later on.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 09, 2008, 02:12:59 PM
Example of quality
RMS means the heat effect on a sine wave, you pay for this part:hick: What it means is the closer the lable says the RMS is to the "peak" 600w, the better the amp. You can just simply multiply the face value of the amp x 70.7% (.707) and come up with the "TRUE RMS". What all this means is how much py noise is present at full volume. The less py noise, the more you paid for the amp. Better said is at what point in your volume does the py noise start such as at what percentage of volume do you have max clean noise before the py noise starts.
lets look at your amp
advertised watts is 600w lets use the bridged 2 channel option which says its rated for 170w. classroom math for rms is 600w x .707 rms= 424.2w 424.2w / 2channels = 212w Humm, that does not match what your stamp says.... so we can take the two numbers and come up with the py noise point in volume. 170w/212w = 80% So,,, at 80% volume, you will have py noise from there on up.
From my eyeballing of amps,, it appears that the so called RMS numbers (ROOM MEANS SQUARED) is much much closer to what we call "AVERAGE POWER" or 63.7% of the total stamped value of wattage - In the same example of a bridged amp 2 channel =170w 600w amp x .637= 382w 382w / 2 channels = 191.1w per channel. py noise range ... 170w/191w= 89% So, at 89% volume, you will have py noise from there on up.
Back when i was into systems pretty big, i would walk around the sterio shops and use this information to guage the quality of the amp. Wouldnt you know it,, the higher the RMS number , the more costly the amp was.
I also concluded very rarely do amps show thier RMS value. The math is there right on the unit, your just missing one part ,, the truth about the amps true rms value. I have concluded most amps are "less than average",,ie- average power or .637 x peak watts.
If you happen across an amp in which the math shows the rating to be at average or better, your gonna have yourself a good amp., just dont blow it up.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: ipsd on November 09, 2008, 08:19:39 PM
As for Watts not just adding up. Once again I'm sorry I was so unclear but you cant just take the power from one amp and add that to another amp and get x amount of power.
As for the power wire Custom T stated he has 4ga power wire. Not sure about you but yes you can exceed the need and want bigger. But in most car audio systems 4ga is more than enough. Now if you were going with a sound off type setup hell yes you need bigger wire. I also guess you missed the post were I told him BIGGER WIRE IS ALWAYS BETTER. Oh and if you are dumb enough to run any sorta power wire without a fuse to keep said car fire from happening I guess you deserve it.
As for witch way does the power flow come on buddy everyone knows its from the positive to the negative. NOT The power flows out the negative side of the battery and back into the battery via the positive. If the power came out the positive you would be charging your alternator.
As for the speaker readings with the ohm meter. Yes we only get those readings because of the 9vlt battery in the unit. But the part I think you are missing is that we are measuring the resistance of the coil. To measure resistance we have to have some thing to compare it to . I was only pointing out that the load changes as the speaker moves. So the load does change even though we didn't tear it apart and re work/re wire the speaker. Also if you take the same meter and use it to measure the load of speakers wired in series and parallel you will see that we changed the load also.
AS for the parallel setup you are right each speaker see the same amount of power all divided equally. The amp also uses a lot more current because in this configuration it doubles the power output every time you cut the load in half. Then in a series setup you have each speaker suck up all the power it can and then pass the left overs to the next in line. Speakers just like light bulbs the first one will get full power then the next will get 75%,then 50%,25% or so to speak.( the first light will be bright and the 2nd will be dimmer and so on for each bulb in the line.The amp also uses a lot less current because each time you stack on another speaker you double the load and the amp power cuts in half. That is why you blow so many speakers in your series is because the #1 reason for a speaker to blow is due to being underpowered. As for asking around I think you need to ask around. I know that car audio gear especially high end sub woofer amps and the like are designed to make the most power in a low impedance load like what you get when you wire speakers in parallel.
As for RMS and peak watts. Your right the lower quality amps show you that Peak power number to give you those warm and fuzzies. But a real high quality amp will tell you RMS not peak power on the amp. take for instance Back in my day a Rockford Fosgate punch 45 amp would make at minimum of 45watts. They would even give you the test sheet that told you what it spec out to on the bench test. The last amp I bought didn't even give a peak spec it only laid out the RMS rating. It also can handle down to a 1/2ohm load.
Custom T sorry to jack your thread! Sounds like you are getting and eye full of us. Stick with what you got. Sounds like you are on the right track for what you want. I will add that if you really want more low end play with the location and direction of your BOX. The sound waves bounce back and forth in the truck and can cancel each other out. All in all if that doesn't work you might just try sealing the front side of box to the interior cabin and sealing the back wave inside the truck so you won't get that cancelation. Kinda like free air setup but with the box attached to the separator you installed.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 09, 2008, 08:46:26 PM
Quote from: ipsd;242357
As for Watts not just adding up. Once again I'm sorry I was so unclear but you cant just take the power from one amp and add that to another amp and get x amount of power.
[COLOR="Blue"]LOL, i never said the bridge two amps together,,, I was saying the two amps demand in watts on the alternator. [/COLOR]
As for witch way does the power flow come on buddy everyone knows its from the positive to the negative. NOT The power flows out the negative side of the battery and back into the battery via the positive. If the power came out the positive you would be charging your alternator.
[COLOR="blue"]Ahh,, but you see electron current flow does always and forever flow Negative to Positive. I know must think im an idiot but its true. The gap in between two electron repelling eachother shifts itself from pos to neg. THis is called Hole flow. Most people just say pos to neg because its easier to get your head around.[/COLOR]
Custom T sorry to jack your thread! Sounds like you are getting and eye full of us.
[COLOR="blue"]Why, now hes got so much valuable information to print from you (a guy who did it for a living) and a guy like me who had a little to offer as well. I think its about time we get an audio thread that gets people a good start before they burn up the car. The purchase of a system is one thing,, the existing infrustructure of the car is a totally different topic that left not discussed could lead to bad wiring issues. We see it everyday, cram and stuff that system in only to hear complaints later of electrical problem.
[/COLOR]
.......
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: ipsd on November 09, 2008, 09:33:19 PM
Why, now hes got so much valuable information to print from you (a guy who did it for a living) and a guy like me who had a little to offer as well. I think its about time we get an audio thread that gets people a good start before they burn up the car. The purchase of a system is one thing,, the existing infrustructure of the car is a totally different topic that left not discussed could lead to bad wiring issues. We see it everyday, cram and stuff that system in only to hear complaints later of electrical problem.
That sounds like one smart Idear you have there. I will add that if you want we can but please don't use that color text again its like trying to pick needles out of a haystack with my Midnight setting I run in this forum.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: CustomT on November 10, 2008, 07:23:13 AM
Well, glad to see you two come together. As stated earlier I decided to keep the rear deck connected to the head unit, just going to change the speakers out so all my speakers match. I should be good all around. With all the information you guys gave my head is still swimming from it. :D Anyway, thanks for all the input and yes, you need to do a sticky on installing an audio system with the diagrams (thanks for those they are very useful).
No problem on hijacking the thread, a lot came out of it and hopefully it will be useful for others to come.
Peace, Custom T
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: DiamondSCattleCo on November 29, 2008, 10:55:55 AM
In addition to JCassidy's diagram, you'll notice you have an unused channel on your amp. You can either use this to drive your deck speakers (you'll need more power to move those planned 350 watt speakers) or else you can bridge two of the channels together and drive your subs.
Rod
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: jcassity on November 29, 2008, 08:48:52 PM
he said he wants to leave the deck speakers on the head unit,, dono why but thats what he wanted. I guess his head unit has a pre amp or sumthin,,
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: BIGmeat15071 on December 11, 2008, 03:10:16 AM
If I'm not mistaken, from those diagrams you would be powering those subs with less than 50 watts each, which is less than the recommended RMS. I'd run the subs off of the other amp.
I uploaded a diagram on how I would setup the system. If I made a mistake on the diagram, please let me know.
Also, what type of box do you plan on installing the subs?
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: LumpyCheeseman on December 11, 2008, 08:04:14 AM
first mistake, he has a 4 and a 6.5 on each side, not 4's on one and 6.5s on the other.
second to run a 4 and a 6.5 together, you want them in series, not in parallel. parallel drops the ohm rating down.
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Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: BIGmeat15071 on December 11, 2008, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247206
first mistake, he has a 4 and a 6.5 on each side, not 4's on one and 6.5s on the other.
My mistake. The way I did it, the front stage would be mono.
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247206
second to run a 4 and a 6.5 together, you want them in series, not in parallel. parallel drops the ohm rating down.
Why do you suppose the speakers should be wired series? Due to their physical sizes being different?
Both of the speakers are 4 ohm, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be wired in parallel to give the channel a 2 ohm load. The amp is 2 ohm stable, so I see no problem there. If you wired them in series, the channel would have an 8 ohm load and you would be wasting power.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: LumpyCheeseman on December 13, 2008, 01:02:38 AM
in series (positive on amp to positive on both speakers) the speakers should still only pull 4ohms, not drop to 8.
the other reason i wouldnt wire in parrallel (yeah i cant spell, i just woke up and am going back to sleep lol) is because of the wattage ratings on each speaker. the 3.5's will typically have a lower rating than the 6.5's, so even on a "lower wattage" amp, the parallel would bump to 2ohm and increase the wattage by a good bit. potentially to the point of blowing the speaker.
hopefully that clears up my standpoint lol.
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Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: BIGmeat15071 on December 13, 2008, 07:31:01 PM
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247392
in series (positive on amp to positive on both speakers) the speakers should still only pull 4ohms, not drop to 8.
If the speakers are wired in series, the final ohm load on the amp's channel will be 8 ohms. Wired in parallel, the final ohm load will be 2 ohms. There is no way that if they are wired to the same channel, they will pull a 4 ohm load.
Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247392
the other reason i wouldnt wire in parrallel (yeah i cant spell, i just woke up and am going back to sleep lol) is because of the wattage ratings on each speaker. the 3.5's will typically have a lower rating than the 6.5's, so even on a "lower wattage" amp, the parallel would bump to 2ohm and increase the wattage by a good bit. potentially to the point of blowing the speaker.
hopefully that clears up my standpoint lol.
-537
I see what you are saying here. With a peak power rating of 140, I assume these speakers can take at least 40 watts rms. With the gains on the amp set reasonably, I would not imagine them blowing. My larger concern was with underpowering the speakers. The door speakers are set to handle 50 watts rms. Given the amp isn't a high end amp, what are the chances of it doing rated power? If it does perform rated power, that speaker is receiving 42.5 watts. Wire those speakers in series and the power received is somewhere less than 35 watts. I'd assume around 27 watts or so, but that is also assuming the amp puts out rated power.
To be completely honest, I would say junk or sell the 4" speakers and power the 6.5s and the 6x9s all with the 4 channel amp. The diagram I made above was just for it you wanted to keep all of the speakers. It was not what I would do in your situation. Removing the dash speakers was one of the best changes I made to my system. Not only would it make your system sound clearer, it would also free up power that could be used for the door speakers.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: LumpyCheeseman on December 14, 2008, 12:58:26 AM
i dont know about clearer....i know of a towncar with boston acoustics 3.5 or 4 in the dash, rockford fosgate 6.5 in the doors, and stock jbl premium 6x9's in the back, with the 3.5/4 and the 6.5 on the same channel, and its clear as a bell with good highs all around.
just did an install on it, new cd player, sub with amp, and 4channel to power all the interior speakers. if anyone is interested, i built the box myself and have pics.
Title: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs
Post by: BIGmeat15071 on December 15, 2008, 08:42:56 PM
I think it would be clearer, especially in this situation. First off, having sound produced from 2 speakers in the front of the car, rather than 4, will help keep the front sound stage simple. Also, consider how much power will be put to these speakers. As I mentioned earlier, wiring the front speakers up in series (as you suggested) will underpower the speakers in the doors, creating distortion in the speakers. Not only is distortion shiznitty to listen to, it also could harm the speakers.
With the 4" speakers out of the picture, the 6.5s could be adequately powered by running each off and individual channel on the amp, giving them 70 watts rms (if the amp does what it is rated, which I doubt it does). Personally, I'd rather hear quality sound come from 2 directions rather than distorted sound coming from 4 directions.
I'm not saying that the towncar you did doesn't sound well, but you may have better equipment than he is using as well. With the equipment he is using, I feel my suggestion above would be his best choice.