General => Lounge => Topic started by: Bird351 on March 20, 2005, 11:31:08 PM
Title: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: Bird351 on March 20, 2005, 11:31:08 PM
And to think, I lived and worked in Pinellas Park for a short time. Good thing I'm not there now. Hell, I'm ashamed to be in the same state as this guy.
I don't know what spin the corporate media has put on this Schiavo story, just that SOME mention of it is now international.. and that someone found a way to turn it political. Well I wonder if any of them bothered to report stuff like this:
Quote
AFFIDAVIT
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
1. My name is Carla Sauer Iyer. I am over the age of eighteen and make this statement of my own personal knowledge.
2. I am a registered nurse in the State of Florida, having been licensed continuously in Florida from 1997 to the present. Prior to that I was a Licensed Practical Nurse for about four years.
3. I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Florida from April of 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there.
4. It was clear to me at Palm Gardens that all decisions regarding Terri Schiavo were made by Michael Schiavo, with no allowance made for any discussion, debate or normal professional judgment. My initial training there consisted solely of the instruction "Do what Michael Schiavo tells you or you will be terminated." This struck me as extremely odd.
5. I was very disturbed by the decision making protocol, as no allowance whatsoever was made for professional responsibility. The atmosphere throughout the facility was dominated by Mr. Schiavo's intimidation. Everyone there, with the exception of several people who seemed to be close to Michael, was intimidated by him. Michael Schiavo always had an overbearing attitude, yelling numerous times such things as "This is my order and you're going to follow it." He is very large and uses menacing body language, such as standing too close to you, getting right in your face and practically shouting.
6. To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens while I was there. I became concerned because nothing was being done for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy, no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri's hand to keep her fingers from curling together, and Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy.
7. Terri's medical condition was systematically distorted and misrepresented. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as "mommy," and "help me." "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like "pay." She didn't say the "n" sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper.
8. When I came into her room and said "Hi, Terri", she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying "Haaaiiiii" sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a "hi", which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humorous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri's, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri's rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri's responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that.
9. Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death. Michael would say "When is she going to die?," "Has she died yet?" and "When is that bitch gonna die?" These statements were common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include "Can't you do anything to accelerate her death - won't she ever die?" When she wouldn't die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. He made numerous statements such as "Make sure the parents aren't contacted." I recorded Michael's statements word for word in Terri's chart, but these entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders were that the family wasn't to be contacted, in fact, there was a large sign in the front of her chart that said under no cirspoogestances was her family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them, anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.
10. Any time Terri would be sick, like with a UTI or fluid buildup in her lungs, colds, pneumonia, Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die. He would call me, as I was the nurse supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking if she was dead yet. He would blurt out "I'm going to be rich!," and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.
11. When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would would be trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I'd check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I would put dextrose in Terri's mouth to counteract it. This happened about five times on my shift as I recall. Normally Terri's blood sugar levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube feeding. It is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is very fast acting.
12. The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the reasons I've said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named Carolyn Adams, known as "Andy" Adams who was a particular concern. An unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was completely unconcerned, making statements such as "They are old - let them die." I couldn't believe her attitude or the fact that it didn't seem to attract any attention. She made many comments about Terri being a waste of money, that she should die. She
said it was costing Michael a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time, too.) Both Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was convinced it was because of my "rocking the boat."
13. Ms. Adams was one of the people who did not seem to be intimidated by Michael. In fact, they seemed to be very close, and Adams would do whatever Michael told her. Michael sometimes called Adams at night and spoke at length. I was not able to hear the content of these phone calls, but I knew it was him talking to her because she would tell me afterward and relay orders from him.
14. While at Palm Gardens, I became fearful for my personal safety. This was due to Michael's constant intimidation, including his menacing body language, vocal tone and mannerisms.
15. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn't stand by and let Terri die without the truth being known.
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of September, 2003, by CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who produced her Florida driver's license as identification, and who did / did not take an oath.
(Non-text portions of this message have been removed)
I hope all this comes out, and this guy is tried and sent to prison. Having connections in the Florida prison system, and knowing the kind of people they are, I expect his welcome would be a steaming warm one.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: ban-one on March 21, 2005, 10:30:02 AM
I wonder how much of that is legit though. The fact that the government is getting involved alone is stupid, not to mention the special session they had over the weekend to pass legislation to save her. Don't worry about the deficit or rising gas prices, just concentrate on meddling in private, family affairs.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on March 21, 2005, 11:14:27 AM
Yes quite sickening I dont feel that this is constitutional the government should worry about what they are already F*cking up instead of this poor ladys life. Let her husband pull the plug i would want that if i in the same state.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: jkirchman on March 21, 2005, 11:16:25 AM
Quote from: ban-one
Don't worry about the deficit or rising gas prices, just concentrate on meddling in private, family affairs.
Indeed. Government involvement in this matter is not warranted and irresponsible in my opinion.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 11:16:28 AM
Let her husband pull the plug when she doesn't want to die? That's called murder.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on March 21, 2005, 11:21:53 AM
Come now she cant even feed herself. How can you tell she dosent want to leave this plane of existance. You cant even call her life existance.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 11:31:16 AM
Quote
A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would only allow a feeding tube.
Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:
"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.
"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."
Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."
Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday: "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."
Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"
When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.
"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch gonna die?'
Are you paying attention?
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: cougarman on March 21, 2005, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: Bird351
Are you paying attention?
Don't beleive everything you read, some people just like to cause trouble.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: ban-one on March 21, 2005, 11:36:45 AM
Regardless of any personal feelings we may all have about this issue, the bottom line is it is a family matter and should be handled as such.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: jkirchman on March 21, 2005, 11:38:00 AM
Quote
Don't beleive everything you read, some people just like to cause trouble.
That may be true, but when you have several different people giving very similar testimonies over the course of several years it kind of gains some credibility. I really hope the truth comes out in this.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 11:38:31 AM
Wow, what a bunch of sheeple in here today. You'd let this guy murder his wife in cold blood just because the case has gone to the government. I'm really disappointed in you people.. more like ashamed of you.
Quote
THEY NEVER SPOKE OF THIS! Yet now Michael claims that Terri's wish was to die of starvation and dehydration, and the infamous Judge George Greer rubber stamps it. Why?
A case for Criminal Investigation of Michael Schiavo:
1) Nurses' testimony: Heidi Law, Carla Sauer-Iyer, Carolyn Johnson have been ignored and dismissed without hearing; each testified that Michael was abusive to Terri and may have attempted to kill her by insulin injection and attempts to induce pneumonia by turning the thermostat in her room to 64 degrees.
2) Michael Baden, top forensic pathologist in country and interviewed on Fox News National Television broadcast October 25, 2003 on Terri's bone scan and injuries states that:
a) Terri's injuries are not consistent with a heart attack; no cardiac evidence to support it
b) Extremely rare for potassium imbalance on woman her age and in her good health
c) Injuries are consistent with severe trauma possibly caused by a beating
d) The injuries in medical records warrant an immediate investigation
3) Dr. William Hammesfahr, Nobel prize nominee and neurologist testified that Terri's neck injuries are consistent with only one type of injury: that of strangulation.
4) Terri's doctor, Dr. Gambone resigned; he had previously testified Terri would die within a few days of starvation/dehydration. Terri has an obvious will to live.
5) Michael has enlisted the services of a new doctor, Stanton Tripodis, who has 5 malpractice suits against him. Clearly, Michael is attempting to provide sub-standard care for his wife.
Case no. 97007946C1 filed 11-25-97 Case no. 94003739C1 filed 6-27-94 Case no. 95000873C1 filed 2-14-95 Case no. 96001434C1 filed 3-6-96 Case no. 98002289C1 filed 4-7-98
6) Michael is committing adultery by living with another woman who has already born one child with another on the way, thereby creating an obvious conflict of interest as guardian.
7) Michael has committed both perjury (2 counts) and insurance fraud by promising to provide care and therapy for his wife in exchange for the court award of 1.2 million dollars in 1993. No care has ever been provided to Terri.
8) Michael Schiavo has also prevented Terri from undergoing a barium swallow test, a procedure necessary to ascertain the consistency of foods able to be taken by mouth.
9) Co-conspirator George J. Felos combined and conspired with Michael Schiavo to arrange for Terri's "free" stay at Hospice Woodside as part of an "exit protocol" designed to advance Felos' self-perceived messianic mission of "helping" incapacitated people to die by categorizing them as "terminal," warehousing them, and depriving them of therapy and rehabilitation services. (Attorney Felos is Director of Florida Right to Die and has testified that he can ascertain a person's desire to die by "looking into their eyes and letting their spirit speak directly to him")
10) Investigate Insurance company established in Jan 2001 at the home of Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend/fiancee Jody Centonze. (Jerger and Centonze Insurnace Agency Inc.) Michael is listed on the Board of Directors for the corporation. Note: Insurance is deliberately misspelled in the State of Florida Corporate filing, possibly to avoid investigation.
11) Michael continues to deny Terri the right to receive Holy Communion as part of her Catholic and civil rights.
But I guess you'd rather hear about whatever "shiny object" they're forcing down your throats today, like steroid hearings or Janet's nipple or whatever.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 11:42:14 AM
Here's one from the former sheriff of the county just to the south of me:
Quote
An Open Letter To 'We the People of the United States of America' By John J McDougall Retired Florida Sheriff of Lee County Florida 3-19-5
Imagine for a moment that you are a Circuit Court Judge. A terrified woman comes before your Court pleading for her life. She testifies, under oath, that her violent and demented husband raped her, set her clothes on fire and threatens to kill her. She needs your help and petitions your court for an Injunction for Protection. What would you do? Well, this is what a real Circuit Court Judge of the Sixth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida; by the name of Judge George W. Greer decided.
He actually had this exact case come before his bench seven years ago, when Helene Ball McGee, from Dunedin Florida pleaded with him to grant her an Injunction for Protection. Helene was in absolute fear for her life. Judge George W. Greer, however, refused to help her, because (according to him) she had not shown him ìenough proofî that her husband was physically violent yet. Two weeks later her deranged husband, Bobby Lane McGee, stabbed her to death. Perhaps if Bobby lane McGee, had raped Judge Greer first, he would have had a much better insight into the physically violent nature of her husband.
Now this same gender-biased Judge, with utter disdain for women, is the same Judge in charge of the Terri Schindler Schiavo Case. True to form, this Judge continues to ignore the Constitutional rights of Due Process for Terri Schindler Schiavo, in much the same way he did to Helene Ball McGee, who was violently murdered seven years ago this month. Terri who is physically disabled, has trouble swallowing food on her own and because of this Judge Greer has seen fit to order her feeding tube removed. Her Court appointed 'Guardian' husband who has since abandoned her for another woman, (with whom he has fathered two children) wants her dead and has asked Judge Greer's permission to use hundreds of thousands of dollars from her Medical Trust Fund Money to pay his blood-sucking lawyers to find a way to make this happen.
It worked. Judge George W. Greer has now ignored her parents plea for help and has ordered Terri's execution by starvation and dehydration to begin on March 18, 2005. This cruel, torturous, and horrifying death of yet another woman before his Court will take up to 10 days of horrific suffering to cause her to die. But Judge Greer is not without mercy, no sir; he will allow her parents permission to stay and watch their daughter starve to death.
What is wrong with this picture? Is this the same United States of America, whose US Supreme Court is inscribed with the words, 'Equal Justice under law.' While Terri starves and cries out for justice; our distinguished Supreme Court Justices will be too busy to hear, because they will be deciding how best to abolish those embarrassing 'Ten Commandments' of which, the Fifth Commandment is, 'Thou shall not kill.'
God help us. Every person of conscience in this Country should be ready to travel to the Sixth Judicial Circuit Court House, in Pinellas County Florida, and scream at the top of their lungs, that this is Murder! This is Murder! This is Murder!
John J McDougall, retired Florida Sheriff of Lee County Florida.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Chuck W on March 21, 2005, 12:04:47 PM
If it was me..I'd want the plug pulled...
But it's not and it's none of my business....
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 12:12:01 PM
I wouldn't want to live like that, either.. but this woman wants to live.
Quote
Last Visit Narrative
by Attorney Barbara Weller
When Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube was removed at 1:45 p.m. on March 18, 2005, I was one of the most surprised people on the planet. I had been visiting Terri throughout the morning with her family and her priest. As part of the legal team working throughout the previous days and nights to save Terri from a horrific fate, I was very hopeful. Although the state judicial system had obviously failed Terri by not protecting her life, I knew other forces were still at work. I fully expected the federal courts would step in to reverse this injustice, just as they might for a prisoner unjustly set for execution—although by much more humane means than Terri would be executed. Barring that, I was certain that sometime around noon, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services would come to the Woodside Hospice facility in Pinellas Park and take Terri into protective custody. Or that federal marshals would arrive from Washington D.C, where the Congress was working furiously to try to save Terri, and would stand guard at her door to prevent any medical personnel from entering her room to remove the tube that was providing her nutrition and hydration.
Finally, I was sure if nothing else was working, that at 12:59,just before the hour scheduled for Terri’s gruesome execution to begin, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush would at least issue a 60-day reprieve for the legislative bodies to complete the work they were attempting to do to save Terri’s life and to make sure that no other vulnerable adults could be sentenced to starve to death in America. I had done the legal research weeks before and was fully convinced that Gov. Bush had the power, under our co-equal branches of government, to issue a reprieve in the face of a judicial death sentence intended to lead to the starvation and dehydration of an innocent woman when scores of doctors and neurologists were saying she could be helped.
All morning long, as I was in the room with Terri and her family, we were telling her that help was on the way. Terri was in good spirits that morning. The mood in her room was jovial, particularly around noontime, as we knew Congressional attorneys were on the scene and many were working hard to save Terri’s life. For most of that time, I was visiting and talking with Terri along with Terri’s sister Suzanne Vitadamo, Suzanne’s husband, and Terri’s aunt, who was visiting from New York to help provide support for the family. A female Pinellas Park police office was stationed at the door outside Terri’s room.
Terri was sitting up in her lounge chair, dressed and looking alert and well. Her feeding tube had been plugged in around 11 a.m. and we all felt good that she was still being fed. Suzanne and I were talking, joking, and laughing with Terri, telling her she was going to go to Washington D.C. to testify before Congress, which meant that finally Terri’s husband Michael would be required to fix her wheelchair. After that Suzanne could take Terri to the mall shopping and could wheel her outdoors every day to feel the wind and sunshine on her face, something she has not been able to do for more than five years.
At one point, I noticed Terri’s window blinds were pulled down. I went to the window to raise them so Terri could look at the beautiful garden outside her window and see the sun after several days of rain. As sunlight came into the room, Terri’s eyes widened and she was obviously very pleased. At another point, Suzanne and I told Terri she needed to suck in all the food she could because she might not be getting anything for a few days. During that time, Mary Schindler, Terri’s mother, joined us for a bit, and we noticed there were bubbles in Terri’s feeding tube. We joked that we didn’t want her to begin burping, and called the nurses to fix the feeding tube, which they did. Terri’s mother did not come back into the room. This was a very difficult day for Bob and Mary Schindler. I suspect they were less hopeful all along than I was, having lived through Terri’s last two feeding tube removals.
Suzanne and I continued to talk and joke with Terri for probably an hour or more. At one point Suzanne called Terri the bionic woman and I heard Terri laugh out loud heartily for the first time since I have been visiting with her. She laughed so hard that for the first time I noticed the dimples in her cheeks.
The most dramatic event of this visit happened at one point when I was sitting on Terri’s bed next to Suzanne. Terri was sitting in her lounge chair and her aunt was standing at the foot of the chair. I stood up and learned over Terri. I took her arms in both of my hands. I said to her, “Terri if you could only say ‘I want to live’ this whole thing could be over today.” I begged her to try very hard to say, “I want to live.” To my enormous shock and surprise, Terri’s eyes opened wide, she looked me square in the face, and with a look of great concentration, she said, “Ahhhhhhh.” Then, seeming to summon up all the strength she had, she virtually screamed, “Waaaaaaaa.” She yelled so loudly that Michael Vitadamo, Suzanne’s husband, and the female police officer who were then standing together outside Terri’s door, clearly heard her. At that point, Terri had a look of anguish on her face that I had never seen before and she seemed to be struggling hard, but was unable to complete the sentence. She became very frustrated and began to cry. I was horrified that I was obviously causing Terri so much anguish. Suzanne and I began to stroke Terri’s face and hair to comfort her. I told Terri I was very sorry. It had not been my intention to upset her so much. Suzanne and I assured Terri that her efforts were much appreciated and that she did not need to try to say anything more. I promised Terri I would tell the world that she had tried to say, ”I want to live.”
Suzanne and I continued to visit and talk with Terri, along with other family members who came and went in the room, until about 2:00 p.m. when we were all told to leave after Judge Greer denied yet another motion for stay and ordered the removal of the feeding tube to proceed. As we left the room, the female police officer outside the door was valiantly attempting to keep from crying.
Just as Terri’s husband Michael has told the world he must keep an alleged promise to kill Terri, a promise remembered a million dollars and nearly a decade after the fact; I must keep my promise to Terri immediately. Time is running out for her. I went out to the banks of cameras outside the hospice facility and told the story immediately. Now I must also tell the story in writing for the world to hear. It may be the last effective thing I can do to try to keep Terri alive so she can get the testing, therapy, and rehabilitative help she so desperately needs before it is too late.
About four in the afternoon, several hours after the feeding tube was removed, I returned to Terri’s room. By that time she was alone except for a male police officer now standing inside the door. When I entered the room and began to speak to her, Terri started to cry and tried to speak to me immediately. It was one of the most helpless feelings I have ever had. Terri was looking very melancholy at that point and I had the sense she was very upset that we had told her things were going to get better, but instead, they were obviously getting worse. I had previously had the same feeling when my own daughter was a baby who was hospitalized and was crying and looking to me to rescue her from her hospital crib, something I could not do. While I was in the room with Terri for the next half hour or so, several other friends came to visit and I did a few press interviews sitting right next to Terri. I again raised her window shade, which had again been pulled down, so Terri could at least see the garden and the sunshine from her lounge chair. I also turned the radio on in her room before I left so that when she was alone, she would at least have some music for comfort.
Just before I left the room, I leaned over Terri and spoke right into her ear. I told her I was very sorry I had not been able to stop the feeding tube from being taken out and I was very sorry I had to leave her alone. But I reminded her that Jesus would stay right by her side even when no one else was there with her. When I mentioned Jesus’ Name, Terri again laughed out loud. She became very agitated and began loudly trying to speak to me again. As Terri continued to laugh and try to speak, I quietly prayed in her ear, kissed her, placed her in Jesus’ care, and left the room.
Terri is alone now. As I write this last visit narrative, it is five in the morning of March 19. Terri has been without food and water for nearly 17 hours. I’m sure she is beginning at least become thirsty, if not hungry. And I am left to wonder how many other people care.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: ban-one on March 21, 2005, 12:14:47 PM
With the Supreme Court deciding not to hear the case, does that make them as guilty as the "activist judges" in this case? Different views from different parts of the country I guess. Those of us in the midwest for the most part don't want the federal government meddling in personal affairs, whereas in other parts of the country, they can't seem to function without intervention. My wife and I had an arguement over this case Friday night. She asked if I'd pull the plug on her. She didn't care for the response. Thank goodness my new couches are comfortable!
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 12:29:46 PM
Well now you have a bit more info than what the corporate media spoon-feeds you.. so you can do some reading, educate yourself a bit on the case, and see why this isn't a simple case of pulling the plug on someone who is a vegetable. I don't know about you, but where I come from this is called murder.. or at least attempted murder at this point. It's a crime. Do midwesterners expect the government not to get involved in crimes? Has it really been THAT long since I was born in Chicago, that I'm missing some crucial part of midwestern mentality? Do you all sit around waiting for people to rob and rape and kill you and then shun any police (they're also a part of the government, last I checked) involvement in the crimes?
Y'see, my mother had a similar reaction to this case.. wanting them to pull the plug on this woman based only on what TV and radio had told her about the case. I told her I was ashamed of her, too.. especially so considering she's a nurse, and I expect a little more compassion from her. (which is *usually* there) But then I started to show her some of the stuff that was being said outside the control of mainstream media, and now she's starting to catch things that are wrong with the case.. starting to see the light on this guy trying to murder his wife so he can move on to the next woman.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 21, 2005, 12:53:26 PM
Try this (http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html) site for relatively unbiased information about the case. Most stuff I've seen elsewhere is emotionally charged propaganda material (see above posts).
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 12:59:18 PM
Hmmm.. the word of those around her vs. some know-it-all on a blog. Nope, sorry, blogger loses.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 21, 2005, 01:10:17 PM
Quote from: Bird351
Hmmm.. the word of those around her vs. some know-it-all on a blog. Nope, sorry, blogger loses.
Given that you replied in less than 7 minutes leads me to believe you did no more than glance at the site. It is the most comprehensive on the 'net. The blogger is not an advocate; he is presenting the facts and timelines leading up to today.
Some of those around her also believe Michael Schiavo beat her into her coma and the heart attack diagnosis was unfounded. Do you believe this also?
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 01:11:50 PM
I wouldn't put it past him.
See, there's something I think the rest of you don't get about people like this guy. They're capable of a lot worse than you can fathom someone doing.
My own father was a rather abusive drunk.. took his time in Vietnam a little too harshly all his life. (even his friends who also went would seem to agree with this) I remember the times when he'd do something like nail the doors to the house shut and force us to go sleep in a motel.. or get pissed over a trivial thing and pick me up and bodyslam me onto my bed. When I got older, I even had to kick him out of the house at gunpoint in fear of my life. He proceeded to park his truck on the abandoned lot next door and I stayed up all that night, alone in the house watching TV in an otherwise darkened house while holding the .22 rifle I had at the time. I often recall the story my mother told me about how my dad flew into a drunken rage while she was pregnant with me and proceeded to kick her in the stomach. Had my father's cousin not intervened and removed her from the house, I very well might not have been born. Even his last words to me the night he died were spoken in a drunken rage, calling me an asshole and then hanging up.. all because he had shamed me with his drunken antics in public and I left.
Given all that, do I think my father was evil? No, I think his demons controlled him way too much.. and he often did far more than I think he intended to do. (I don't justify anything he's done.. it was wrong) I've also seen the better side of him, like the night he had to bury my cat because it got hit by a truck, and was crying (something he hardly ever did) as he had to describe how the cat's eyes were hanging out of its head and he had to bury it like that.. and then went on a personal crusade to all the local police departments involved because the truck was one of the many that used to drive by here way too fast on its way out to a local party spot in the woods, and he intended to put an end to it. I've had almost ten years now after his death to think about and make my peace with the whole thing. But when I read some of the things, like the sworn affidavit about this Schiavo guy's conduct, I see all that sort of behavior and then some. This guy DOES strike me as evil. "When is that bitch going to die?" is not something I'd have ever heard from my old man, no matter how drunk and pissed off he was.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: oldraven on March 21, 2005, 02:20:49 PM
Personally, if this is actually the way this is all going down, I hope someone nails that punk to the wall. I mean, it's his wife. He should be looking for every treatment under the sun to rehabilitate her. At least hope for her survival, not death. It only takes a handful of people like that to give humanity a bad name.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 03:04:57 PM
OK, maybe I was wrong.. maybe I haven't completely come to terms with the man, now that I dredged all that up. Typing all that out put me in a horribly foul mood. Sorry.
I read a lot of that stuff I posted today last night, and I was pretty disgusted with this Schiavo guy. Had a hard time getting to sleep, (laid there like 3 hours) then when I did I had a dream that it was present day and my father was alive and my mother was the one who had just died.. and I was absolutely hysterical.. but I also remember feeling in the back of my head, why was I stuck with him now? I remember in the dream sort of passing the time idly discussing car plans and like that, but having that dread of being stuck with him and not having my mother around to help deal with it.
Yeah, I have issues. But hey, what can ya do except try to learn from their mistakes? Sure, I drink.. hell, sometimes I drink more than he did.. but I'm not an abusive drunk. I'd rather get drunk and spend a couple hours discussing Pink Floyd with a friend or pass out in front of a speaker playing Jimmy Buffett than get smashed and hit someone.
Well, I figured sooner or later someone would claim that I side the way I do on this case because of my own issues.. so hey, why not just admit it up front? Yeah, my own experiences color how I view it. If this guy is deliberately trying to kill this woman, I hope someone buries him under the nearest jail. Doesn't matter if I would or wouldn't want to "live" the way she's "living".
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 21, 2005, 05:23:13 PM
On a completely unrelated note, I got my tripminder installed today :D
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 21, 2005, 05:26:39 PM
Did you get a nice long look at that harness you said you'd rather run new wires for? :p
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: turbo83coupe on March 21, 2005, 07:05:28 PM
i was listenign to the radio while I was reading this thread, and they had a soudn clip of her when they removed the feading tube... :disappoin it was very sad. If this is true that he is tryign to kill her, and it is very possible, i hope he gets it real bad! :flame: but... we never could end up finding out i guess... everyting happens for a reason though... I jsut hope it turns out for the best....
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: chrome302jr on March 22, 2005, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: 20th anny 5.o
Come now she cant even feed herself. How can you tell she dosent want to leave this plane of existance. You cant even call her life existance.
A child cannot feed his/herself...should we stop feeding them for that reason. It really boils down to the value of life, and in this case it is struck right down the middle between liberals and conservatives. Liberals are of course chanting for the govt to stay out, but this is expected because this coincides with their stance on abortion. She is just a vegetable, it is just a fetus, let us kill who/what we want. Versus conservative high value of life, this "vegetable" is a human life, this "fetus tissue" is a baby. I cannot believe that her husband is acting the way he is, "just stay out," I mean , many ppl would give anything to have govt intervention in saving a childs/spouses life. Either he is extremely dedicated to his liberalistic beliefs(to the point of insanity) or he has some shady alterior motives. You decide...
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 22, 2005, 11:38:07 PM
Quote from: chrome302jr
A child cannot feed his/herself...should we stop feeding them for that reason. That buttstuffogy is bunk. A child will soon learn to feed themseves. Terri Schiavo will never be able to feed herself.
Quote
I/t really boils down to the value of life, and in this case it is struck right down the middle between liberals and conservatives. Liberals are of course chanting for the govt to stay out, but this is expected because this coincides with their stance on abortion. She is just a vegetable, it is just a fetus, let us kill who/what we want. Versus conservative high value of life, this "vegetable" is a human life, this "fetus tissue" is a baby. I cannot believe that her husband is acting the way he is, "just stay out," I mean , many ppl would give anything to have govt intervention in saving a childs/spouses life.
Either he is extremely dedicated to his liberalistic beliefs(to the point of insanity) or he has some shady alterior motives. You decide...
I wouldn't call the right to die a "liberalistic" belief in and of itself. This is not assisted suicide. It is letting nature take its course when there is no reason to go on. In this case, the court ruled that Terri is in a persiantant vegetative state without any hope of recovery. Why keep her alive? What purpose does it serve? If you've looked at the case and have decided that she isn't in a PVS w/o hope of recovery, than we'll just agree to disagree. If I didn't think it was hopeless, I wouldn't want her feeding tube to be disconnected either.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 22, 2005, 11:40:54 PM
Quote from: chrome302jr
A child cannot feed his/herself...should we stop feeding them for that reason.
That buttstuffogy is bunk. A child will soon learn to feed themseves. Terri Schiavo will never be able to feed herself.
Quote from: chrome302jr
Either he is extremely dedicated to his liberalistic beliefs(to the point of insanity) or he has some shady alterior motives. You decide...
I wouldn't call the right to die a "liberalistic" belief in and of itself. This is not assisted suicide. It is letting nature take its course when there is no reason to go on. In this case, the court ruled that Terri is in a persiantant vegetative state without any hope of recovery. Why keep her alive? What purpose does it serve? If you've looked at the case and have decided that she isn't in a PVS w/o hope of recovery, than we'll just agree to disagree. If I didn't think it was hopeless, I wouldn't want her feeding tube to be disconnected either.
What "shady" motives do you think he has? He stands to collect ~$50,000 dollars, which will be donated to charity, when Terri dies.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 22, 2005, 11:49:03 PM
Wow, it must be great to still be able to act like people are incapable of lying and malice and what not. I lost that notion way back when I was a kid. It's good to see you still think the best of people, and don't see any possible way the husband could be evil. Not so thrilled that you take the mainstream media explanation hook line and sinker, but hey.. no one's perfect.
Oh yeah.. the assertion that she'll *never* be able to feed herself is also bunk. One of the people campaigning for her is a person who was in her condition and recovered and went on to lead a full and meaningful life.. and I'm guessing that person is able to feed themselves in the process.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 23, 2005, 12:03:57 AM
I was in that state thru most of high school, and look at me now...
Wait a minute... which side is that a point for?
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: ban-one on March 23, 2005, 12:12:57 AM
metric system......
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 23, 2005, 12:17:56 AM
Quote from: Bird351
Not so thrilled that you take the mainstream media explanation hook line and sinker
The mainstream media also shows video of her supposedly responding to commands. In reality, it was a few seconds of video taken from four (4) hours of tape.
Quote from: Bird351
Oh yeah.. the assertion that she'll *never* be able to feed herself is also bunk. One of the people campaigning for her is a person who was in her condition and recovered and went on to lead a full and meaningful life.. and I'm guessing that person is able to feed themselves in the process.
Here is some actual tech (http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder0300.pdf). I'll take a specialist with a MD over a nursing assistant. If you take the time to read, you'll see that nobody is denying she might be able to swallow some food here and there, but she (in the doctor's opinion) cannot take in enough to keep her from needing a feeding tube.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 23, 2005, 12:18:24 AM
*sings* Blame Canada!
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 23, 2005, 05:41:35 PM
Hey! We've hit a new low! I'm so proud of my state. :toilet:
Quote
Gabriel Keys (foreground) is arrested by police officers for trespassing in Pinellas Park, Florida, March 23, 2005. The young protester attempted to take a glass of water into the Woodside Hospice for the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo. A federal judge rejected a request from the parents of Schiavo to order her feeding tube reinserted, dealing a blow to attempts by the U.S. Congress and the White House to prolong her life. REUTERS/Carlos Barria
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 23, 2005, 05:57:10 PM
Man, Bird... Florida has been on a ROLL since that election four years ago!
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on March 23, 2005, 07:10:40 PM
The courts and government need to stay the F*ck outta what isent thier business i call this unlawful intervention unconstituntial. If you need to extend congress over the weekend to shove through a bullshiznit bill like this i call that having your balls in some hot water. The only case a court should have the say in a life or death situation is for a murder who happens to be on death row.
And thank you Jeremy B for explaining what some cant understand.
(Some words to think of for you who think she can still recover PROGRESSIVE VEGETIVE STATE and a nice little number 15 years)
Chrome302jr A child cannot feed his/herself...should we stop feeding them for that reason.
Should we shove a feeding tube down its throat?
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Cougar8775 on March 23, 2005, 08:11:02 PM
ok ive kept outta this thread cuz i know what my opinoin is and idk if everyone will accept ti but who cares. but her parents needs to give up because there is no way she will come out of it and be her normal self again. its just not gonna happen. wake up and smell the shiznit. so GIVE UP! but no there dragging it out causing her pain and suffering. and thats is just wrong. i know if i was like that and no way for me to get better pull the plug. don't let me suffer. and im sure thats the same for everyone here. and i know there is no way for her to come back normal because the hert attack she had put her in this state and she has ireversabul brain damage. so there is no way to come out of it. now if some how her parents see this GIVE UP QUIT THE SUFFERING OF YOUR DAUGHTER!!!
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: baylensman on March 26, 2005, 05:03:43 PM
i read the "affadavit" on this site and the local papers, i live about three miles from the hospice. When this "Nurse" was called in to testify or by local radio shows or news papaer reporters she recanted a lot of the story and admitted that alot of her claims were second hand.
the big arguement is wheter the husband is truley carrying out his wifes wishes or not. Micheal had turned down serious cash offers to walk away. He has been told that he could get an immediate no fault divorce, there is no money left in the trust fund.
I beleive he is trying to carry out his wifes request not to be kept alive artificailly. Having gone through simialr cirspoogestance with an older relative i know that it is tuff for all parties involved
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 26, 2005, 07:51:07 PM
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the nurse has been "convinced" to contradict her sworn statement in a public setting.. and yes, I do tend to think the worst of people like this guy.. they're more than capable of it.
I see him mainly as an abuser who will be that much happier when one possible witness against him is removed from the picture.
Cougar8775: I'm sure About.com will contradict this somehow, but.. one of the people sticking up for the woman in question is a person who had recovered from such a condition. So much for the "no way to come out of it" part.
As for my own current view on it, I'm so thoroughly disgusted and ashamed of the way the average person is reacting to this case, I'm pretty much done thinking about it. I'm only going to spend so much mental energy on someone that doesn't even directly affect me. Besides, the more I think about this guy, the more I have to tell myself he's not worth the criminal charges that might result from whatever actions I start to feel justified over when I think too much about it. Like I said, good thing I'm living about 100 miles away now and not in the same area.
Between getting ripped off this week and reading about this stuff, I've pretty much lost any shreds of faith in humanity I may have retained up until now. I'm just numb.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 26, 2005, 08:15:21 PM
My cat's name is Mittens
Joking apart, this case does not affect any of us, and there is nothing any of us can do to affect this case. We're all entitled to our opinions, but there is no sense in getting worked up about it. I personally would not want to be kept alive with a feeding tube, but that's me.
It all boils down to one thing: Make your wishes known, and get a living will to make sure they're followed. Be specific: Don't say "If there's no hope", because no mattre how bad it is somebody will always have hope. Specifically mention things like "no feeding tubes", etc.
Bird351: Don't get worked up about getting ripped off on eBay. Consider eBay losses the same as a store owner would consider shoplifting losses. I sell a LOT on eBay and have to deal with this kind of shiznit every day, so i know it's frustrating. They're inconvenient, they make you mad, but they're pretty much unavoidable. You can do things to reduce the risk (a store would install cameras, you can initiate a policy in which you don't deliver the game credits until the paypal funds clear into your bank account), but nothing is ever 100% safe.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 26, 2005, 08:40:28 PM
The loss may be trivial to someone like you who does a lot of business, but those 13 million credits were about half of my available stock of credits at the time. Imagine how you'd feel if you lost half your inventory of sellable items in one hit.
Also, it would be unwise for me to put off credit transfers until after the money hits my bank. PayPal (scum that they are) takes like 3-4 business days to post that money to my account. (since I yelled at them massively over the hold, they did one transfer in 2 business days.. but that's it) Even if it was in my bank account, I think they slipped it into the PayPal agreement that they can deduct that money from your bank account.. so right back it would go. If I put into effect a policy like that, I would lose customers. If a customer buys while I'm awake and at home and checking Ebay/PayPal/Email regularly, I'm often done with my transactions (I'm paid, they get their credits, we exchange feedback) within like 10-15 minutes. Add 2-4 days to that and suddenly the other credit sellers look like a much better option. The one policy I AM going to put into effect, though, is to not sell more than 5 million credits to a single person in a day.. perhaps even in a week.
My only real options here are to either grow my business SO big that this sort of loss is trivial, at which point I'd be another IGE.. (a credit seller so big they have 10 people working there, and can afford to advertise in magazines) or to just get out of it. I wouldn't mind the former, but this incident sucked the will out of me. I've barely been able to maintain my in-game sales (how I make the credits in the first place) since it happened. If I lean on this guy too heavily for screwing me, he could report me to Sony and have two of my accounts suspended for credit selling. They don't like credit sellers, because they claim it encourages cheating. Funny, I don't cheat to make mine.. but that's irrelevant to them.
I think more than anything it just made me realize how deep of a pit we're in right now, in this transitional phase. Losing close to $100 is an irritating inconvenience to most of you.. but it was near everything I had coming in this week. I've only made $20 in sales since then.. and the $30 that PayPal didn't put a hold on from before is already accounted for at the beginning of the month. I need to make the car more reliable, and make some money to pay for the classes we need to start taking soon if we're going to get anywhere with our plans. That $90-100, plus selling my 351, (which is starting to look somewhat less likely to happen anytime soon) would've helped things quite a bit.
Maybe in a few days I'll feel like generating some more credits to sell.. who knows.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 26, 2005, 09:09:52 PM
Quote from: Bird351
one of the people sticking up for the woman in question is a person who had recovered from such a condition. So much for the "no way to come out of it" part.
Can you tell me his name? I'd like to know a little more about his case.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 26, 2005, 09:11:41 PM
I'll have to dig up the article, it may be buried by now.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 26, 2005, 09:33:07 PM
Bah, screw this, I'll look for it tomorrow when I'm not working on my 5th beer. Frankly, I'm depressed right now over things not having to do with this case, and looking over this shiznit is just making it worse. Spent the last 20 minutes looking for it and I can't handle thinking about it that much.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 26, 2005, 10:57:46 PM
It was Pat Boone's son or something like that - he was on CNN last night
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on March 26, 2005, 11:30:58 PM
Bird 351 the lady that you hapen to be talking about IF we are talking about the same had polio, she was not in a progressive vegetive state. Heard some about a woman that had polio and was now wheel chair ridden on rush limbaugh.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 27, 2005, 12:01:56 AM
Don't remember seeing anything about polio, but I'm pretty sure it was a woman, at least. She had suffered some sort of massive brain trauma and was out of it for years.. but is now up and about living a relatively normal life, from what I recall of it.
I just can't fish through all the articles (and, no surprise, there are TONS of them now) for more than a few minutes without worsening my mood significantly.. and I was hoping to counteract that bad mood tonight with a few drinks and some non-depressing diversion.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on March 27, 2005, 12:34:37 AM
Well sorry for screwing that all up but she was only in her coma for a few years 5 or 6 not 15.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 27, 2005, 12:51:46 AM
There was another woman's name who came up while I was looking for that article I mentioned, and she had been in a coma for 20 years and just started talking to people one day. Sarah was her first name, but I forgot her last.. but a story on her came up on like 20 different Google links. Same story word for word on every link, though.
Now I'm dealing with the ripoff guy again.. found out a third person was ripped off by him, but this guy got a negative feedback in. (I had left positive feedback, since at the time I left it, the buyer had paid.. couple days later he put on the hold) I've left follow-up feedback on it, as has the third guy who got ripped off.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: JeremyB on March 27, 2005, 01:40:38 AM
Ryan Corbin (http://www.ryansreach.com/home1.htm) is Pat Boone's grandson. He fell through a skylight and bashed his head in pretty good. He came out of his coma in ~6 months. Sarah Scantlin (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050213/D887B94G0.html) is the other person that was mentioned. She was never in a PVS. The articles say she could blink yes or no, thus she had awareness of the "outside".
Neither case has any bearing on Schiavo. I've looked around to see if anybody in Terri's condition for such a long time has come back. I haven't found one yet. Ann Coulter has an article (http://www.yaf.org/speakers/op-ed/coulter_schiavo.html) that mentions several coma victims that recovered. Problem is, none of them were ever in a PVS. The closest I've found is Corbin, but he began to recover within a year. Shiavo undwernt extensive rehab for over 1.5 years without coming out of the coma.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: ban-one on March 27, 2005, 07:05:59 AM
Ann Coulter has been in a PVS for years. Have you listened to her talk?
What I don't understand is there has been relatively no mention by any news agency about Terri's bulimia being the actual cause of the heart attack that started it all. Sure they may make brief mention of it, but nothing in depth. Just want to paint her husband as an insensitive prick who's only in it for the money. Had that been the case he'd of been gone long ago. If her parents, like any other parents, are so concerned about watching her starve to death, why didn't they step in as a parent should when she was willingly doing it to herself? I can't wait until the only thing on tv are stories about how after 9/11 'we're still vulnerable at nuclear power plants and here is to bypass security' or stories about 'more deadly attacks in Iraq today'.
F the mainstream media, give me Army of Darkness on SciFi any day!
In Bruce Campbell we trust.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on March 27, 2005, 01:25:43 PM
Yes in BRUCE CAMPBELL WE ALL TRUST. And i have heard of the bulimia i think that she had a problem with potassium.
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 27, 2005, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: ban-one
Ann Coulter has been in a PVS for years. Have you listened to her talk?
.
Tell me about it.
Here is everything you need to know about this case:[/u]
Tom (hypocrite) DeLay had to decide to cut his own dad's life support: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&e=4&u=/ap/brain_damaged_woman_delay
Bob (don't kill my daughter) Shindler terminated his mothers life support: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1077219,00.html
-snip-
"But, given the vehemence with which he has been fighting to prolong Terri's life, it is a little surprising to learn that Robert decided to turn off the life-support system for his mother. She was 79 at the time, and had been ill with pneumonia for a week, when her kidneys gave out. "I can remember like yesterday the doctors said she had a good life. I asked, 'If you put her on a ventilator does she have a chance of surviving, of coming out of this thing?'" Robert says. "I was very angry with God because I didn't want to make those decisions.""
"Myths about the Shiavo Case"[/u]
Michael Schiavo tried to kill his wife. Terri's nurse said so.
If you want to believe this you must also believe that practically person involved in Mrs. Schiavo's care conspired to cover up attempted murder. The court did review the affidavit of one Carla Iyer, registered nurse who claims:
- Mrs. Schiavo was lucid. - All of her notes indicating Terri was lucid were mysteriously deleted. - She saved Mrs. Schiavo's life after her husband "injected her" with insulin. - A fellow LPN was possibly killing patients. - She was fired after she told police about all these crimes.
The court found Ms. Iyer's tales "incredible" which is legalese for "bullshiznit". In order for her claims to be true everyone from Mrs. Schiavo's doctors to the police had to decide to cover up for Michael Schiavo.
Theresa Schiavo is lucid.
I do not wish to be disrespectful here, but I am dealing with people determined to ignore cold facts, so I will be blunt. Mrs. Schiavo is about as lucid as your average Venus Flytrap. She responds reflexively to some stimulus, but there is NO willful, deliberate or conscious actions.
The cerebral cortex of Mrs. Schiavo's brains was destroyed 15 years ago due to anoxia (oxygen starvation) brought about when heart stopped beating due to a potassium imbalance. The cerebral cortex is responsible for all higher brain functions. It is the part of the brain that makes you "you". It allows you to think, it contains your personality, your language and and voluntary motor functions. Without this part of your brain you are like a computer with know operating system. They can boot you up in the morning, but you pretty much just sit there and do nothing except consume electricity.
Theresa Schiavo could get better.
Yes, theoretically, in a parallel universe, two hundred years in the future where Star Trek is actually real, Dr. McCoy could travel back in time and stumble across Mrs. Schiavo and give her a pill (which she couldn't swallow, since swallowing is a conscious action) and she would regrow her cerebral cortex. Mr. Spock would then find the keeper of her katra and restore her personality via a Vulcan Mind Meld™.
But, short of that, no, she won't get better.
But people have come out of these types of situations before. I read in Reader's Digest about this guy who was in a coma/vegetative state who suddenly started writing a novel...
Stop! This is an "apples and oranges" situation. The folks you have read about suffered physical trauma to their brain, usually as a result of falls and car crashes. The cerebral cortex was damaged, but still there. Mrs. Schiavo's cortex is not damaged, it is DEAD. The brain tissue died from lack of oxygen. In fact, the cortex has shriveled and liquefied.
Let's go to the CT Scan where Carol Merrill is standing:
(http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/mt/images/schiavo_ct_scan.jpg) As you can see, you can't think with what isn't there.
Future medical advances, like stem cell research, could help her regrow dead brain tissue.
Yeah, like stem cell research is blazing along in Bush's America. That issue aside, such things are WAY in the future. Also, assuming such a technology showed up courtesy of Dr. McCoy's vacation layover in this dimension, and you regrew the dead brain tissue, the tissue would be BLANK. The unique essence that was Theresa Schiavo has been lost forever. It was lost 15 years ago.
Nothing is going to change this. Not Wendi Freisen hypnosis CDs, not Bob with a truckload of Enzyte™, and not Benny Hinn and a Holy Ghost Machine Gun (pat pending).
Senator Bill Frist, who is a heart surgeon said Terri's diagnosis was wrong and he looked at the tapes and she wasn't really in a vegetative state.
1) Dr. Bill is a quack. Why do I say that? Because only a quack would diagnose a person he has NEVER met, never mind examined.
2) It's Mrs. Schiavo to you.
3) While Dr. Bill is a medical doctor (or at least he plays one in the senate), he is NOT a neurologist or a neurosurgeon. He is not qualified to make ANY diagnosis of Mrs. Schiavo's condition. A civil engineer is not a nuclear engineer and we don't give much credence to his opinion on nuclear reactor design.
4) Dr. Bill is using Mrs. Schiavo as a tool to pander to the religiously insane side of the Republican party. In 1989 Frist advocated changing the definition of "brain dead" to include anencephalic babies. Anencephalic babies are in the same state as Terri Schiavo except that she suffered a physical trauma that put her into a vegetative state while the anencephalic babies are born that way.
Michael wants his wife dead so he can collect the money from her settlement.
1) The fund was exhausted years ago. This charge was made back in 1998 and was found without merit by the court. Michael had at the time formally offered to surrender his wife's trust fund to independent administration. He would in now way benefit from the money.
2) That's Mr. Schiavo to you.
Michael Schiavo wants his wife dead so he can marry another woman.
Mr. Schiavo could have divorced his wife long ago and married anyone he wanted. Mr. Schiavo started dating again at the insistence of his in-laws who encouraged him to get on with his life. Mr. Schiavo went so far as to introduce women he was dating to his in-laws.
Michael Schiavo abused his wife and neglected her care.
Dr. Wolfson, the court-appointed Guardian Ad Litem who spent a month investigating the Schiavo case found that Mrs. Schiavo received outstanding care from both her parents and her husband. In fact, he noted in his report that after 13 years in a bed, she had never ONCE developed a bed sore. The medical professionals out there will tell you that this is indicative of near miraculous, exceptional care.
Theresa Schiavo's parents are evil.
No, they just love their daughter. They have allowed their love to cloud their judgment so much that they have become puppiess of outside groups with political agendas who are lying to them and giving them false hopes.
Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to kill his wife.
No, he asked the court to step in (in accordance with Florida law) and determine whether life support should be stopped. The court, acting as a proxy, ruled that Mrs. Schiavo was in a "persistive vegetative state", had no hope of getting better, and had told people at various times (funerals) before her accident that she had no desire to be kept alive in such a state.
The court found all the evidence "clear and convincing" and order her feeding tube removed. The COURT did this, not Michael Schiavo.
A feeding tube is nourishment, not life support.
Not according to Florida law:
Life-prolonging procedure" means any medical procedure, treatment, or intervention, including artificially provided sustenance and hydration, which sustains, restores, or supplants a spontaneous vital function.
§ 765.101(10)
The video tape I saw shows here reacting to people.
The video you saw was edited to give that impression. It was culled from hours of video where Mrs. Schiavo did absolutely nothing. Random or reflexive reactions do not demonstrate cognition.
Removing the feeding tube is a cruel thing to do. She will be in agony, dying of hunger and thirst.
No. The part of Mrs. Schiavo's brain that would register pain of this sort is gone. Medical professionals describe the death as peaceful.
A summary of Mrs. Schaivo's Guardian Ad Litem's report can be found here:
"Death threats have been made against him for allowing Michael Schiavo to remove the feeding tube that has kept his 41-year-old wife alive for the past 15 years, and the Southern Baptist church that Greer belonged to for years has asked him to leave the congregation.
Greer - a conservative Christian and longtime Republican known for an easy manner - has become the public face of the judiciary in this internationally watched fight. But despite the mounting pressure, he has been steadfast in his rulings that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state and did not want to be kept alive artificially."
Sanctity of life my ass... :disappoin
Title: Re: Just.. disgusting.
Post by: Bird351 on March 28, 2005, 12:21:49 AM
..and my disgust with the average person's response just keeps on rising.
Ahh, that poll.. good ol' "democracy" in action. "Democracy" as in two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
You lost any chance of me reading all that when you started the "that's Mr. Schiavo to you" nonsense. As far as I'm concerned, "Mr. Schiavo" can be "Mr. Sucking-chest-wound-from-a-rifle-round".. I might even hoist a beverage in toast to one less scumbag in the world, if someone did it.
Too bad you can't chalk up my reaction to some "fanatical religious right-wing" thing. I'm neither a christian nor a republican.
Well, I'm guessing this thread is closing in on a lock.. but it's no longer a concern of mine. I wash my hands of this shiznit. My fiance is tired of the sudden downturn in my mood that comes every time one of these type posts or articles comes up.. and I'm tired of having to tell her I'm not in the mood to joke around just a few minutes after the last episode of joking around. Let "Mrs. Schiavo to you" die, let "Mr. Schiavo to you" die painfully, I don't care anymore. The confirmation of this post will be my last viewing of this thread. I have other matters to get annoyed over, like every time I think of that snot-nosed little punk that ripped me off.
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: ban-one on March 28, 2005, 06:31:49 AM
Hey Cougar5.0, you near Nashua?
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 28, 2005, 09:37:42 AM
Quote from: ban-one
Hey Cougar5.0, you near Nashua?
I'm within 30 miles of Nashua - why?
Bird351 - I'm sorry that this case bothers you so much - I simply collected a summary of facts about this case - sorry that you do not want to hear another point of view on this issue - there are 10's of millions of us who represent keeping the government out of our personal lives and who support states rights and the Constitution of the United States. We can't change laws after the fact.
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: ban-one on March 28, 2005, 09:56:43 AM
I have a buddy that lives in Nashua. Has his own software company. You ever go near the Kennedy car wash?
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 28, 2005, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: ban-one
I have a buddy that lives in Nashua. Has his own software company. You ever go near the Kennedy car wash?
No, that's not familiar to me - I rarely get to Nashua though. Haven't been there for about a year.
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: ban-one on March 28, 2005, 10:54:51 AM
The Kennedy car wash is the lake where Teddy dumped the car and drowned that girl oh so many years ago.
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 28, 2005, 11:14:00 AM
Oh, I thought you were talking about something serious.
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: ban-one on March 28, 2005, 11:26:04 AM
Just trying to ease the tension. Seriously though, that supercharger looks great on your engine!
Title: Re: Not disgusting anymore.
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 28, 2005, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: ban-one
Just trying to ease the tension. Seriously though, that supercharger looks great on your engine!
Thanks :D - I'm getting a bigger compressor this year - I love pouring money down the drain :giggle: