General => Lounge => Topic started by: 88tbird5.0 on September 11, 2008, 08:10:15 PM
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 88tbird5.0 on September 11, 2008, 08:10:15 PM
so this winter im planning on workin on the car if money allows me to. i want to paint it. im thinking about just painting it black. but my question is, is there anyone on here running a stroker in there fox bird or cougar? im really thinking about building a stroker for mine this winter but idk what all im gonna have to do. is it worth the money? i know im gonna have to at least either get a newer 302 to put in the car or rebuild the one i have because its burning oil and its got 160,000 miles on it, so i was just looking through a jegs catalog and i was thinking about just stroking it. lol but i dont want to do that if its gonna cost a couple thousand dollars
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: DVP on September 11, 2008, 08:22:04 PM
Think Bob has a 408 in his cougar, 347Thunder (think thats right), not sure who else
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: grutinator on September 11, 2008, 10:19:52 PM
Quote from: 88tbird5.0;235902
so this winter im planning on workin on the car if money allows me to. i want to paint it. im thinking about just painting it black. but my question is, is there anyone on here running a stroker in there fox bird or cougar? im really thinking about building a stroker for mine this winter but idk what all im gonna have to do. is it worth the money? i know im gonna have to at least either get a newer 302 to put in the car or rebuild the one i have because its burning oil and its got 160,000 miles on it, so i was just looking through a jegs catalog and i was thinking about just stroking it. lol but i dont want to do that if its gonna cost a couple thousand dollars
my 347 is far from ready to go in my tbird, but i can lend some advise. theres a couple ways to do this, the cheap way and the right way. sure you can build a super cheap 347. will it make good power? no. will it be really reliable? probably not.
you better be ready to spend some money if your gonna do things right( which i found out its better to do things right and spend a little more cash then to have to rebuild or buy the same part twice by buying cheapo stuff). figure the kit is a grand, machine work is a grand...heads, cam, intake, injectors, stall converter, rockers, lifter, all GOOD QUALITY parts. best way to sum it up, 302 parts make 302 power, they dont belong on a 347.
im not trying to scare you from the stroker, but you should know this stuff before you get in over your head.
p.s. go 347, theres no reason to do a 331 for the same price
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: GrannysBird on September 12, 2008, 02:29:28 AM
Personally I were you and money was a concern, which it seems to be, I would just throw a set of aftermarket forged pistons in the motor you have now and throw that extra money you didn't spend on the stroker kit at machine work. If you want an obscene amount of power later put in lower compression pistons that will put you at a 9 to 1 ratio with the heads you are planning on running or buy a set of heads with a large CC. Then you have the option of supercharging it later should you so desire, should you end up not supercharging it you can always pull the heads have them milled and at the same time throw a big ole cam in and rev it high heaven. Of course with soaring gas prices you just might want to stick with the lower compression and turbo/supercharge it and get 20mpg on the highway and as an added bonus in the meantime you can run 87-89 octane all day long.
Also keep in mind that when you throw a high stall converter into that AOD of yours you're going to be feeling quite a bit of extra torque right then and there.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: Bob on September 12, 2008, 10:09:44 AM
I went with a 408 because the car was already setup to run a 351w and I had all the stuff to make it work (oil pan, headers, flywheel etc...) For me to rebuild 351w I was aready going to spend the money on rods, pistons, and machine work. So I figured why not buy a crank too (visions of the crank I split in half back in 2006 made me want to go forged)
Yeah its true to avoid 302 parts on larger strokers etc... on your final build. You need to put a plan in place and follow it. Mine is like this: Build solid 408 bottom end, all forged parts, and custom cam to bring it all together. I could have went with a cast crank and saved $600 on my stroker kit but I wanted to have forged for down the road if/when my combo changes.
Building engines with quality parts gets expensive. I bought some stuff used where possible like valve covers, upper and lower intake, EGR spacer, bellhousing scattershield etc.. Be prepared to go well over your est. Currently I'm $1100 over what I expected this project to cost and its not even running yet.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 32VFoxBird on September 12, 2008, 10:11:22 AM
ah, another thread about someone wanting to build a big motor, but has no money. good luck!
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 12, 2008, 12:47:11 PM
Quote from: grutinator;235913
my 347 is far from ready to go in my tbird, but i can lend some advise. theres a couple ways to do this, the cheap way and the right way. sure you can build a super cheap 347. will it make good power? no. will it be really reliable? probably not.
you better be ready to spend some money if your gonna do things right( which i found out its better to do things right and spend a little more cash then to have to rebuild or buy the same part twice by buying cheapo stuff). figure the kit is a grand, machine work is a grand...heads, cam, intake, injectors, stall converter, rockers, lifter, all GOOD QUALITY parts. best way to sum it up, 302 parts make 302 power, they dont belong on a 347.
im not trying to scare you from the stroker, but you should know this stuff before you get in over your head.
p.s. go 347, theres no reason to do a 331 for the same price
Someone has been on sbftech.com and listening to Woody and Jay :bowdown: . Good man:D
I plan on doing a 347 when I blow my current engine, or when I have the cash, which ever comes first lol ;) . You can bet that I'll be talking to Woody for the short block (as a plus he's in Chicago) and Jay for the heads and cam.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 347Thunder on September 12, 2008, 12:59:47 PM
The only advantage of the 331 is longevity because of the shorter stroke, but I would do the 347 just because its bigger and cooler lol. You can get the kit that I bought from eagle it came with 10.5:1 JE pistons and it was ballanced from eagle with flywheel and forged crank. I have like 20,000 miles on it and all miles were done as a daily driver. So the motor can be used but you need to decide to either jump the fence or not, don't half ass too much money to loose.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 12, 2008, 02:09:53 PM
347 will live just as long as a 331 if you build it right ;)
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 347Thunder on September 12, 2008, 04:09:21 PM
Not true due to the extra angle of the rod travel, but they will go when they go nothing is a guarantee :D I have had turbo and SC (15-20 lbs boost) friends use 331 due to the less resistance then a 347. :burnout: :burnout:
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: thundr306 on September 12, 2008, 07:01:30 PM
Money is the key in building anything. I have been running my 302 with stock crank, stock rods and forged pistons. It has been very reliable. You don't need to go overboard to have fun. You could probably pick up a complete HO, have it gone through, maybe pickup some cheap used Gt40s, cam, intake and be happy. It's all in what you want and/or can afford to pay for. Jim
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 88tbird5.0 on September 12, 2008, 07:27:00 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;235947
ah, another thread about someone wanting to build a big motor, but has no money. good luck!
lol yeah and that of course is why i have decided to stick with just rebuilding my existing 302. cheaper and easier. the car will probably be sitting all winter because i dont think it will do good in the snow anyways because its already bad enough in the rain. but i plan on either painting it black or a dark red this winter if i can find a place to paint it and while im at it ill probably pull the motor and paint the engine bay and just rebuild what i have and put a stall converter in it and such. do some cheaper performance mods here and there but nothing too over the top. maybe a cam, intake, and lifters and some gt40 or ported e7 heads if i can find any. im only 16 years old and im trying hard to get a job so i can pay for all of this stuff this winter. sorry if i come off as the spoiled kid but i honestly dont think i am. i bought the car myself from a friend for $200 and my dad drove the car after i bought it til i got my license
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 1WLD BRD on September 12, 2008, 08:34:17 PM
dont worry about 32VFoxBird... his Bird hasnt ran in 4 years.... so he is in the same boat :flip: LOL
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 32VFoxBird on September 12, 2008, 09:16:40 PM
Quote from: 1WLD BRD;235991
dont worry about 32VFoxBird... his Bird hasnt ran in 4 years.... so he is in the same boat :flip: LOL
thats not due to lack of funds. just lack of interest. and its been down 3 years!
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 1WLD BRD on September 13, 2008, 09:43:15 AM
sure.... thats the same reason I havent swapped a new gt500 driveline into my tbird yet too. ;)
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 32VFoxBird on September 17, 2008, 10:42:04 AM
maybe you didnt see the vids i posted, but the motor ran, and the car was about 90% complete. it just needed several odds and ends finished to be able to drive it.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 86T-bird on September 17, 2008, 09:37:22 PM
"Not true due to the extra angle of the rod travel, but they will go when they go nothing is a guarantee I have had turbo and SC (15-20 lbs boost) friends use 331 due to the less resistance then a 347."
Go to SBFTECH.com and review the "Myths and Rumors" section. The 331/347 debate is clarified. There is no reason to not to build a 347. Lots of mis-information out there in mag rags and on the net. That site sets it straight.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: 5.8fastcat on September 17, 2008, 10:03:04 PM
The Myth and Rumor that is NOT a RUMOR. It take money to make POWER. Just like they said don't be cheap on your parts or you wil get to buy parts twice.
Just my 2 cents
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 18, 2008, 12:42:15 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;235969
347 will live just as long as a 331 if you build it right ;)
"Not true due to the extra angle of the rod travel, but they will go when they go nothing is a guarantee I have had turbo and SC (15-20 lbs boost) friends use 331 due to the less resistance then a 347."
Go to SBFTECH.com and review the "Myths and Rumors" section. The 331/347 debate is clarified. There is no reason to not to build a 347. Lots of mis-information out there in mag rags and on the net. That site sets it straight.
Yeah that's where I get my SBF info and how I know a 347 will live just as long as a 331. Why not build the 347 and get the extra cubes.....
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: jcassity on September 18, 2008, 01:02:56 AM
what is the 347 now a days? its not actually 347 for corrected pistons but close ,, right?
The rod angle on the 347 "could" decrease the life of your cylinder walls in the middle but I dont own one, never mic'd one out after wear, just kept up on the topic a little now and again.
Anyone ever compared the specs on a chevy 302 to the ford 302? Now those were some RPM gettin sob's.
Title: anyone running a 331 or a 347 stroker in there fox?
Post by: V8Demon on September 18, 2008, 07:23:31 AM
Quote
The only advantage of the 331 is longevity because of the shorter stroke
Quote
347 will live just as long as a 331 if you build it right
Quote
Not true due to the extra angle of the rod travel
***SIGH***
Rod angle is proportional to rod/stroke ratio.
As far as rod/stroke ratio with a 5.4 rod: 347 = 5.4 / 3.4 = 1.588:1
For the 5.315 rod: 331 = 5.315/3.25 = 1.635:1 347 = 5.315/3.4 = 1.563:1
Many motors come from the factory today with worse rod/stroke ratios. The inline 6-250 has a 1.50 rod/stroke ratio for one.
And as far as DETERMINING HOW MUCH CYLINDER WALL PRESSURE IS APPLIED, read here: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=127842
The results? The 331 generates 96% of the sidewall pressure that a 347 does.
The formula is here as well.... http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jus/0303/kuo.pdf
What about the compression height of the shorter piston on the long rod 347 you say?
A 5.315 rod 347 uses the same piston as a 331 with a 1.175" compression height with a 1.59 rod ratio as opposed to the 1.09" compression height used in 5.4" rod equipped 347's with a 1.56 rod ratio. The larger piston is of course going to be heavier, but the wrist pin is moved down and does not intersect the oil ring land which is a bonus as well (although the newer 5.4 kits do not have the oil consumption issues the old ones did). Like everything else it's a trade off, but the shorter life........mmmm not buying it. Not if properly built and assembled. By the rod ratio logic, all of us 5.0 guys should destroke to 289 cubes.....Food for thought: An old 400 SBC. 5.565 rod and a 3.75 stroke FROM THE FACTORY with CAST pistons. R:S = 1.496