Hello!
I was very happy to see an ad about '87 T-bird for sale, about 60 miles from me. The guy wanted $1200 for it but lowered to $1000 now and said it needs some work (mostly suspension, front brakes and starter). It's in running condition but doesn't look too good.
What are the bad things that may happen to 2.3? If the timing belt breaks, do I end up with valves in pistons and total mess?
Does it have hydraulic clutch control?
What should I look for that may lower the price? I guess it should accelerate at least twice faster than the 3.8 if it's OK, right?
I'd like to use it on classic cars track days (always wanted to paint the hood in flat black :D)... or as parts car for my first T-bird.
Let me know what you think?
Mariusz...
The 2.3 is not a interference engine, no prob if the belt breaks...
Yes they have a hydraulic clutch... Can be changed over to cable using Mustang 4cyl/'86 earlier TC components(I believe bell housing must be swapped)...
The 5 speed should boost to around 14-15 psi and will be a real fireball compared to the 3.8... At 90/100K mi, it's common for the fuel pumps to be weak causing bogging at more than a few psi boost(had this prob with several of the ones I've owned)... Changing a pump isn't a big deal, stock pump is same as 5.0 Mustang...
If oil hasn't been changed regularly, the cam will wear and be noisy, not a big deal to swap... Bottom ends are tough, just about can't hurt one unless it's run out of oil, or revved to 7500 rpm plus(not too likely since the EEC cuts fuel at 6250)...
Also check that the ABS system lights are operating(just above the premium fuel & ride control switches)... When ign sw is first turned on the red "brake" should go out in a few seconds followed by the amber ABS lamp... Also check while driving, a bad wheel sensor will turn on the amber light... If the red stays on it can be a park brake, low fluid prob OR the electric pump in the master cylinder assembly may not be operating... If the pump is down, it will have almost no brakes...
Looks fairly decent under the hood...
Inner marker lamps are unique to the TC, the headlamps and outers are same as other '87-'88 Birds...
You can call me a total NUT now... I finally got it for $800 today.
It runs really nice, clearcoat is peeling off badly but only from the front, and brakes are very, very weak.
The ABS lamp is permanently lit up, but I don't remember how the red "brake" lamp was acting (haven't noticed it with engine runing). I'll check the pump motor in master cylinder tomorrow, hoping it's just a relay or wire problem.
What's the correct tire size for these rims?
Hey, congrats! It looks pretty nice, just dirty. The stock snowflakes are 16". People on this board have whatever you need to fix it up, if you can afford the shipping. LOL. Good luck with your new purchase!!
Congrats, TCs are fun cars....
Original tires are 225/60/16...
The upper alternator bracket appears to be missing....
For the brake problem it may be a relay... The front one of the pair on the fire wall, beside the clutch slave cylinder is the one that controls operation... Fairly common for them to fail... If the red "Brake" lamp isn't operating someone could have removed the bulb... As I stated prior, it should be on when switch is first turned on as it is monitoring system pressure... You should be able to hear the pump run(hum).... Normally they run approx 30 seconds and shut off when system pressure is up... A couple pumps of the brakes will bring it on again for 5-10 seconds...
NATO has a very good FAQ section that should answer about any question you have...
http://www.turbotbird.com/FAQpage/FAQpage.htm
http://natomessageboard.com/ultimatebb.php
Good deal,especially for over in europe.
I'm sure birds are rare over there as it is let alone TC's.
Nice buy.Good luck with it.Keep us posted on your progress and keep those pics coming.
It's alive, it's alive! :)
I printed Teves II troubleshooting article from "NATO" website this morning and drove the 3.8 to the place where I keep my cars. After pumping up the tires I started the TC to see if some miracle happened to the brake pump... I wasn't that lucky. So I started from the relay, removed the plug and shorted two contacts described in the article and... I heard the pump! :) So I thought to take the relay apart, but beeing a little lazy working on some little plastic parts I thought that tapping with screw driver may help and... my TC is has brakes again! :hick:
So I took it for a first faster ride to see if turbocharger works. Drove it for a mile or two and when I was going back, temp gauge was about to reach red line... thankfully I was almost back at my place in a minute and it haven't boiled - found another problem - fan won't engage. I opened the A/C fan relay and shorted it manually with piece of folded paper. I couldn't find any switch in the radiator, what turns on the fan?
After a few minutes, I restarted the engine with fan runing and I saw a big cloud of smoke. It was smoking for a minute or two and the smoke was gone, so I took it for another ride and everything was OK - no smoke at all. So I parked it to eat dinner... another start and another cloud of smoke. Do you think it's a prolem with valve stem seals? It smokes until I revv it up to 2000 for a few seconds and the smoke is gone and doesn't show up until I stop the engine and restart it after few minutes. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance for help!
The IRCM operates the fans... Integrated Relay Control Module... The EEC operates the IRCM relays(there are two), but must have a good EEC temp sensor(between the injectors #2 & #3)...
Instructions to check it out on NATO...
BUT I remember grounding pin #17(pink wire), turns on aux fan as does operating the AC(system must be charged, it's triggered from the low pressure switch)..
I've yet to see a 2.3T with bad valve seals... Smoke may be due to the turbo, check it for end & lateral play... Should be info on NATO...
agreed,you need a hew temp sensor.
Great car to have a little fun with.
Nice find... Now you own all the birds in Poland.
looks like a great start the TC are really hard to blow up when u blow a timing belt. AS I like to say its probley the closest motor package of anyAmerican cars that is as close to a bulit proff motor yell get form of the show room.
Almost all... there's at least one more 1987/88 T-bird (TC). I also saw a 1986 V6 for sale last Spring - $6800 :rollin:
Wanted to take some "family" photos of the twins today, but it was a little too dark. TC evidently had a hard life.
I changed oil in TC today, not to mess up the engine driving on oil that was there for a few years. I noticed that it's not smoking after cold startup, only on hot engine, so it's rather turbo problem. But with new oil I get a lot less smoke, and it doesn't smoke for so long. I wanted to show you that cloud on the pic, but it didn't smoke this time :D
BTW. Do I have to remove a part of intake to get to that temp sensor you mentioned?
I always thought 302 is the thing?
It's really in nice shape. It doesn't look as if there's any rust on it either
There i some rust in lower parts of the body - not a big holes, except lower driver side fender. It doesnt look that good underneath, but still no see thru holes.
If you wanna hear how the rusted exhaust sounds and how it revvs up here's a short video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMYCG1EQsVo
Depends on who you ask.... :burnout: :rollin:
The sensor will be a bunch easier to change if you remove the upper intake, but with swivel socket, can be done with it in place... Before you change anything, scan the computer and see if there is a code for it...
I noticed today, that there's one thing wrong under the hood. There isn't any vacuum line going to MAP sensor. How come engine runs good? BTW.What's the routing of the vacuum line to the MAP? Maybe it's sill hanging somewhere around?
I have to read codes, but it started to rain here so badly that it's not fun to work on cars :( And it's gonna stay this way for a week or so :(
Not supposed to be one, on a TC its used as a BAP(barometric pressure) sensor... Same deal on a Mass Air 5.0 setup...
Hey Mariusz try a Bobs header and a I don't remiber what the name of the company is but its like striner or something like that. If anyone knows there website let me know too.
First I have to spend some $$$ on front and rear brake pads, new spark lugs, cables, fixing up the turbo etc. Will think about some performance stuff next year :)
Just a quick TC related question... can I put base T-bird 14'' rims on the TC or maybe the rotors are too big? There are matal wires almost coming out from of the front tires and I need good tires to pass inspection, so I wanted to use a winter set from the 3.8 temoprarly.
the 87 - 88 TC would require 15 inch or more rims
I believe 15" is the smallest that will fit over the front rotors, the 14'' will fit the rear...
Yeah, and some very early ten hole, and turbines won't clear 16" either...there's a number or code cast into the inside of the wheel, but I don't remember what it is...it was a date code, I think '87 and newer wheels will work...I personally had turbines on my TC...I can look at them in the daylight, and let you know...
Yeah, and some very early ten hole, and turbines won't clear either...there's a number or code cast into the inside of the wheel, but I don't remember what it is...it was a date code, I think '87 and newer wheels will work...I personally had turbines on my TC...I can look at them in the daylight, and let you know...
Thanks for the info! Wish it was that easy to get a spare set of ten hole or turbines here :D All I can get easily here with 4x108 bolt pattern are eg. Focus rims but I guess they have wrong offset?
What's the correct offset range for the T-bird? I think Focus 15'' rims have ET around 42-44.
Congrats on your 87 TC purchase.
I have been playing with these cars since 1992 and still like playing with them !
I still get excited when I see one for sale. I have to check it out even if I don't have the room to bring it home.
Congrats on the purchase! It looks good! You shouldn't have to remove the intake for the fan switch. Someone mentioned a switch between injectors, but isn't there another switch in the lower intake? That was one I swapped out...I also had to flush the water jackets--there was so much gunk in there that it was preventing the sensor from sensing the temperature properly...
Hey everyone
I just bought an 88 turbo coupe and I am looking to rebuild the engine, and do a bit of body and interior work.
Any good links to where I can shop for some parts.
Thanks
They will need the hub bored out I believe. They will fit from what Ive heard. Think there might be something on CoolCats.
It got colder here and we had first snow so I have more time to work on my cars :)
Turbo Coupe needs new brake pads, but here's what I saw when I lifted it up and looked underneath - looks sad :( Now I know why I could use parking brake only once.
BTW. How can I tell if I have large or small diameter caliper piston? What's the diameter or large one? Choosing correct brake pads is confusing.
Wow. It's looking a little scary under there. Are you planning on doing a little rust removal while under there?
My friend who is a Fox-Stang fan offered me this starter for my Turbo Coupe. Mine is shot, it spins but turns the flywheel only every 15-20 times and it's also busted by the previous owner who thought that hitting it with a pipe will fix worn brushes :hick: He said that it's out from a SVO Mustang, do you know it will fit my TC? The number on the front casting is E2BF-11131-AA
Here's also additional pic of rusted strut tower. Other side has a hole in it - .
I'll give Gemplers Rust Converter a try to prevent it from rusting any further. I'll have to cut out those rusted parts anyway and weld in new pieces - that's the only way to make the parking brake work again. I'll wire brush it and see how bad it's overall. I also have to see how are the subframes near strut towers.
I also have good news - there's a TC without engine and tranny waiting for me 100 miles away. It has straight rust free undercarriage and all the TC stuff in good condition with only 70K miles (struts, brakes, rear end etc.) I'll haul it home in in December for sure. Than I'll have to decide what's easier for me as replacing the drivetrain will be plug and play. And I'll have a spare hood with scoops to put it in my 3.8 :D Think that Turbo Coupe project may take a longer than expected... not to mention I just wanted a parts car for the V6 :D
Think I shouldn't be surprised with all that rust. My TC was imported to Poland in 1995 from Pennsylvania, than it was always stored outside with last 3 years in a field with left front tire flat, so it was almost touching the grass. If only storing car in garage could heal rust now :D
This problem is typical for all Fords of these age I heard. I had to solve it too. The solution is to dry the electromagnet and seal the cap.
Hello friend from the South! :)
Aren't you reffering to the starter solenoid mounted near the battery? I already replaced it and it's evidently starter motor problem.
Have you been on the American cars meeting in Brno this July? Hope I'll get there next year.
Save this one & kill the rusty TC... You'll be ahead in the long run...
Although I may not be the right person to suggest doing this. TurboCoupe50 does have a good idea. It may save you a lot of problems if you rebuild the less rusted car.
Hello!
It was long winter for me with no inspiration to work on my cars. It's finally getting warm here, but I have bad news - I took the Turbo Coupe for a ride and it was running really nice until 2-3 shift at around 4500rpm when something bad happened :(
It still runs but lost some power. First I thought it's a bad spark plug becouse it sounds like running on three cylinders now - much louder exhaust. I replaced all spark plugs, but the old ones were all looking good (not wet from fuel or covered with oil).
With new spark plugs I can hear it backfires, but it's not pinging. Do you think timing belt jumped a tooth?
Mariusz...
Is it making boost still?
How long was it sitting without being started?
Possibly bad fuel or water in the system?
If the belt was a little loose, It's fairly common to jump a tooth on the cam... Should be able to tell using a timing light... With the timing set to "0"(TDC), the pointer on the cam gear should be close to being at center(never seen one that was actually centered)... BUT usually if the belt is only a tooth off, it will be lazy at low speeds, and still make good power at 3000 RPM up... If timing is OK check compression, may have popped the head gasket, that would cause the exhaust to sound odd...
I haven't checked the timing, but it was running well over 3000 rpm as you mentioned and turbo was OK too. I wonder if it may be a siezed valve, does it happen in these engines?
Anyway I decided to sell the TC and it was really fast deal. I sold it last friday and I have a good contact with new owner so I'll forward him your posts.
There were simply too many bugs to fix in the TC, it needed engine overhaul, was badly rusted, needed new paint etc. Anyway it has a good new home now and this guy is working on it all the time from the day he got it and he said he's going to completly restore it. I'd keep it, but I had to face the truth that I don't have time to fix it.
Here's a video I recorded when he was leaving my city and drove it 250 miles away: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2W48pLQ2X4
The Turbo Coupe won't start now in his garage, it lost fuel pressure. Spark plugs got fouled with oil. It was first trip over 10 miles after almost 4 years of sitting. Teves II master cylinder died few miles from his home, but he made it!
That main road when hewas next to you reminds me of Starrett City in Brooklyn.