I was hot rodding a little at lunch today,and I think I over-revved and pushed the Sport too hard I could smell some clutch (yuk).After that,the car has a slight shudder to it.I had a shudder like that before with the Sport and it turned out to be a loose rocker arm.I checked them and they were fine.I checked the plugs,all good,changed the oil (unrelated,it was time anyway),and the shudder remains.The battery was disconnected for about an hour while I was checking the rockers and anything else I could see.Any ideas ?????? I knew the car was running too good to be true.
sounds like you clutch is fuct
Warped flywheel????
Warped flywheel?That sucks.I have another clutch in the garage..I can't figure what else it would be.I'm open to all ideas.I'll talk to my friend who has a spare flywheel.
i'll bet a burned out clutch. I did that in my dads 300 i-6 van when the tranny went out and I only had 3rd gear. 3rd gear was suited for freeway and 4th was pretty much for down hill or 70+ mph.
It shuddered lick when you throw a tire while driving off road.
How do you warp a flywheel?
Didn't know that could be done.
my first thoughts after reading your post was you blew off a vac line somewhere.
If the clutch feels the same, you prob didnt blow it apart ,, and likely didnt warp the flywheel. They are kinda small but it takes some good hot temps to warp em.
next, check intake gaskets. You might have to troubleshoot a little more than you want. Do a compression test to.
Looking at your specs, i hope carma didnt come down on you since the recent topics of PTV clearances. thats why i said to do a compression test as unlikely as it is, not checking is worse than not knowing. the option that you floated a valve isnt out until you do check, either that or cracked compression ring.
Warping a flywheel is very easy actually.
If you overheat it, it's just like a big brake rotor,the surface will no longer be flat and will cause chattering,depending on how bad possible vibration issues may arise as well.
The car doesn't have any "chattering".I did clay the engine before the E303 went in.The tranny seems to go into gear fine,but when I went into second,the rpms climbed,the car was moving,but not as fast as the rpms were climbing.Maybe I glazed the clutch. this sucks.
If the clutch is holding OK, forget it...
Now if you over revved it and "floated" the valves, I'd suspect one or more being bent... Run a compression check...
I think I over revved it.As far as the clutch,I'm unsure.As I stated above,when I'm giving the car gas,the power just isn't getting to the road.The rpms on the tach climb,but the car seems sluggish.I may be pulling heads on my days off.I hope not,but I may be.
if you arent getting the power to road across a wide band of rpm,, sure sign of one thing in common.
dont write off the clutch cause that just might be it,, but now you should do a compression test.
you dont have to pull the tranny to swap the clutch,, just install two super long bolts in the top of the bell,, remove the rest of the bolts , d/s ect. slide it back on the two bolts while the ass end rests on the cross memeber.
Nice idea for the tranny.I'm unsure of the clutch.I'm leaving all options open.I'm going to try to hook up with a friend who has a compression tester and see what I can see.Come to think of it,a few of the push rods spun rather easily even after the rockers were re-snugged.BUT,would bent pushrod spin that easy or just be loose?
well then you just might be in luck to "one" of the things in common. you just pushed the lifters too far but not far enough to shoot pushrod arrows through the hood. buy your own compression tester , my advance one is good enough and they will take it back when it fails for life.
stop the worries, do some tests, then get your thoughts straight. Its just an engine with a little trouble.
You should be able to see a bent pushrod,spinning it in its hole.
Autozone clutch wont take a lot of abuse.Like said do a compression check,it will rule out a few things,or confirm them.
Also take all the spark plugs out to do it.
Will do on the compression check.The clutch in it right now isn't the Autozone clutch,it's a stage 2 that was installed with the second 5 speed.The AZ clutch is sitting on the work bench as a backup.I'll double check the pushrods (actually I didn't even check them),and just pull them out one at a time and see what I can see before I end up possibly pulling the intake and heads.I'll do the compression check first.I hope to know something soon.The engine (at idle) have a pretty good (bad) shake to it.Not cool.No clattering or loud noises,just shaking.
I JUST remembered something....when we were starting the Bird yesterday,it didn't even start like it usually does.There was plenty of power,it was as if the engine needed a little more ooooomph to get going,then,it started right up.Maybe valves..
It was a hundred degrees yesterday,and I was really hot and tired.I' think I'm having delayed memory,like remembering the details in a bad dream.
I feel for you bubba,The shake at idle says something.
run codes to you never know.
Alright,a small update.....The rubber in the balancer that holds it together is really squeezing out.I just bought a new one and will have it on in a little while.I'll let everyone know what happens after that.Stay tuned.............
Another update...I installed the new balancer (it was REALLY bad),and it made a small difference.The Sport still has what feels to be like "missing",but isn't.I think I may have a fragged valve.It's running well enough that I'll bet one,maybe two valves are affected.We're going to do a compression check tomorrow and check the timing.If the valves are bad,I'll pull whichever head they are on (or both depending on what we find(,and run the heads to the machine shop and have the affected valves replaced then re-install everything and start all over again........without messing it up this time.LOL.More news as it happens.
did you check vac?
spray carb cleaner around the intake or other vac areas?
mounts also,,,,,?
IF it has bent valves, it's a result of insufficient P to V clearance... Unless you go with notched pistons, less cam or different heads, it will happen again...
IF it has bent valves,I'll go ahead and re-assemble it,and start to gather parts for a 306.I'll start looking for a replacement block and new pistons,etc.I will be a little more careful,though.
too much speculating,,
do you want me to mail you my compression tester,, to borrow?
so here goes an idea,,,
if you do have a bent valve then you will have one or both valves not closing,, thus you will read some comression but not has high. A compression tester has a one way check valve so thats why it will hold its reading but does not tell you anything about the valve seats.
do this.......
remove valve covers
rotate each cyl to tdc with both valves closed.
stuff a vac / garden hose or the like into the plug hole.
double check that you are on tdc and the push rod rotates free
blow into the hose by mouth or by air compressor
if the piston goes down, your good.
if the piston does not go down and you hear air, it will be in transit one of 4 directions.
you will either hear air coming out your throttle body (bent intake valve)
or
you will hear air coming our your exhaust manifold (bent exhaust valve)
or
you will hear air coming out your oil dip stick hole. (busted ring or piston top)
or
you will hear air coming out your head(s) / block / intake (cracked head/block/intake)
My friend is bringing his compression tester tomorrow.Pulling the heads really isn't THAT big of a deal.We're going to give the Sport a real look tomorrow.I appreciate the tips and help.I'll post an update on this tomorrow evening.We're testing around 7:30 pm.
Did a compression check,and the number 5 cylinder had no compression.It appears that the valve is bent.I'm pulling the head tomorrow early morning and I'll know for sure.The push rods seem fine.I have the upper intake and left valve cover off.It shouldn't take more than 15 or 20 minutes to pull the head.I'm getting up early and getting the Mobil 1 oil and antifreeze for the car,then,at 8:00,off to Autozone for gaskets.The owner of the machine shop sad he can have the head done in short order for me.COOOOOOL !!!!Anyway,I'll try to grab a few pics and pass on the info as it happens.
thats progress,,,,,,,,,,
You really aught to put air in the cyl to determin whats wrong and plan out parts for the fix.
undo #5 rockers all the way and let em flop to the side,, dont worry about TDC or anything.
shove air into the cyl, if you have air coming out the throttle body or exhaust, its a valve.
If you hear air coming out the dip stick or any vac fitting, its a compression ring(best case)
if your piston shoves down, there isnt a problem,, (but obviously there is on number 5.)
Zero compression is a very bad sign man. Even with a cracked compression ring, you would get 50 to 100 psi. Something is so jacked up that the one way check valve in the compression tester cant even capture 10psi. That tells me you may be looking into a piston hole soon. I hope the damage is small and its just a valve. Hope the valve guide is not burred / dinged. Even if it is, you could probably live with a tiny bit of damage on the end of the guide.
oh,, btw,,
check into the thicker headgaskets like i used on my engine,, keeping in mind your raising the profile of your heads a tiny bit and its only noticeable when you sit the intake down and wonder where all that slack came from cause your intake seems to have play side to side. I just laid the silicone a little thicker and made my own rear and front intake gaskets.
Tom once told me about copper gaskets that serve you well for a reuseable application and i think he said they are thick as well. You will gain in PTV area doing this.
So, your running e7 heads, flat tops. e303 cam and 1.6 rockers? Is there some sort of error in this combo?
The way i see it, we should never be hitting our pistons, these 5.0's should not ever be interference engines.
I'm going out in a few minutes to pull the head.I think a bent valve isn't seating.I'll know in about 30 minutes.Regular reports as things happen.Hopefully the rings will be alright.I'm about to find out.
Yeah I think I would just toss the HO cam back in at this point. Start looking for a decent explorer longblock and put your e-cam in that with the gt-40p's.
They are with his combo when spinning one to valve float... Thats why the reliefs are there on E7 headed engines, gives space for the valve when they "hang" open...
With the lifter "pumped up", figure in another .100/.150 lift over the rated specs(or in his case close to .600/.650)...Vinnie, to hopefully keep this from happening again, you can shim the rockers to minimum lifter preload... Unless the springs are weak, this should help...
I know he did shim them originaly,It was the only way to get it to run right.
Then they were too tight, or at less than minimum clearance... Needs to shim to max clearance(slightly less than noisy)or maybe use shorter push rods...
I need to get some really thin shims.I may have some.I'll be checking before I install the head (hopefully tomorrow).
I pulled the intake and driver side head early this morning and dropped the head off at the machine shop in the next town over.Great guy.He said it should be ready tomorrow.One of the valves on the number 5 must be bent.I looked through the exhaust port and could see light around the valve.That's why it wouldn't hold any compression (ya think?LOL.).The car still ran pretty good.It reminded me of when I had a rocker bolt back out a long time ago and that valve wasn't opening.Felt like a miss or something.Anyway,I could also see where the valve hit the piston.There's a tiny little "puppies" there.Very small.While I'm re-assembling the engine,I'll go ahead and install my shims if I can find them (order some if I can't),and my new Good Year high pressure heater,radiator and bypass hoses.Those will be nice to have.The head gasket looked good when i pulled it as well.The strut tower brace I installed last week made removing the intake and head interesting,but it was workable.The brace was too much of a bear to install,so it was not coming back off.LOL.
Take a pic of the top of your pistons,Show what flat tops look like.
Sounds serious....:rollin: :burnout:
he somehow shrunk his pistons!
I edited and corrected that.I meant "VALVE",not "piston".LOL.I stand corrected.
Oh,Kitz,I'll snap a pic and post it in the morning.The piston is flat....FLAT.
I did take a pic of the piston before my batteries went bad.I'll post it when I get new batteries for the camera.
I got the head back from the machine shop around 1:00 today.I re-assembled everything,installed the new Good Year hoses and new distributor cap and rotor,and new plugs as well (I figured now is the time).I also poured in 5 quarts of Mobil 1 and filled the radiator half full before I quit for the evening.All I need to do is top off the radiator and connect the battery cables (I hate having to reprogram my stereo,I can never remember how to set the clock).Tomorrow I'll start the Sport and see what happens.
cool man you work fast. I'm surprised you didn't get a longblock with all your yard connections. I think I would have done that and saved the $$ from getting the E7's fixed.
E7's and machine shop don't really go together, just my :2c:
I did that one of miney times in my mustang I had and once it was the clutch I raged on it to harded one day and next day the RPMs would flex from like idle to redline aduring shiffting and it was the y clutch and it had like less tha 60k on it.
The cost was only $30.00 at the machine shop.Not too bad for a valve replacemnt,check the surfaces,and clean it all up.....in one day.I'll probably be looking for another 5.0 soon and working up a 306 over a period of time as money allows.The engine has been fine for months with the E303 and those flat tops.It was my fault for over revving.Lessons learned.It was relatively painless,just time consuming.Everything is back together except the PCV valve,brake booster vacuum,and water in the radiator.Oh,and I need to detail the engine.Lots of polished aluminum under the hood looking pretty poorly right now.
Wow only $30, thats not bad at all. I thought you would be in the $150- $200 range. Around here nobody want to do anything for less than that. Good deal :)
It's good to know people,and if you don't know them,get to know them.They did my heads months ago with porting and a 3 angle valve job,and installed my springs for $100.00.Not too bad I don't think (although I have nothing to compare it to).My costs for this whole ordeal were as follows (some items weren't "needed",but changed anyway)......
-Valve work--$30.00
-Head gasket--$14.99 (FelPro)
-Intake gaskets (lower)--$9.99 (FelPro)
-Oil (Mobil 1)--$14.99 for a 5 quart jug at Wal-Mart
-Oil filter (Mobil 1)--$8.99
-Antifreeze -- Already had a jug of it
-Spark plugs --New ones in the work bench already
-Distributor cap (Accel)--$14.99 with rotor
-A set of new Good Year "High Miler" blue hoses--$18.00 plus shipping (Ebay)
-Permatex--Lots of that and a ton of misc adhesives in the 4th drawer of the toolbox.
--New clamps (I bought them by the box of 10,30 clamps altogether)--$7.49 for all of them.It's cheaper than buying them in the little packages.Now I have an abundance of clamps I may never use.LOL.From Autozone's commercial dept.
The plugs,hoses,and distributor car were just "want to" items.I figured I may as well while everything is torn apart.There it is.Tomorrow I'll report on the Sport's condition.She should be back in business.
I took the Sport for a test drive,and all seems to have gone well.I didn't get too crazy.I'll give the car a day or so before I have some real fun(My blue Thunderbird NEVER liked to be modified.It fought all the way,giving me a paranoid complex.LOL).
Glad to hear everythings better
Now lets finish that bodywork. LOL
good job,, all us were wating on some porn shots of the damage,, still nothing:flip:
its nice you have a hook up in the machine shop,, wish i did.
I have a pic of the piston.The valve didn't hardly show any damage until he put it in the machine and spun it.Man,that thing was truly bent.I have a tiny eyebrow on the piston.Merely a flesh wound.LOL.I'll be posting that along with a really cool pic of my new center caps for my wheels.The only set in existence.....seriously.Just for my Sport (and the matching spare.).
Bodywork is after I install my steering rack.Then,install the fenders and doors and OFF TO PAINT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
$120 for a good set of valve springs would probably have been money very well spent. I have a set of Crane springs in my iron GT-40's...float isn't till 6400.
Very true.For now,the Sport is fine,I'll be fairly nice to the car,and when the 306 is built,it'll have new heads and springs.