this is the deal,,,,put in my 255walbro pump last saturday, evrything went fine except the gasket where the fill tube goes into the tank(gasket was toast)other than that the car ran great. Then friday she would start up run smooth for 10-15 seconds then hardley idle up/down/up/down then try to die like it wasn't getting enough fuel,but when you drove she runs fine, good pick up, nail it and she is gone until you start to come to a stop then she bucks and wants to die.
Checked fuel pressure (40with vac off),tps (98.8),cleaned iac even tried another one,timing (16*where its always been) reset idle and eec, still nothing. So i ran codes and come up with #33 and #94.
Got any suggestions???????????
Thanks, Joe
anyone got any ideas??
Egr sticking open??
Don't have my codes beside me,what are they???
codes were---#33, EGR not opening properly,,,#94,air diverter circuit fault
could one of these maybe be it??? and if so what is the air diverter valve?
Also, the day before this all sarted the car got kinda hot (up towards red) while i was taking my son to get his hair cut, so friday i put a new thermostat in. That evening/saturday morning is when all this started with the funky idle wanting to cut off etc,etc
thanks for any suggestions
any ideas??
Is your car still getting hot? And i would run a piece of vacuum hose to the EGR and check if it opens all the way and holds open,(check jcassidy's thread on how to test the EGR valve). I would also pull the EGR valve off and check for carbon deposits as well. Dont quore me but I thing the air diverter is the pipe going to the catalytic converter? I believe there is some kinda solenoid that switches or something. Also last but not least, try to run your car with the gas cap off, this will tell you if you are having a ventilation problem in the tank.
Oh yeah. Incorrect fuel pressure at the rail can cause all sorts of issues. Make sure your fuel pressure regulator is not malfunctioning. Check for cracks at the vacuum line going into it. Vacuum problems or open lines anywhere on the engine can cause idiling issues.
thanks for the reply,,
#1--car is not running hot anymore
#2--I will try the EGR vacuum and check for deposits and such
#3--the fuel at the rail is reading 40lbs (vac off ) wasn't touched after i had put the pump in. IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY TO CHECK THE PRESSURE????,
also if i get the rpm's above say 1100 it will run fine, i can rap it up and so forth while it is still cold, when it starts to get warmit is harder to keep running.
Do you think the ACT sensor or the ECT sensor could be causing these symptoms? or would there be a code for these if they were bad?cause the only codes i got were the #33-(KOER)and the #94 (KOER) no codes for KOEO except #11.
I haven't messed with it for a couple days but turned the key yesterday and she fired right up, ran fine (high idle-1400) for about 15-20seconds then went down to 600 or so but ran like it was only running on a few cylinders(or not enough fuel) but once i gave it some gas she would rap right up smooth.
Thanks again for reply's
Ok,, tried the EGR vacuum----held vacuum
took EGR off and cleaned (wasn't bad)
took gas cap off ----no change
new fuel filter----no change
for some reason i think it is fuel related, but once she starts to get warm it's like she can't get enough fuel, even when i try to rap it up a little.
also she will run(rough) for a little while when cold but once she starts to get a little warm she will die, fire her back up and she will die!!
I am STUMPED!!!
Thanks again for replys
Ok well I hate to throw suggestions out to you and have you spend a lot of $ on hunches and the sort but, It sounds as if the EGR system is malfunctioning in some way. Now that you determined that the EGR valve is good, you have to determine if the solenoid and vacuum line that run the EGR is operating properly and you have no vacuum leaks, that sounds like the culprit here, especially the idling issue. Now the diverter valve I believe may be on the same circuit as well, so a vacuum leak in that general area could be it. THere are 2 solenoids next to eachother, thay look like salt and pepper shakers. Look at the vacuum connectors coming out the back, are they cracked, the best way to determine this is start the car, let it idle (the best it's goona do anyway), spray soapy water all over the vacuum and the solenoid areas, see if the idle comes back up. Your codes are telling me that this area is where to start looking. Hope this helps, good luck!
BTW, yes 40lbs sounds good, rap the engine in park, watch the guage as well, ECT AND ACT will both cause your car to act strange too (many Tbird SC's in my past). But yes the 5.0 needs ECT to detemine proper timing and ACT to determine A/F mgmt. But if your car's not throwing those codes, doubt it's an issue.
Thank you for the input, I will check these areas you've mentioned this evening,,,,,,I had my wife start my car while I watched fuel pressure, started at 40 then after a couple seconds the car started acting up and the pressure went up to like 45. Just for the hell of it I checked my plugs and the were BLACK as BLACK could be,,,,,,,they always ran CLEAN. so I put some old but good ones in just to see if there would be a change,,,Nothing!!
A friend of my brother-in-laws said to check my TFI module so I will check that also this evening with an old but known good one.The reason i asked about the ECT/ACT is because this all started after my car got hot(close to red) the day before,,thought maybe they coud have gotten fudged up because of the heat??
Any other suggestions PLEASE, PLEASE throw them my way...........
Thanks
Well ECT would cause more of the issues than the ACT, ACT is Air Change Temp, It looks for changes in the incoming air through the intage to adjust proper air fuel curb. ECT looks at the engine coolant to do the same thing. These normaly wont send a code unless checks bad or out of range. If no codes to these two, they are in range enough to not cause the issue your having. Im thinking vacuum related, TFI possibly, or bad FPR fuel pressure reg. But than again if you have a massive vacuum leak, it can throw off the FPR and the solenoids for the EGR and the diverter unit as well.
First off,Thank you for replying again, I appreciate the help and suggestions that you have given so far
,,,,,,,,,,,Just put in a old but good TFI--NO CHANGE!!!!!,,,,also i have been doing some searching on here about fuel pressure and i have noticed that as soon as i turn my car off(like it stays running for a long time)my fuel pressure gauge drops within a few seconds?? never checked/or noticed this before,,,,shouldn't the gauge keep it's pressure for a while longer than that? I have a new ACT sensor that i never put in since the HO conversion so i was thinking about puting it in just to check!! The ECT sensors are what?-$20.00, I just don't want to spend money that i don"t need to spend.
I am so thinking that is fuel related somehow!! I can keep it running by feathering the gas and keeping the RPM's up. I have/had my old regulator but i have not been able to find it yet(just seen it the other day). For tomorrow i am going to try some soapy water?/wd40?/fuel inj.cleaner to see if i can find some kind of vacuum leak and maybe chande the ACT sensor. I got two young(5 & 12) kids that i need to try and keep busy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so it's kinda hard sometimes for me to just go at it.
I thank you again for trying to help me with my situation, I got to try to get this thing going by the end of the month for inspection, PLEASE stick with me.
Thanks, Joe
Cool, good luck to ya, and yes soapy water is the trick. When you test this theory make sure you spray around the intake manifiold gasket and throttle body gasket too. Oh yeah, when you have a chance (im assuming this car has a MAF sensor if this is the one with the H.O conversion)? If so, make sure no cracks devoped between the Mass air and the throttle body's rubber duct. Ive seen this be an issue too.
Oh yeah, that fuel pressure thing, sure wish I could help you there but im not sure if it should drop off like that quick after the engine shuts off. You said that the car started to act up right after you installed the new walbro pump.. In my experience, I have had issues with fuel pressures before too. But what I have seen is the rubber line rupture that goes between the pump and the pickup line in the tank. This caused the car to surge, blow massive black smoke, bog down die and not even have the umph to move. I always thought that the fuel line should hold pressure even when the engine is shut off until you press the relief valve on the pressure guage. I remember doing pressure checks on a Chevy Celebrity with EFI once, it ran like , kinda like the symptom you have but it actually turned out to be a grounding issue. Wierd.
sorry,,, been laying low off the board,, missed this interesting thread.
as much as it hurts me to say this,, pull the fuel rail off while still connected to the fuel lines.
Cycle your key on ,,,off,,,,wait,,,,,,,,,,,,on,,,off.....wait,,,,,,,,
(ie- prime the fuel injectors.)
now get out of the car and see if one of your injectors is dripping with fuel with the key off.
ie- injector is stuck.
I have a write up on the injector filter delete,, also you can cycle each injector with any decent 12v power source and listen to the click. if it aint clicking, the ball valve isnt opening, nor closing.
might explain the rich condition by way of adding a high vol fuel pump in behind old orings.
This however does not explain why all the plugs were rich looking.
to answer your other question,,,,,, duct tape your fuel pres tester to the windshield and drive while watching the guage. see what the presure is in between gears.
also,, disconnect your fuel feed line to the fuel rail and rig up a hose to the end of it.
ground out your tan light green wire at the eec self test connector.
turn key on
observe how big of a mess you just made with the fuel presure out of control because you forgot to add a bucket under the hose,,lol
as for the tps,, go back and correct that before someone in the intraweb finds your ref to 98volts,,lol. (unless you meant centi volts,,lol)
the green wire should have .6-.9vdc with the key on only and should increase in voltage ***WITH NO OPENS**** in the following range of .6-4.7vdc. You have to check this with a digi meter very very slowly but an buttstuffoge meter is best suited for checking variable resistors.
dont forget to check the random things to like the things your not thinking of now.
ie- blueish to white spark
vac presure
compression numbers
smell or look of gas in the oil
smell or look of oil in the coolant
ect ect,, the basics.
This is bassakwards. The engine should turn off immediately and the fuel pressure stay up for a long time..
Put a meter on the red/light green wire on the coil. The 12v should drop when you turn the ignition off. This same wire also goes to the TFI and the EEC to let them know the ignition is off.
It sounds like you are running until the EEC power relay drops. This relay drops about five seconds after the ignition is turned off.
freahaftr8-- actually it didn't start acting up until the day after it ran hot, it was running fine with the new pump up till that day! it was kinda funny yesterday, i hooked the code reader up and she went through the cycles then she sat there and purred untill i turned the reader off then she died, started her back up and she died???????????? I am just wondering if something (sensors?) maybe got fudged up from it running hot that day??
Thanks guys,, I / we will figure this out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
New info as of last night, I reset the puter and ran codes(again)started her up, turned the reader on, went through the cycles (still code 94,33)and she sat there and purred, code reader went off and she sat there and purred so i let her sit and idle for a few minutes.
I figured while she was ideling i would keep an eye on fuel pressure and i noticed that the pressure would slowly, i mean slowly(2lbs in 5-7 min.), so i would turn it back up a little, it would go back down (slowly) so i would turn it back up again, it finally looked like it was sitting steady at 32lb's and Hell i was afraid to turn the thing off !!! she had been running for like 30 minutes.I could rap it up 3-4000 she would come right back down to 750.
I then decide to check my timing since i had to pull the dist. the other day to try a new TFI, but i marked where everything was at before i pulled it out, so anyway i pull out the spout, hook up the light and start the car, she starts right up and idles. I then proceed to check my timing and it was only at 10* so i turned it up to about 12* (i normally ran at 16*) and then she started that crazy idling shnit again so i turned it back down to 10* and she still ran shnitty and then died!! Tried to crank her up and she would start then die, start then die.
THIS THING HAS GOT ME STUMPED !!
When pressure drops, and it starts to run bad, disconnect the fuel pres reg. line and cap it, see if idle comes back..
Well guys (knock on wood) she is fixed, been running all weekend. don' t ask what i did cause i don't know !!!. Thursday eveningI took the battery cable's off and left them off till friday evening, hooked them back up and fired her up, stumble,stumble then she ran fine so i let her sit and run for 15 min. shut off then restarted---started right up and idled fine.Then I checked the timing(again), tps(again),F/P(again), gave her a bath and took her out for a little drive, drove fine. I will take her out for a longer ride this week....... Let's see what happens !!!!
Thanks guys for ALL your help !! I do appreciate it--
just hope she keeps on running??????????????????????????????????