Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

And the $5K outlay will be offset by what? 

How long will it take you to recover that cost with the improved gas mileage?
$5K will buy 1250 gallons of gas at $4/gal.

i can get everything, puls install for under $5,000.

Well I could care less what he stuffs in there, I was just trying to point out that claiming mileage is the reason for the swap is bogus as the money spent on the engine swap will net him 25K miles on an engine that gets 20mpg. 

He would have to drive that car for a LONG time for the saving from the supposed better mileage on the Supra engine will be realized. 

Even if gas prices continue to climb, unless this magicall engine gets 35-40 all the time (which it won't), it's just not cost-effective.

@OP:  Hate to burst your bubble but even a 300hp EVO motor gets just 19city 24hwy mpg....my 5.0 does better than that.

i should have clearified. its the best horsepower to gas milage ratio i could think of without getting a 4banger. they come with forged internals. plus, i just love supras!! if i could afford one, i would buy it in a heart beat! but this project, im thinking over a long period. im going to have this car till i die. but sometime along the road. all motors die. and when that happens. im going to put a big block in it, and live out my days doing wheelies.

You're never going to get good gas mileage and high horsepower.

ooo my 5.0 is just a SO motor and it gets 12.5mpg in the city.
im planning on living in the same town or one near by. i dont really drive on the freeway to much, unless going to the drags. but there is no way i could get a 500HP 5.0 and get the same gas mileage as a 500hp 3.0.

Spend the money to do an HO conversion, add a decent power-adder, and buy a economy car to travel in..

i want something that people havent seen done before.
so what your saying is, the gas milage will be the same both having 500hp or close? its also the cheapest way for me to make 500hp. to make 500hp with a stock HO is risky! but its not ricky for the 2JZ GTE. and like i said, its a long term thing. every mpg i get is one less gallon i have to pay for! im planning on having that motor for along time.

why does everybody alway rag on somebody just for being original? I say do it and i bet with the right tune up he could get better milage with the 3.0 than from a 5.0 and still make more power than the 5.0 ever will

why does everybody alway rag on somebody just for being original? I say do it and i bet with the right tune up he could get better milage with the 3.0 than from a 5.0 and still make more power than the 5.0 ever will

It won't be that cheap once you get into it - I can guarantee you that. People who generally do one of a kind swaps end up spending enough to buy a new car. To them though, it's not about the money, but the journey and the end product. These are also generally people who either have experience with fabrication or enough money to either learn from mistakes or to pay other people to do the work. I won't say that a 5.0/5.8 that can reliably handle over 400hp won't be dirt cheap though as you get to the point of the stock block cracking, then it moves to the crank and rods, transmission, etc. I could see the 500-600hp mark costing a bit over $5k to get running while still retaining drivability on the street. It depends on what deals you can source out.

This gets me to the next point - normally  higher horsepower applications are not the most enjoyable on the street. Plan carefully as smaller motors with more power will let you down, especially when in a larger vehicle.

Lastly, okay, you swap out the engine, install the proper wiring, and the computer for another engine. Now what do you do about all the other parts of the car that rely on input from the stock equipment? Now you're modifying the body electrical of the car and other parts. What are you going to do about instrument cluster? Hack one together from a car that people don't seem to want to part out? I'm not sure how much different the vacuum controlled parts would perform, but you have everything from hvac to brakes that have to be thought through. Creativity is good but so is a thorough understanding of what you get into.

i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

...must...stop....feeding....troll...must....resist....
...not...strong...enough...

*succumbs*

I call B.S.  You show me where you can get a reliable 500hp supra motor with tranny for $3000 and I'll eat crow.  (I'm not talking any 5 finger dealers either..)

way to answer my question RED SPAR!! i would have to spend ATLEAST $8000-$10,000 to get a proprely built 500hp 5.0, and a new tranny, and a new wiring harness, and a new ECU!!! where as i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

way to answer my question RED SPAR!! i would have to spend ATLEAST $8000-$10,000 to get a proprely built 500hp 5.0, and a new tranny, and a new wiring harness, and a new ECU!!! where as i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

Toyota Ftmfw!!!!one

Man, some great advice from some guys who obviously have worked on some 5.0's before.  If I was this kid, which I am thankful I'm not, but nonetheless, I would get an 88-up 5.0HO, I would rebuild the short block, insert a cam, top off some AFR's, and have fun from there.  I don't think he realizes how "un-friendly" 500HP from a small Supra motor is going to be on the street and how fun the above mentioned 5.0HO would truly be in his car.  But oh well, kids need to learn from their mistakes.

and i dont think he knows what all will be involved in doing a transplant like that, either.

A toyota won't go blub, blub, blub, blub, (stomp)BWAAAAAAAAAAA.

It will go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, (stomp)wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Who wants that?

I'm surprised that no one has even brought up the fact that 500 horsepower is going to be way too much for this guy. I've driven some 500+ horsepower cars, and they are downright scary at times. Traction only becomes a myth with that power and street tires.

I wasn't even making 300 horsepower in my previous TC, and I was outrunning so many different cars, including 5.0 cars, LT1 cars, Saleen S281, and other cars that were claimed to be fast.

Horsepower is a number, not something that determines how big your dick is and how fast your car is.

If you want the 2JZ, go ahead and do the 2JZ, but you will get a big sticker shock when you go to buy aftermarket parts for it. Sure you get a stout engine block, and a power plant with a lot of potential, but once you're past the bolt on stages, you're going to spend A LOT of money.

I'm surprised that no one has even brought up the fact that 500 horsepower is going to be way too much for this guy. I've driven some 500+ horsepower cars, and they are downright scary at times. Traction only becomes a myth with that power and street tires.

I wasn't even making 300 horsepower in my previous TC, and I was outrunning so many different cars, including 5.0 cars, LT1 cars, Saleen S281, and other cars that were claimed to be fast.

Horsepower is a number, not something that determines how big your dick is and how fast your car is.

I am all for alternative powerplant/drivetrain combinations in these cars. It opens up worlds of possibilities. Considering the Fox engine bay is almost perfectly sized for a majority of swaps, the consideration to try another engine and possibly even gain fuel economy is both responsible and commendable.

In this case, though, there are no immediate benefits in doing such a swap. The fuel economy won't be that much better than the current tuned-up engine. The cost to upgrade the entire vehicle to accept the new driveline wouldn't be recouped for many years, if ever. And I have a feeling that, if this engine is anything remotely like the 140cid turbo-4 used in these cars originally, there might be more time spent fixing things under the hood than driving on the street. And wasn't the the intent in the first place--to daily drive the car?

It's always fun to play with someone else's money. For that, I can see how visions of horsepower would pop into one's head. But this is a project that's best left to a second play toy...and with considerably more experience.

FWIW, the HO conversion would probably get the best bang for the buck. Roughly 210-220hp and slightly better fuel economy, as the HO cam was really ground for smoothness and economy and not so much raw power. It's a good blend, and considering the relative cost of the parts, and the fact that it could be done in a weekend...that makes for a fairly surprising daily driver that's fun to drive and, if you keep your foot out of it, not so bad at the gas pump.

  Dammit, what else can I do?  Oh I know, I'll buy this rare stamp and send a picture to the Fox Forum.

"What happened to the original poster?"

I think nap time was over and he had to go back and watch cartoons.....

His last forum activity was on the 14th...

I think the torches and pitchforks can go back in the shed for now.

Carroll Shelby, no stranger to speed, has expressed concern. As a race driver, he won the 24-hour race at Le Mans, France, and a national driving championship. His Shelby Automobiles Company added muscle to Ford cars in the late 1960's and now produces higher-performance versions of some Chrysler models.

Mr. Shelby argues that most drivers are incapable of handling cars with 400 horsepower. (None of his approach that figure). He said:

''You get a bunch of 18-year-old kids out in those things, and they're a menace. And if you get the insurance people and the Government bureaucrats riled up, they'll shut the whole performance industry down the way they did before. I'm scared we're going to commit suicide again.''

The point of the ZR-1, Mr. Stempel said, is to demonstrate that G.M. can produce a very fast car while still meeting all emission and fuel economy rules - a feat that has eluded foreign manufacturers.

But Joseph White, writing in the Wall Street Journal, dug a bit deeper in the EPA’s report to find a few startling figures:

Compared with 1987, the average weight of the vehicle we drive has risen by 923 pounds, or 29%. The average time it takes for a vehicle to go from zero to 60 miles per hour time has dropped to 9.6 seconds--the fastest since the EPA started compiling this data in 1975. Our average car or truck has 223 horsepower, and the most horsepower per pound on record.

...If 2007 cars were as light on average as 1981 cars, our national average car fuel economy (according to the unadjusted EPA lab figures) would be 13% better than current reality. If 2007 model trucks were the same weight as the average for 1981, their fuel efficiency rating would be 35% better.

There's alot of truth in that post Paul, especially the quote from Shelby.  Most drivers, especially someone the OP's age, have no need for a car with that much power.  I kind of question his dad's thought process too for thinking it's reasonable to help his kids put together (or try and put together) cars with this kind of power to drive on the street. 
Sorry, but any kid of mine will NEVER have a car available to them like that to drive, period.

Actually a engine capable of 500hp can get as good as mileage as a 200hp one... Trick is to never tromp the throttle and produce more than 200hp... Wonder what odds in Vegas would be on such a deal???

When I sprayed my Bird with the 150hp shot of nitrous and produced somewhere near 500hp, it was absolutely wild... Even a 85 shot and a bit over 425Hp, it was all the Nitto Drag Radials could handle... Normal street tires were useless...