Morning guys,
question is,,,what kind of power increase could i see with a set of AFR 165's.
might have a chance to get a good used set for a good price. mods are in my sig.
Thanks
I'm guessing about 30-40 hp.I have them on mine,big difference from the E-7's.they would like a little better cam though.
I think they would make alot more than that.
Take a stock HO and run it at the track in one of our cars. Now slap on AFR 165/trickflow/edelbrock heads, tfs-1 cam, cobra intake and than run it.
I think you could drop a whole second in the 1/4
If you have stock E7s at least 40 HP --- with a better cam, more likely 50-60...
I don't care if you guys do have a woody on for the E7s vs E6s, they both suck...
EDIT... LOL I see Bob is thinkin' like me...
My figures are through a full exhaust system, running open headers would net another 20Hp... But not many street guys can do so...
That's also if you don't mind revving to the moon...AFR's run real nice above 5000...throw some 4.30's and a convertor behind it...or just go 5-speed....if you plan on letting your AOD tell you when to shift(at 4700) then buying any set of heads would be a pretty big waste.
...and there's my :2c:
-Don
That's funny....mine shifts @ 6000 :rolleyes:
It's easy to get an AOD to shift higher you know...
It's NOT necessary to rev the AFR 165s to the moon... I believe IF you bother to check they(and the other aftermarket street heads), give a significant increase in hp from approx 2200 RPMs up...
I have to agree with that,there not 225's where the rpm's would make alot more.Like I said,I run 165's there a good head,good power through the whole rpm range.You may want to change cams if your going that route.Also you may be heading into bigger injector range,other guys here may argue that though.
You might want to check the springs on them to,the older heads were not that good if they weren't updated.what cc are they and what rocker style do they take?
I'm thinking he told me 61cc??(would that be good) and they are pedestal mount. they only have like 6000 miles on them. also,,would i have any ptv clearance issues?
thanks for all replys
Are these going on your stock 88 tbird shortblock? What cam and intake are you going to run?
stock 88 block, all other mods are below
What magazine was it that put on a set of AFR185s on a Cobra engine and added 60hp? They did move the cam to add more top end power.
If you have an HO, you're probably down 30hp from the Cobra because of the heads. Go to the 165s and add probably 60-70hp, I'd say. Maybe more.
Those heads have a 1.94 intake valve don't they? If so they'll smashey-smashey with the stock T-bird flat top pistons.
Do you think they will still hit if i went to 1.6 rollers? if so i guess i won't be getting them. just looking for a good out the box style head to give me a little more ooomph for a strickly street driven car while keeping good low end grunt
Thanks for replys, Joe
No doubt they are a great upgrade from an E7, hands down! PV clearance needs to be checked.
So at worst case you purchase them and there is a clearance issue. You have two options (well, three if you sell the heads...).
1. Have a custom cam made. It's all in the cam timing (not lift) which creates PV problems. A good cam grinder can take that into account and get you set. Cost is on the range of about $300+ (kind of kills the good deal on the heads though).
2. Cut reliefs in the pistons. It is possible to do it with the short block in the car. Isky rents cutters. I can walk you through the steps if it were to become an issue (I even have a portion of an old head I have used as jig I could loan you). It's bit of a pain to do.
Twisted Wedge heads have fewer PV issues due to the slightly different angles of the valves (even though they have larger 2.02 intake valve). Maybe look for a good deal on them? Still a great OTB head, head & shoulders above E7's.
Good luck on your decision.
Since I've been running a set of TWs and Stage1 cam since '99, I'll X2 that one... And yes my pistons are flat tops, shortblock is a '86 HO, which used the E6s...
I'm not knocking the aftermarket heads...in fact, I think that AFR is probably one of the best...but just don't expect to make peak power before 5000rpm...too much RPM is a good killer of a stock 5.0 short block...I know from experience...I prefer not reving 5.0's past 5500, if it wasn't my DD, I would have a different view.
And yes, I know you can get hi-rev governors for the AOD...that's why I said "if he lets his AOD decide when to shift".
It's an obvious fact that on an n/a combo, you have two options for increasing power...more displacement...or more RPM.
I've heard from alot of Mark 7 and Mustang guys you can get an automatic 60HP at the crank from some emissions legal AFR's. The big thing is torque!!!! I've heard they really add some torque to your 5.0HO which is what you want from a street engine.
I see alot of comments about mods being done due to incompatibility. I've heard AFR's are completely bolt on for most 5.0HO's.
Statement #1 was interpreted to mean they are total dogs below 5K. Not what you meant apparently, but it
WAS what was conveyed...
Statement #2 I know plenty of guys who run 6K+ on stock blocks. The 5 speed rev-limiter in the H.O. EEC-IV is 6250. I'm sure tons of people have pushed that limit on a stock block and internals without fail for many miles. I've been pushin 6K for well over a year without issue.
Run the AFR's/Twisted Wedges with a custom cam or an off the shelf one with a decent amount of lift and as wide an LSA as possible. This will broaden your torque curve and bring the peak HP RPM down some. Something with advance built into the design may help as well.
I never implied that AFR's are dogs below 5k...if that's what people took from it then they're reading too far into it...AOD HO computers are limited at 6250 as well...I know stock blocks CAN go past 6k and live, but it's not going to live forever, that's all. Like I said, if I didn't have to rely on my car for daily driving, I would have a different view of things.
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid from my last crank failure...lol. Once bitten...FOREVER shy...I guess if you don't have 300k miles on your shortblock, you'd be okay.
-Don
They
ALL gotta go sometime....Turn up the wick to 6K on a forged crank and laugh:evilgrin:
Or even a decent aftermarket cast crank...anything but a fatigued 300k mile stock crank...lmao...still can't believe that it ran it's best just before it went boom.
They ALWAYS do...
A buddy broke his well used 5.0 crank after spraying it for a couple years, then running over 1600 1/8 mi passes... This wasn't no slouch either... His '88 Tbird 308 regularly ran 8.0 passes @ 87mph(no juice)... Now runs a DSS 331 and car runs low/mid 7.2s... Motor has out of the box Trick Flow heads(does have bee hive springs)... Not sure of the cam but way bigger than the Stage -2 TF he ran in the 5.0...
so do you think i will be able to run the 165's with 1.6 rollers on my flat tops(no reliefs)?? or would the trick flows be just as torquey down low for an all street driven car?
Thanks Guys
Here's my broken 170k mile crank from 2006. This is why I went with a forged stroker kit this time around ;) , hearing that sound of the crank snapping and the engine coming to apart was very bad. It was like someone through a tool box out of a window full of tools.
At 170K? Wow. I've seen 5.0 HOs with 200K and they're fine. I guess it's all in how you drive, or who cast the crank that day ;)
that broken crank pic reminds me of when I rode over my broken connecting rods and chunks of pistons on my Triumph Bonneville in my cycle days,OUCH