Anyone got any pics of the roof skin around a sunroof on an 87-88 Bird? Does it have a serious and re-inforcing or just a cutout?
I may have found a body within an hour or so from me, but it has a sunroof. May be time to learn the fine art of English wheeling and make a patch....
But this is something I've never done or seen done....
But I love a challenge....
It's real difficult to patch a roof, and never see it. most Pros would never touch that.
The only way to fix it and never see it, is replacing the whole roof skin.
Remember there's a lot of flex and no body lines for reinforcement on a roof. just 1 huge sheet of metal
The only way I could see getting away with it is, find another roof section to get your patch from and mabe bond it with adhesive using backing strips. You'll still have to do a lot of filling when your done though. and you can usually see a bond line after a few years. and you'll probably still see the patch when the sun hits it
Whats wrong with a sunroof?
My helmet hits it.
I had a 87 T-Bird that I ran endures here on long island years ago and I just took a piece of sheet metal and riveted it on at the time. My track rules stated it had to be taken out and covered w/metal
LOL
I didn't see that one coming.
Is it for drag, show, or both
Roadrace.
Although I might take it to some cruise nights, and it needs to be somewhat streetable.
I have a slightly detuned Nextel Cup motor in my garage and a 5speed for it.
The roof structure is different between sunroof and non-sunroof cars. Non-sunroof cars have a series of "ribs" supporting the structure, including one that goes right across where the sunroof would be (which is why aftermarket sunroofs in these cars are a bad idea - they have to cut one of the "ribs"). I would imagine the moonroof cars have the same ribs, but in different locations to allow for the opening.
You'd be better off replacing the entire roof. I believe gunkel04 did so with his gunmetal grey T-Bird (only it was for the opposite - he installed a moonroof-equipped roof)
You can do what Innes did, you make a panel to fit the of the
sunroof. weld the panel to some tubing or whatever will make the panel flush with the roof. Also make it almost the exact size so you can seam seal it and it should still look like a sunroof but not be one.
You can also paint it gray or black as if it was a tinted window.
That would be the best way to fill the space without warping and filling and repainting the roof.
If your real fancy about it. you could make it in a way that you could take it out if you wanted. and use weatherstripping to seal it. or lock it and hinge it in as a steel roof vent that will still open.
There I go making it a project. LOL
I wondered about any ribbing/structure underneath.
I have been looking for 5 years for a 87-88 T-bird around the Atlanta area. Even the JYs don't seem to have them, just parts and the bodies get crushed. So no roofs to be found to replace this one. I'm not sure I will go look at this one, haven't heard a price, but I wanted to know more about the structure. Since the car would get a full cage, i'm not worried about strength, but I would want the paint to be nice and not see the welded-in patch.
I'll have to think about this more, maybe go see the car.
Here's the tear apart view of a sunroof, there's a bit of a cross-section view there
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/img011-1.jpg)
I couldn't find a cross section of the roof with a sunroof
here's a Mark with a moon roof. the roof braces may be like this
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/img015.jpg)
Thanks, that helps a lot to see what I am up against.
......
I think its do-able
The sun roof cars have a dropped bracing and headliner for the window clearance and yes there is a serious around the inside of the opening... Also there is a water drain pan and hoses that reduces the head room... Only way you'll gain the clearance is some serious hacking or repl the roof... Being tall in the body, my head hits in a sun roof car unless I have the seat fully lowered in the back... Just barely have room for my helmet in my non SR TC...
OK Ford calls them Moon Roofs, no matter the last thing I want on my Bird is a hole in the roof... Followed by ETAC and leather,
luckily in '97 Birds in general were fairly easy to find...
EDIT...Those diagrams are for a flip up roof.... The electric sliding "Moon Roof" is a whole different animal... Those were first avail in late '86...
Either way, I would want to hack the off and patch-in a sheet-steel skin. I'm tall waisted too, and had to make a custom mount for my racing seat to get it low enough for my helmet to clear without any sunroof.
So I either keep looking or have more stuff to prep. My gut instinct is to run, but I want to get a car built. But that is a huge patch to weld and not have the roof warp, plus trying to 'wheel the right compound curves into the patch.....
I'm buttstuff enough to know I wouldn't be happy unless it's right, so....
i have seen cars with sheets of CF bonded to the skin. looked ok, but they didnt have huge roof structure eatin up headroom like the tbird.
if you want it to look perfect, like it never had a sunroof.....get one w/o. the last chop top i did we sectioned the roof itself, and even using a TIG and hammering all the welds, it still took more filler than i liked to get it flat again.
if you cant find a complete skin, skip it, no matter how badly you want to start buildin. you just wont be happy with the results otherwise.
yes, yes, and yes.
BTW where are you located? Atlanta
I agree, I'll pass on this car. Bad thing is it was a Sport, and owner is going to pull motor and put in a truck. Oh well.
I found another while we have been discussing this. White 87, but it has a TC hood, can't tell about header or if it was really a TC. Bad CraigsList pics... Has been hacked a bit to become a drag car, but body seems OK so far.
What do you guys think a roller is worth? Or a bare body? Rolling would be easier to deal with for now, but all I can use will be the body panels. I'm thinking $300-$500.
Oh, NO SUNROOF!
I'm actually N.E. of Atlanta in Gainesville.
If it's not a TC, I'd cringe at the thought of spending more than $300...
I sold a base Bird roller two years ago for $600... BUT it had a good set of tires on turbines, a 3.55 TC rear and TC brakes up front... Also had a Sport cluster and a full set of TC seats, needed painting but was 100% rust free... Was perfect start for a nice street Bird...
This one is on CL, anyone can look. It has a trashed red/maroon interior, rough snowflakes with no center caps, a TC hood, but he claims it always had a V8. Not sure if it was a Sport, but it does have remnants of the full console. He claims it has an 8.8 rear.
Having it roll would make it easier to load on a borrowed trailer, but as I said all I can use is the body, none of the suspension or rear. He wants $1800 and it is far from finished as a drag car or a streetcar.
I wish I had a way to transport one from Virginia. That would have been a good car for me too.
I feel like $300 would be fair too, but I think he has other ideas.
Well here's something to consider... I just got a personal property tax bill today for my TC...
Value??? The State of VA says it's worth $660... AND they don't charge tax on vehicles valued at less than $1000...:hick:
This T-bird is in the Atlanta area... List has some older & cheaper Fox Birds as well...
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/608299135.html
Jesus, don't say that too loud. The Nova Scotia government might hear you and start taxing cars as property here. It's bad enough we've gotta pay 13% sales tax when we buy 'em and $250 every two years for plates...
!!!
We pay 3% when we title one, plus the title is $10...
Plates are $28 PER YEAR, plus $23 to the city
Personal property is where they get us, it's just a shade over 4%... BUT we get a 58% reduction credit from the state, so in reality it's slightly less than 2%...
Then I just sent the state $2550 income tax, but I didn't pay anything in '07...
BTW the Fed refunded me $5100... :D
That $600 roller was the one I was going to buy but the auto transport company wouldn't transport a car that wasn't operational condition. That wasn't a bad thing! I got a nice TC from Tom instead for just a few hundred more. I haven't done anthing with it yet other than clean it up a bit. Needs exhaust this year though.
The plates are out on it tonight but I got a plesant supprise in the Provincial budget yesterday. $40 less per year to register the vehicle and an extra 10% off if you renew online. :) Thank God for the high price of oil. Our provincial government is cleaning up on the oil revenues. J/K about being thankful. What I'll save on the renewal I'll lose on the first fill-up.:nannerbang:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/608299135.html
I had watched that one. Needs a little work for a DD, but too nice to cut up into a racecar.