The DD stranded me twice in two days. The electrical system isn't charging, so any insight would be greatly appreciated. Here are the steps I've taken:
The alt, voltage regulator, and a fusable link were replaced about 10 months ago. On two separate occasions, I've had the battery and alt tested - each passed. I've replaced the VR twice. While the car was running and the relevant tested components installed, we checked the voltage output.
The battery tests ~12.5V at rest. With the engine running, voltage tests in the mid-11s at the battery, alt, and solenoid. At one point, I wiggled the wiring harness near the PS pump and the voltage jumped to 12.5V. I've squeezed, pulled, and wiggled the triplet of fusable links near the solenoid, no noticable change in the voltage. The factory charging wire (black w/ orange stripe) was frayed, that's been replaced by a 4 gauge cable running to the solenoid.
In desperation, I rewired for a 3G and swapped in a new alt for a 95 Mustang. We tested it after swapping pulleys. After installation, no change in the system output.
Then something else happened. I tried to turn off the car, and it kept running. Someone suggested a bad ignition switch might be causing the charging problem, so today I installed a new switch. The new switch has no effect - still discharging and the car continues to run, even with the ignition in the "off" position.
If you've made it this far, do you have any suggestions (besides taking a flamethrower to it)?
put a volt meter on the battery while the car is running and you should be getting 13+. If not, then it's a bad alt, reg, or wiring.
Tested voltage at the battery at rest and running. 12.5V at rest, ~11.5V running. I tested the original alt and the new alt, replaced and removed the VR.
That leaves the wiring, but where?
Make sure your bat. cable is good and start checking from there.
could be a broken wire in there somewhere.
That would be a starting place
Forgot to mention I checked the grounds and the cables.
Hold a hacksaw blade by one end and touch the other end to the laminated part of the alternator.
Ignition off, no magnetisim.
Ignition in run (don't start) you should feel magnetism. Voltage from the ignition switch should be on the LG/R wire to the I terminal of the voltage regulator.
Do you have an alternator idiot light? Is it on with the ignition in run?
The voltage to the I terminal of the regulator comes through the light bulb and/or the shunt resister across the bulb.
well, there is a couple other things but i gotta think about this one. car stays running after you turn it off.
Ignition switch???????
I second the question about the alt/batt light. Does it light up? with the KOEO?
The car staying running is an odd one....
When you replaced the ignition switch, did you replace the switch or the key cylinder? I know it seems a stupid question but a lot of people think they're the same thing. Also when (if) you replaced the switch, did you replace the connector and harness end? They often burn up when the switch fails.
buttstuffog gauges, no warning light. The white/black stripe wire from the alt (STA) dead ended in the wiring harness. The original VR socket and plug both had three contact points, "I" wasn't used. For the 3G conversion, I jumped the "S" to "A" point in the VR plug.
Yes, I replaced the switch, not the cylinder lock. No, it's not a stupid question. I didn't replace any wiring in the steering column. The plug to the switch didn't appear bad to casual observation.
Also, just before this key-out, engine-running senario, I noticed that a couple of the system sentry lights stayed "on" the last time I was able to turn off the engine with the key.
Ok let me see if I follow this correctly. You originally had an external voltage regulator on a car with an ammeter and no battery light.
The I input to the old regulator was unused..that is correct.
The Sta output of the old alternator was unused..that is correct.
You jumpered the S to A in the old VR socket. I have a problem with that but we will talk about that later.
The important thing is how do you have the new 3g alternator hooked up.
You have the alternator part with a B+ and S terminals.
You have the internal regulator part with A,I and S terminals.
How are they hooked up?
correct
I was using two docs
http://rothfam.com/svo/3g/
and
jcassity's 3g diagram
Mine's wired as the illustrations in the first link except -
for the plug, only the two inner points are jumpered
for the alt, I didn't connect anything to the A terminal
That writeup would have worked if you had the indicator light system as shown in the diagram.
The ammeter system is different.
Did you disconnect the old output wire and install a new 8ga wire. If so where did you run it to?
If you use the old output hookup we can fix this pretty easy and end up with a ammeter that still works.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetk5cc/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/AltExRegAmp.JPG)
If by "output wire" you mean the black w/ orange stripe wire that runs to the solenoid, it was frayed; that might have affected the voltage output fluctuation when I wiggled the harness.
I replaced the B/O wire with a 4 gauge cable and a 100A fuse. The fuse mounts to the alt, the cable runs from the fuse to the + terminal of the starter solenoid.
Two more things to consider -
1) I forgot to mention when first troubleshooting, the two small gauge wires (w/out fusable links) that run to the starter solenoid were burned through and corroded. I don't know for sure, but I think they were corroded because of the heat. I replaced those wires, no effect on the voltage reading.
2) the fuel pump might be making more noise than usual. Could a pump going bad draw enough current to make it look like the charging system isn't working?
You need to get voltage to the I input on your alternator to "turn on" the alternator. You need to have this voltage when the ignition switch is in RUN.
Refer to the diagram I posted. I can't tell from your discription whether the circuit from the Batt terminal of the solenoid through the fuse link and the ammeter to the ignition swt. is still there or not.
At the old VR plug remove your jumper from S to A.
See if you have voltage at S of the old plug when the ignition is in run. (and no voltage with ignition off.)
If you have voltage, turn the ignition off, put the jumper between S and F of the old VR plug.
The instructions in the link you posted had you hook the other end of the F wire to the I input on the 3G.
You stated you had nothing hooked to the A input on the Alt.
Hook the A to the big output terminal with the 4g wire.
Use the hacksaw blade trick I posted earlier to see if the alternator is "turning on" with the ignition in RUN.
If you have magnetism start it up it should start charging.
Were the two burned little wires on the Battery terminal of the solenoid? If so are they part of the factory harness?
The "I" terminal is connected to the orange/light blue stripe wire from the original harness. That's one of the two wires that fried, I think.
The two burned wires were replaced wires of the original harness. At some point before I got the car, the factory wiring at that point had been replaced with similar gauge wire.
I'll try your suggestions and post the results. Thanks.
hey guys
just for the record , and if memory serves me correctly,,
We never really came to a group conclusion as to how the 3g would properly be done on the TC due to the wiring being different.
I think i had as an action item when doing that 3g thread.
Ill ask again,,,,,,,,
Does anyone here have a 3g upgrade on a stock 2.3?
The daily driver hasn't been for a couple of months now. I took it to a mechanic, who gave up on it. Asked around, got recommended to a "Ford expert". He's had it over a month. I spoke with him today. It appears that the ignition switch isn't affecting power routing. The ignition and fuel systems are energized whenever the battery is connected, hence the constant drain and the car running when it's "turned off".
Also, I haven't seen any evidence of a remote alarm being installed (but who knows).
My question is, where would be some places that the wiring would bypass ignition switch?
Beside the 3g is the wiring stock?
Are you up for some trouble shooting with your meter?
Is the wiring stock? No. How far from not stock I don't know, but I'd guess "mostly original".
The car is still with the mechanic. If he (also) gives up, then yes, I'll be up for some troubleshooting.
Got the "DD" back from the mechanic, finally. I didn't get all the details, but one thing that might be of interest to you, the battery is bad. It slowly loses it's charge, so it works fine so long as the car is used daily. Let it sit a few days, and maybe the car won't start.