General => Lounge => Topic started by: P71 on January 30, 2008, 10:17:38 AM
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 30, 2008, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: eBay
Seller Update: Fees, Rewards & Standards eBay buyers want value and selection from sellers they can trust--and good sellers deserve rewards for delivering great customer service. That's why we're making a number of important changes that may affect you: Reduced Listing Fees You asked, we listened. We're reducing Insertion Fees and adjusting Final Value Fees to lower your up-front cost to sell on eBay. You wanted free Gallery, now you've got it--plus more feature discounts. Lower Insertion Fees Making Gallery free Lower fees for Gallery Plus, Picture Pack, and Feature Plus
Rewards for great sellers There will be discounts and incentives for those who satisfy customers best. Who decides who gets rewarded? Customers do, by giving sellers high Detailed Seller Ratings (DSRs). More search exposure through Best Match Fee discounts for PowerSellers Increased protection for PowerSellers
Feedback Changes Significant changes coming soon will increase buyer confidence and showcase good sellers. Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback. Positive repeat customer Feedback will count and Feedback more than 12 months old won't. Negative and neutral Feedback left by the buyer will be removed for transactions in which a buyer doesn't respond to the Unpaid Item (UPI) or if the member is suspended.
For more details on how these changes may affect you, attend a special Seller Webinar at 10:00 a.m. this Friday, February 1. You may also see announcements from eBay executives on the Announcement Board.
That's it, I'm done. HTF are we supposed to know about buyer's bad transactions if they can only get Positives?!?!?!?? eBay has lost their minds....
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: bhazard on January 30, 2008, 10:21:37 AM
I saw that. Thats nuts. Whats the point in having feedback at all if everything is gonna be good?
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: tc² on January 30, 2008, 10:46:45 AM
How will that increase buyer confidence? The best thing about eBay was the feedback, now it's going to hell. This is apocalyptic.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: GrannysBird on January 30, 2008, 11:04:13 AM
Well that sucks.........
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 30, 2008, 11:41:59 AM
There is hell to pay for it on the eBay message boards. I predict eBay will reverse that monumentally stupid decision...
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: dominator on January 30, 2008, 11:45:47 AM
Guys that doesn't suck. That's awesome,it says buyers not sellers. You know how many times i've had a bad or misrepresented product from a seller and threatened a negitive on him, only for him to say fine i'll just leave you one back. This negates that option for the seller to just retaliate for no good reason and leave the buyer a negative when the problem started at the seller.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 30, 2008, 11:53:53 AM
99.9% of buyers with negative feedbacks deserve them.
You "threatening" a negative is actually against the eBay User Agreement. Either leave it or don't, you can't "threaten to leave it" as a bargaining chip. If the seller deserved it, he will have to deal with it through eBay and PayPal (which actually works from the buyers side about 75-80% of the time in my observance).
This leaves seller's no recourse whatsoever and paints the picture that every buyer is some sort of saint, which is BULL. Do you know how many deadbeat bidders there are that NEVER pay? Or how much of a hassle it is to get the Final Value Fee refunded?
This is . eBay will change the policy back, or be dead and bankrupt by the end of the year.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Hillbilly Deluxe on January 30, 2008, 11:59:56 AM
Yeah I think it's crazy too! I think what Ebay was thinking is if you see a buyer with X amount of transactions and no feedback then they are a bad buyer. They are trying to use feedback for the Buyer as a reward. Like being a kid an accumulating gold stars.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 30, 2008, 12:09:08 PM
That's not the only thing! The FVF (Final Value Fee, percentage of the sale eBay charges to the sellers) is going up from 5.25% to 8.75%!! Add in PayPal's 3%-5% and now you have to be making a 15% profit gross to net 1%-3%!!!
I am oh so definitely done. Wonder how popular Google auctions will be?
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: tc² on January 30, 2008, 01:44:36 PM
I didn't even know Google auctions existed!
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 30, 2008, 02:10:30 PM
Quote from: dominator;200965
Guys that doesn't suck. That's awesome,it says buyers not sellers. You know how many times i've had a bad or misrepresented product from a seller and threatened a negitive on him, only for him to say fine i'll just leave you one back. This negates that option for the seller to just retaliate for no good reason and leave the buyer a negative when the problem started at the seller.
It sucks, and is stupid beyond comprehension. Now when I have a non-paying bidder I have no recourse and no way of warning other sellers. Now when I have a buyer making unreasonable demands (such as "Give me free shipping or I'll neg you" - and believe me, it does happen) I'll have no recourse. Now when I have a buyer writing me two days after the auction ended bitching because they haven't received their item yet there is nothing to stop them from leaving me unreasonable negs. Now if somebody buys something from me and then does a fraudulent credit card chargeback even with proof they received the item I have no means of warning people.
I can tell you with not even a tiny bit of doubt that buyers will use this to take advantage of, threaten, and blackmail sellers. Having sold on eBay for 8 years I can also tell you that sellers are not the problem. Buyers are. Non-paying bidders who leave negs when you neg them. Buyers doing fraudulent chargebacks. I'd bet that for every bad seller there are 100 bad buyers.
Mike has it right: This stupid move could well be the end of eBay. It has undermined the whole feedback system. I can well see a mass migration to Amazon auctions if eBay doesn't reverse this stupidity. There is outrage all over eBay's own boards, and as this thread demonstrates, the outrage is spreading into other message forums all over the world. People have long been complaining that eBay has been getting worse and worse to do business with. High fees, shiznitty customer support (the sellers are their customers, not the buyers), indifferent attitudes toward fraud, seemingly "make-it-up-as-they-go" listing rules, and now this.
Either eBay will rescind this idiocy or die. Or, I can also see, they'll be taken to court. Forcing sellers to leave positive feedback is a free speech thing.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Cougar5.0 on January 30, 2008, 02:30:52 PM
Many sellers will not give feedback until you give them a "positive" feedback.
They basically hold the buyer hostage.
If the buyer validly leaves negative feedback, the seller would ALWAYS have the option to leave a negative feedback in return due to their "withholding" feedback technique.
Sellers are BLACKMAILING buyers - and I, for one, hate that sleazy tactic.
There has to be a better way to discourage non-paying buyers than to have a system that is ripe for abuse.
JMHO.
Also note:
Quote
Negative and neutral Feedback left by the buyer will be removed for transactions in which a buyer doesn't respond to the Unpaid Item (UPI) or if the member is suspended.
So there is protection for the seller from the nonpaying buyer who is a dick head.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: 87Cougar5pd on January 30, 2008, 02:40:36 PM
The rating system on eBay is a joke anyway. Buyers and sellers alike use it to threaten each other. I can't count how many times I have read in an auction: "I won't leave feedback until I receive feedback"
If the system worked the way they intended the seller would have to leave feedback before the buyer could. Feedback for a buyer is supposed to be a direct reflection of how well they kept their end of the deal. (Paid on time, in the manner requested, etc...) Feedback for the seller should reflect how well they did. (Shipping time, condition of part, etc...)
People on both sides of the deal play the "system". In my opinion, never spend more money on an eBay deal than your willing to loose, burn, or throw away. I have had dealings that turned out to be just that, money wasted and other that were great value....but that's the chance you take.
Ray
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 30, 2008, 02:52:06 PM
WRONG
I have to disagree there man. BUYERS all the problem. The first Unpaid Item Strike doesn't even count! So every single freaking non-paying little kid that wins an auction is going to neg the Seller, with no recourse for the seller. He's out his listing and FVF fees, and has a neg that WON'T go away even if he DOES file a NPB Strike.
Carm hit the nail on the head on fraudulent charge-backs. eBay (and PayPal) have no protection from this at all. Even if you have the signature from the buyer when the package was delivered you have no "proof" to them. So now you're out the fees (listing, final value, AND PayPal, on top of whatever the bank/credit card company charges you for the chargeback), the item, nobody will help you, AND on top of that you can't warn anybody else? Come on man, be reasonable!
Do you know how many buyers make "demands"? Or pull stunts like sending only the auction price (without the shipping fees)? It happens more and more every week on eBay.
As a buyer, I *always* leave feedback first, as soon as the item arrives and I've used it/made sure it worked/etc. No worries from ME about getting a neg in return, the seller got my cash and a positive, he's going to leave the same in kind.
Now if a seller deserves a negative, and I've left it, I know I'm getting a neg back. 75% of the time they immediately pay for the "mutual withdrawal" (which is BS, they should stay period). The other times the seller has either been kicked off of eBay (which shows on the feedbacks) or I get to leave a "response" to my feedback.
So if I'm a seller checking out a bidder, and he has negatives that say things like "chargeback, underpaid, shipping extortionist, etc" I block them. How am I supposed to know any of that now? Everybody will be a little 100% perfect buyer kitteh. SCREW THAT!
This will kill eBay. I'll be happy to bring this thread back from the dead on that day!
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 30, 2008, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;201011
WRONG
I have to disagree there man. BUYERS all the problem.
NOPE... Probably the ratio of bad buyers to bad sellers is very high, but there are shiznit head sellers as well...
For instance I bought a book I never got, the seller did finally send the wrong one and when I opened a dispute, his account was closed...
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 30, 2008, 03:47:17 PM
Tom, for your one bad experience with a seller I have 100 bad buyer experiences.
Anybody who thinks that a buyer should receive feedback as soon as the payment is completed is an idiot. The transaction is NOT completed until the buyer has the item.
If I were to leave feedback immediately it would strip me of any protection against:
Stupid feedbacks from a buyer who thought that my shipping costs were too high (I actually lose money on shipping)
Premature feedbacks from customers who think that shipping took too long (buyer pays cheapest shipping then expects overnight delivery) - once the post office has the item it's out of my hands, but unreasonable customers don't see it that way
Buyers that do a chargeback immediately upon receiving the positive feedback, after it's too late for the seller to not ship the item.
Buyers that don't pay after stringing me along for a month claiming payment is on the way (actually, fear of retaliatory feedback already prevents most sellers from leaving feedback for unpaid items)
Buyers who refuse to pay shipping after doing "BUY IT NOW"
Buyers who do "BUY IT NOW", then demand discounts
Buyers who buy for the sole purpose of leaving negative feedback after they've been negged and blocked from bidding under a different user ID
eBay makes their money from SELLERS. Not buyers. Sellers pay ALL the fees. Sellers are eBay's customers, and eBay is now showing just how much it doesn't give a shiznit about its customers. SELLERS bear 99% of the risk in a transaction - 100% where credit card transactions are concerned (and 99% of my customers pay via credit card). I'd venture to say that the vast majority of fraudulent sellers are those who have hijacked others' eBay accounts through phishing, sell a load of stuff, then fvck off with the money.
Yes, there are a few honest-to-goodness bad sellers out there, but that's what the feedback system is for. The bad sellers are FAR outweighed by bad buyers. I've dealt with a bad seller or two myself, and left negative feedback, and was quickly rewarded with a retaliatory neg, but that's the way things are. In order for any feedback system to be worthwhile BOTH parties must be able to say what they want, without eBay nannying over one group.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Red_LX on January 30, 2008, 04:04:27 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;201005
Many sellers will not give feedback until you give them a "positive" feedback.
They basically hold the buyer hostage.
If the buyer validly leaves negative feedback, the seller would ALWAYS have the option to leave a negative feedback in return due to their "withholding" feedback technique.
Sellers are BLACKMAILING buyers - and I, for one, hate that sleazy tactic.
There has to be a better way to discourage non-paying buyers than to have a system that is ripe for abuse.
JMHO.
Yeah. I don't like the feedback system as it is very much.
I don't sell much, but I do buy a lot. And yes, I have had a lot of sellers that WILL NOT leave you feedback until you leave some for them.
Hell- I've seen instances where people left a negative for a seller because their item was wrong, damaged, whatever...and the seller turns around and leaves the buyer a negative feedback and calls them a "bad ebayer." That sort of thing shouldn't be allowed.
I had a guy a couple years ago- I bought some -8 AN lines from him, when I got them I didn't get the same ones pictured in the auction. I e-mailed the guy and told him about it and he goes, "Oh well, I guess I mixed them up with another order, nothing can do about it now." So I left him a neutral feedback, the next day he e-mails me back, and says "Thanks a lot, you ruined my perfect feedback (which I didn't, since neutrals don't count), I could have worked something out with you if you would have just let me know, blah blah blah" I said, "wait a minute- You told me there was nothing you could do about it!" Thank God he had already left me a positive feedback, because he probably would have left me a negative for no good reason.
It looks to me like the fees are getting ridiculous. Guess I won't be selling much of anything now.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 30, 2008, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;201019
NOPE... Probably the ratio of bad buyers to bad sellers is very high, but there are shiznit head sellers as well...
For instance I bought a book I never got, the seller did finally send the wrong one and when I opened a dispute, his account was closed...
There's definitely bad sellers! But this feedback/fee structure is going to ensure that the bad ones are all that's left.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: rodsterh on January 30, 2008, 05:07:05 PM
"reducing Insertion Fees and adjusting Final Value Fees to lower"
Wisely written. I didn't check into the specifics yet but the message led me to believe they were "reducing" and "lowering" the fees for a change. Silly me.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Quietleaf on January 30, 2008, 08:53:52 PM
I've seen countless auctions where the seller proclaims that if a buyer leaves negative feedback, the seller will do the same to the buyer. This is sleazy and wrong. Will this change fix that? I don't know. But ebay has definitely become a magnet for sleazy sellers, and they're ruining it for the good ones.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Ductape91 on January 30, 2008, 10:18:40 PM
the whole ebay buying/selling experience seems to be a mess anymore in my opinion. nothing but feedback blackmail, insane shipping charges, buddie bidding and P.O. box addresses. my friend who was a member since 99 or so just lost his account this year because of shady paypal dickery. i hope they do fall apart and die while i sell my stuff locally on craigslist for FREEEEEEEEE:flip:
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: grutinator on January 30, 2008, 10:51:29 PM
when it comes to bad sellers, jugge judy can lay down the law!
this is how dishonest currupted and just plain old low-down people can be and try to weasle thier way out of it. this is the reason i try to avoid purchasing through ebay.
http://www.vivalagames.com/view/ebayscammer/
i've only bought one thing, those heads, off ebay and have been fairly satisfied. i'm coming to find out they werent as honest about some things like springs and stuff like that. i didnt buy a loaded head so i could just buy springs, retainers and locks later on.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Carl on January 30, 2008, 11:49:51 PM
I have been scammed on ebay (never got product) from a seller never from a buyer. Out of $50 like that. The member had 1,800 Positives.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: kingcars on January 30, 2008, 11:55:17 PM
Quote from: grutinator;201106
when it comes to bad sellers, jugge judy can lay down the law!
this is how dishonest currupted and just plain old low-down people can be and try to weasle thier way out of it. this is the reason i try to avoid purchasing through ebay.
http://www.vivalagames.com/view/ebayscammer/
Wow, that woman got owned. :flame: :toilet: :flip:
As long as you're careful with what you purchase and who you're purchasing from, it's not so bad. I remember when I got my 3.27 ratio gears from ebay, the guy sent them out and when it got to us, there was a huge hole in the side of the box and it weighed just as heavy as an empty cardboard box was. However, it wasn't the seller's fault because on the box's label, it stated that it weighed 15lb I think it was...you get the idea. So we notified the seller with this and FedEx really didnt do much (one reason I prefer UPS), but the guy replied to our email while he was on vacation, and right when he got back, he sent us another set of 3.27s. There are plenty of legit people on ebay, you just gotta know where to look. (On a side note, those gears are finally being installed tomorrow morning)
However, that new rule is a load of shiznit. Wow. Might as well not even allow feedback...
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Cougar5.0 on January 31, 2008, 01:14:32 AM
Yeah, that's been my biggest issue so far on Ebay - amateurs who have no idea how to package the item. Well, that and USPS would NOT accept responsibility for damaging the package even tough I found it in the middle of the road run over by a car. The UPS damaged stuff was covered by insurance.
I'd say 1/3 of the stuff I've bought from Ebay has been damaged due to poor packaging.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: 75coug on January 31, 2008, 08:43:13 AM
Quote from: dominator;200965
Guys that doesn't suck. That's awesome,it says buyers not sellers. You know how many times i've had a bad or misrepresented product from a seller and threatened a negitive on him, only for him to say fine i'll just leave you one back. This negates that option for the seller to just retaliate for no good reason and leave the buyer a negative when the problem started at the seller.
I agree. This change in ebay policy is a good thing. Feedback for buyers is fairly meaningless in the greater scheme of things.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 31, 2008, 12:47:06 PM
Here's another dork seller...I messaged him three days ago telling him it was a '74(prob from a LTD) radio NOT an original '68...
You guys that KNOW what you are selling generally say so... I buy lots of old radio items and see all sorts of rediclous claims... Many are just plain ignorant, but also many only picture the item from the best angle or have poor pictures... I've learned to avoid these guys...
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 31, 2008, 01:12:28 PM
"Those guys" will be the only ones left selling on eBay. All of the honest sellers that are left will leave after this takes effect.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: 75coug on January 31, 2008, 02:10:27 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;201181
All of the honest sellers that are left will leave after this takes effect.
Why would honest sellers leave?
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 31, 2008, 04:11:56 PM
Because no matter how honest sellers are, dipshiznit buyers will neg them. For example, I live in Canada and when I ship items to USA there's often a delay at the US border. That's a problem with your government, not my business practices. Who do you think will receive the negative feedbacks for it, though? So after receiving a few negative feedbacks from idiot buyers through no fault of my own I'll be booted. eBay is also going to start booting anyone who gets more than a few negs OR NEUTRALS (yep, eBay has confirmed it - Neutral = Negative) in 90 days. Because dipshiznit buyers can now punish honest sellers for no reason whatsoever and with absolutely no fear of retribution, the honest sellers will leave (or be driven out).
Meanwhile, the ones that are actually scamming people are usually doing so with hijacked ID's. They don't give a about feedback ratings because they'll just move on to another stolen ID.
Ebay is going by the obsolete "Customer is always right" attitude. An attitude that any business school will tell you is a surefire way to go out of business. The customer is certainly NOT always right, and any business owner, indeed, anyone who works in retail, will verify that.
What eBay is now doing is akin to passing a law that allows customers to go into retail establishments and demand discounts or special treatment, threatening that if they don't get it they'll put a sign up in front of the store saying they were ripped off, and making it so that the store owner can do nothing about it. They are essentially opening up a Pandora's box of blackmail possibilities.
Reasonable people who only buy and don't sell can't be expected to understand. Now, with nothing stopping them from slandering sellers, they can't even be expected to be reasonable.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on January 31, 2008, 04:15:14 PM
DIShonest Buyers. We no longer have any sort of recourse whatsoever. What do I do when somebody threatens a neg unless I give them free shipping? (Has happened to me over a dozen times in the last year) What do I do when a dishonest person tries for a negligent chargeback? (Visa stopped that one no thanks to eBay, if it had been a PayPal auction I'd be up a creek). What happens when they never pay? (Happened at least thirty times, seller's are out the listing and FVF fees and the first NPB complaint from each seller is ignored!)
This takes the final recourse from sellers away. eBay will look like it's sister (half.com), a sea of giant sellers (who move 1,000's of items/month) who move so much product that negatives won't affect them. They will continue to not give a about customers.
All of the "small guys" that follow the rules and DO try to make the buyer happy will leave under increasing fee pressure and lack of support.
ALL of the "bad sellers" mentioned in the above posts are off-s warehouse companies or huge retailers/resellers here that just don't care.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: FLSTCI71 on January 31, 2008, 07:59:59 PM
Quote
Anybody who thinks that a buyer should receive feedback as soon as the payment is completed is an idiot.
I guess I am an idiot then because that's exactly what I think. As soon as the seller has my money, I have fulfilled my part of the transaction. The rest is up to the seller. I agree the seller is then exposed to scammers, but that's part of the risk of selling. It's sad there are dishonest buyers out there, but that is no reason for a seller to hold my feedback hostage. I have paid my money and expect my rightly deserved positive feedback right away.
Having said all of that, this new plan is not going to fix any of those problems. It is not fair to the sellers, myself included as I have sold several cars, snowmobiles, parts, etc on eBay. The feedback system needs some sort of overhaul, not this, but something....
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: chas jr on January 31, 2008, 08:43:00 PM
I must be an idiot also. I almost never had a seller on ebay leave positive feed back after I have paid. Lets not forget that I always used a Pay Pal account that had cash in it.. Never credit card..So if I paid in cash then I am intitalled to positive feed back as I fulfiled my side of deal. I am very resonable with the expectations of shipping. So when seller ships promptly as promised and it is packaged well, then positive feed back can be left.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: V8Demon on January 31, 2008, 08:44:35 PM
I've had 2 experiences where I was a buyer and the seller did not send the item....Both payments were by M.O. One was eBay, the other was HERE at about the time we switched over from the Sleezyboard. Both transactions involved so little money that it wasn't even worth pursuing....The one here the guy never came back.
Here's the thread.....http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=2735
I even think I have the M.O. receipt still. It should be in my night stand. This was way before the feedback section so I really didn't want to post it. E-mails were sent without reply..... Beware [COLOR="SandyBrown"]85 4 eye.[/COLOR] As I said he hasn't posted in almost 3 years, but he may be in other places.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 01, 2008, 08:31:44 AM
Quote from: FLSTCI71;201257
I guess I am an idiot then because that's exactly what I think. As soon as the seller has my money, I have fulfilled my part of the transaction. The rest is up to the seller. I agree the seller is then exposed to scammers, but that's part of the risk of selling. It's sad there are dishonest buyers out there, but that is no reason for a seller to hold my feedback hostage. I have paid my money and expect my rightly deserved positive feedback right away.
Having said all of that, this new plan is not going to fix any of those problems. It is not fair to the sellers, myself included as I have sold several cars, snowmobiles, parts, etc on eBay. The feedback system needs some sort of overhaul, not this, but something....
Quote from: chas jr;201260
I must be an idiot also. I almost never had a seller on ebay leave positive feed back after I have paid. Lets not forget that I always used a Pay Pal account that had cash in it.. Never credit card..So if I paid in cash then I am intitalled to positive feed back as I fulfiled my side of deal. I am very resonable with the expectations of shipping. So when seller ships promptly as promised and it is packaged well, then positive feed back can be left.
No, you haven't fulfilled your part of the deal, neither of you, because I don't know you from Adam and you could still commit fraud after your payment was sent (once you've got a tracking number and a positive, what's stopping you?), and if I can't leave you a neg I've got no way of warning others - no bargaining chip, no deterrence. Or you could start making unreasonable demands such as refunded shipping, or demanding that I send the item via priority mail instead of the basic ground shipping that you paid for, or demanding that extra parts are included at no extra cost.
How about the guy who buys on October 31st, and doesn't pay until Dec 15th, and even then only after I pester him for six weeks and file a non-paying bidder alert? Should he automatically get a positive just because he paid?
I've had, on at least two occasions, people buy my sequencers and when they received them they wrote me back all pissed off that they didn't receive a full set of tail lights, demanding full refunds (and in one case didn't even want to send the sequencer back, he just wanted his money back). My eBay auctions are very detailed as to whats included and what isn't. Why should I be out listing fees, final value fees, and shipping fees, for some other idiot's mistake?!?!? The fact that I could still leave negatives against them (and very well deserved negatives) were the only things that prevented them from leaving negs (and very UNdeserved negs) against me.
On another occasion I had a person demand that I pay his installation charges because he couldn't handle the installation himself (that one actually did leave me a negative saying that the kit was great but that he had to pay to have it installed, without even contacting me until after he left it, and I left him one right back, calling him an unreasonable customer with unreasonable demands - was that wrong of me?).
Several times a week, and during busy times several times a day, I have customers writing me, moaning that their package hasn't arrived yet. Most are polite, simply asking for an update, but there are those few (who, sadly, are not so few) who are rude, and write in a manner such as "I bought this a week ago and it still hasn't arrived. Get back to me immediately or I'm filing fraud charges". I also very often get people saying "I bought this a week ago and haven't heard from you at all since", which is utter bullshiznit because not only do I write people the moment I've turned my computer on and received their purchase confirmation, but when I print a shipping label Canada Post emails the buyer with shipping info as well. Now, my auctions clearly state shipping times from Canada to USA. These shipping times are Canada Post's shipping standards, taken right off their website. My auctions further explain this by going into great detail about US customs delays, especially in this post 9/11 world. My auctions offer two shipping methods: Slow and fast. When somebody pays for slow shipping they're gonna get slow shipping. With every single item purchased from me I send the buyer an email explaining the shipping times all over again, knowing full well they didn't bother reading it in the auction. Once I've given the parcel to the post office it is out of my control. I cannot call the mailman on his cell phone and tell him to hurry up. Tell me what I've done that's unreasonable, yet now with no fear of retribution I'll surely receive negative feedbacks over it.
The bottom line is this: I should have the right to warn fellow sellers against doing business with douche-bag buyers just as buyers should be able to warn other buyers against doing business with douche-bag sellers. And just like buyers, I should have the right to decide when, if, and what kind of feedback I'm going to leave.
Just because you paid doesn't mean you were a pleasant experience.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on February 01, 2008, 09:50:16 AM
Afreakingmen Carm. I couldn't agree more!
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: FLSTCI71 on February 01, 2008, 09:50:16 AM
Thunder Chicken, everything you say about being exposed is true. However, from an honest buyer's perspective, bottom line, you have my money, so I have fulfilled my part of the deal. You're still holding my feedback hostage. That's why the feedback system is a joke and the new announcement makes it even worse.
I sort of feel sorry for you because it sounds like a lot of your customers are whining scammers. Wait a minute, I bought a sequencer from you and was very happy with the transaction. Well, I guess some of your customers are cool.
I am not the enemy here as I sell on eBay too. Obviously, I don't sell as much as you, but I do sell. I don't disagree that you have exposures, but that's life on the internet. If the risks are too great, then don't use eBay. I sell at car shows, swap meets, other websites, Hemmings, Old Cars, etc. There are a lot of things I wouldn't list on eBay because I don't feel the risk is worth it. You're in Canada, so you have one strike against you due to shipping delays. I don't know what the fix is for that, but holding my feedback hostage is not the answer.
I hope all of the negative feedback to eBay (pun intended) causes them to reverse this announcement and come up with something better. You are right, the sellers are eBay's customers, not the buyers and this latest decision makes a bad system even worse.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 01, 2008, 12:24:29 PM
Quote from: FLSTCI71;201354
Thunder Chicken, everything you say about being exposed is true. However, from an honest buyer's perspective, bottom line, you have my money, so I have fulfilled my part of the deal. You're still holding my feedback hostage. That's why the feedback system is a joke and the new announcement makes it even worse.
From an honest buyer's perspective, perhaps, but I have no way of telling who is an honest buyer and who isn't (and not being able to leave negative feedback will make it so I have no way of pointing the bad apples out to others). One might pay today, but he might do a chargeback Monday. Or next week. Or next month, after he's received the item.
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I sort of feel sorry for you because it sounds like a lot of your customers are whining scammers. Wait a minute, I bought a sequencer from you and was very happy with the transaction. Well, I guess some of your customers are cool.
Yes, most of my customers are cool. My 1600+ positive feedback and two negs shows that most of my transactions go well. Unfortunately when people look at feedback they don't care about the positives, they only want to see the negatives. The new system will pretty much guarantee more negatives.
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I am not the enemy here as I sell on eBay too. Obviously, I don't sell as much as you, but I do sell. I don't disagree that you have exposures, but that's life on the internet. If the risks are too great, then don't use eBay. I sell at car shows, swap meets, other websites, Hemmings, Old Cars, etc. There are a lot of things I wouldn't list on eBay because I don't feel the risk is worth it. You're in Canada, so you have one strike against you due to shipping delays. I don't know what the fix is for that, but holding my feedback hostage is not the answer.
When a feedback is left for me I leave one for the buyer. I started doing this two years after selling because I used to leave feedback for everybody but noticed that the ratio of feedback I was leaving to feedback I was receiving was about 10:1. I figured if people couldn't be bothered leaving it for me I couldn't be bothered leaving it for them.
As for holding feedback hostage: I am not holding your feedback hostage, I am preventing you from holding MINE hostage. Or at least I was, until this stupidity came about. As a seller, feedback is much more important to me than it is to a buyer.
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I hope all of the negative feedback to eBay (pun intended) causes them to reverse this announcement and come up with something better. You are right, the sellers are eBay's customers, not the buyers and this latest decision makes a bad system even worse.
That's just it. The feedback system was always flawed, but at least it was equal. It's kinda like nuclear weapons - nobody wants to use 'em because if they do, one will be coming right back at them. That balance is now being removed. Buyers are free to nuke whoever they please for whatever reason they please with no means of retribution.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 01, 2008, 12:32:53 PM
Well, I was also another of your "silent" satisfied customers TC.
I'm sorry and a little bit annoyed that this debate is being dominated by those who have the biggest bone to pick. I am a very conscientious buyer and I am offended that sellers won't give me positive feedback once I have upheld my end of the agreement. Holding me hostage based on a few bad apples is BAD FORM in my opinion. The GOOD EBAYERS, who are by far the majority in my opinion, should receive the benefit of the doubt IMO. I do not want to be lumped in with the scammers and whiners, thank you very much.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 01, 2008, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;201344
On another occasion I had a person demand that I pay his installation charges because he couldn't handle the installation himself (that one actually did leave me a negative saying that the kit was great but that he had to pay to have it installed, without even contacting me until after he left it, and I left him one right back, calling him an unreasonable customer with unreasonable demands - was that wrong of me?).
Was he stupid or something? I'm no electrical wiz and the kit was easy as hell to install. I mean come on match color coded wires. Geesh :hick:
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on February 01, 2008, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;201388
Well, I was also another of your "silent" satisfied customers TC.
I'm sorry and a little bit annoyed that this debate is being dominated by those who have the biggest bone to pick. I am a very conscientious buyer and I am offended that sellers won't give me positive feedback once I have upheld my end of the agreement. Holding me hostage based on a few bad apples is BAD FORM in my opinion. The GOOD EBAYERS, who are by far the majority in my opinion, should receive the benefit of the doubt IMO. I do not want to be lumped in with the scammers and whiners, thank you very much.
Just a note, the feedback system is 100% OPTIONAL. I don't have to give you feedback, at all, period. So there is no "hostage holding".
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 01, 2008, 04:31:34 PM
Good Ebay seller:
Quote
POSITIVE FEEDBACK will be given to buyer ONCE we received FULL PAYMENT.
Non-Paying Bidder will receive UNPAID DISPUTE from eBay.
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FEEDBACK We will give POSITIVE feedback as soon as payment is received. We take pride in our actions and hope you will continue to bid on our future auctions. Customer satisfaction is our #1 priority and if you are not satisfied in any way with your purchase, please contact us before feedback is left so we can resolve the situation properly.
Annoying blackmail using Ebay seller:
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Feedback:
Feedback will be left once you have received your part and have left feedback for us. If you choose to leave negative or neutral feedback without contacting us to try and resolve an issue, we will leave negative feedback for you. We want every transaction to be as pleasant and fun as possible and are willing to do what ever we can (within reason) to resolve any problems that may arise. Please call our toll free phone number 1-888-925-7669 or email us @ gostanggo@aol.com if you have any issues with our product or service.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: P71 on February 01, 2008, 05:07:51 PM
Quote from: eBay Feedback Policy;201457
While leaving Feedback is voluntary, eBay encourages all members to leave Feedback after each transaction is complete. There are different philosophies on whether the buyer or seller should leave Feedback first. Each member may choose the best approach to leaving Feedback for them.
eBay's Feedback-related policies are designed to encourage open and honest trading. However, to ensure that Feedback is used for the proper purpose and not abused, eBay has some basic rules that must be followed.
Members cannot undermine the Feedback system using practices such as:
*Feedback Extortion - Threatening to leave negative or neutral feedback for another member unless the other member provides goods or services not included in the original listing *Feedback Manipulation - Feedback left or received where the Feedback’s primary value is to artificially enhance a member’s reputation *Feedback in Seller Terms and Conditions - Sellers are not permitted to include in their listings or terms of sale any conditions that limit or restrict the buyer from leaving Feedback.
Violations of eBay’s policies may result in a range of actions including:
* Listing cancellation * Limits on account privileges * Account suspension * Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings * Loss of PowerSeller status
All three of your sellers there are in direct violation of eBay's Feedback Policy.
Please note that Feedback Extortion and Manipulation are both to protect the SELLER and will now run rampant.
Also note that the feedback system is VOLUNTARY. The SELLER has [COLOR="Red"]NO[/COLOR] requirement to leave you (the buyer) feedback at all. It is not being "held hostage".
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: chas jr on February 01, 2008, 08:50:13 PM
NO ONE HAS TO LEAVE FEED BACK................................. The idea of the feed back system is designed to warn as well as let others know how transactions had gone. From what I see of all the sellers saying they have bad experiences ruin it for the honest guy who will do what is right. If there is a problem with the item I buy I contact the seller to resolve. I have fortunately not had any real bad experiences buying. The seller states what he has to offfer accurately then buyer should not complain if it is not as expected or needs to ask before bidding. There are just too many dishonest people in this world any more.
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Johnny Cougar on February 12, 2008, 01:51:27 PM
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a-minus-minus.png)
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: nirvanagod on February 12, 2008, 04:58:33 PM
Quote from: Johnny Cougar;203724
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a-minus-minus.png)
HA! Gotta love XKCD!
Title: eBay went and kicked the bucket!
Post by: Cad-T-Bird 500 on February 21, 2008, 01:42:48 AM
eBay has been good to me overall. The number of people who has not paid me has been very small. It kind of irritating but I don't ship till I'm paid so be it, I still have the item.
I have 498 positive feedback but I most likely sold more than 3 time this amount. I use to worry about it but since I have 498 and 100% positive I kind of like to just freeze it and let it be, don't care if they leave feedback for me anymore or not.
I have a very liberal return policy. If someone complains than I ask them what would make them happy. Sometimes they just say a partial refund and this is fine with me. A couple of times I have just given them a full refund and let them keep the item, I really do not care anymore.
The other day I sold two wheels from a Ninja 250 and they were damaged in shipping, something to do with where the speedo hooks up. The guy wrote to me and read me and was mad as hell, going to leave me negative unless I did something for him right away. I wrote right back and told him that the customer is King and all he has to do is tell me what I need to do to make this right. He wrote back to me the next day and told me the new part was $6.42 cents and wanted that much refunded. I sent him $15 and told him to go out to lunch. He was very happy. Almost all my problems have been with shipping. I try very hard to box things correctly but I think they really like to bounce them around.
I also get to meet people from all around the world, very cool.
But I tell you I sure don't like the new fees. Used to be I could figure about 10% overall but now it's going to be 15% plus, this is terrible. But I know I get about 300% more than I get off of Craigslist and I don't have to deal with the people on there. The worst bunch of idiots are the ones the sell on Craigslist. Post their add and never answer their phone or read their email.