My '86 TC has the stock [tiny] exhuast other than some very quiet glasspacks. What kind of numbers could I expect with a 3" DP to 2.5" duals with no cats or lers? Currently has about 200 hp at the wheels.
Quiet glasspacks? If there isn't an oxymoron...
Carry on...
You'd be surprised. My stock '87 was louder...
Loud....and annoying.
You'll see a minor change in power/tq, but you'll also see a difference (quicker) in spool time.
It'll feel faster. Actually it should be worth 10-15 hp.
Also, you might consider at least some sort of lers. Unless you like the sound of tractors.
I don't really mind the sound too much... I mean I want it to sound decent, but a 4 banger can only sound so good. Sound vs. power loss due to lers kills me though.
It will sounds like ass, and you're not losing squat if you use the proper (read:straight-through) lers.
Something like this perhaps?
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_17246_-1
I was thinking more of something like this
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_744869_-1_10265
It's a non-stainless Ultraflo, which is straight-through.
But I don't see the offset/offset in 2-1/2". To avoid weirdness with tailpipes and alot of tweaking, you'll want to at the very least have an offset outlet. I guess if you're just having tailpipes made up it doesn't matter, but if you're using off-the-shelf pipes, most are made to work with offset outlets.
Race bullets don't really do any ling at all. I know this from experience.
FYI, Hooker Maximum Flow lers are cheaper than ultraflo's and the same design...also, someone recently posted up flow numbers from somewhere over on turboford, and a straight through 2 1/2" "big case" ler like an ultraflow or maximum flow was shown to flow almost as much air as a 2 1/2" straight pipe.
I have maximum flows on my car and I love them.
Thanks for the great info guys! Is a center in/dual out ler a bad idea? Something like this?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D636842&N=700+4294923429+4294922711+4294922710+115&autoview=sku
Or
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MPE%2D13288&N=700+4294923429+4294922711+4294922710+115&autoview=sku
That is not going to be easy to get 2 tailpipes to on a Fox car.
The Merkur guys use them alot, but they won't work well at all on a TBird.
yup, im with chuck. i run a round 6" ultraflow, but i dont use tailpipes; just a dump at the axle.
(http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/28917224.jpg)
I think that's what I have under the Tbird, I had to tweak my tailpipe a bit as the ler is mounted at an angle due to the way the pipe crosses over under the car.
I run an offset/offset 3" UltraFlow, no cat or tailpipe, and its loud, but doesnt sound bad at all.
I had 2.5" duals on my '87 TC, granted they were installed by a exhaust shop. I'm going to have whatever I decide installed by a shop again anyway lol.
I suppose a single 3" exhaust all the way wouldn't be that much more constrictive than dual 2.5"s right? Especially when the DP is only 3".
The only reason to use duals on a 2.3T is for looks. I will only run a single 3".
You will not make enough power to worry about a single 3" even being a restriction.
Ok, cool. Looks are a slight concern for me, I love the way duals look but single would be a little easier on the wallet. Thanks for the input everyone, I'm sure I'll post up when everything is installed.
A single 3" actually outflows the dual 2.5" setup anyways. You can do the "the area of the 2.5" pipe is _____, multiply that by two bla bla bla" routine, but you have to keep in mind, you double the amount of bends. Bends are more restrictive than pipe diameter.
Personally, I love these cars with the tucked exhaust look. They look best with no tails, one less distraction from the car itself.
Thanks 232, I appreciate your input.
At the same time, an idea struck me this afternoon that I think would be pretty neat -- 3" DP to a Center In/Dual Out ler, and then 3" to the exits, which would be right in front of the rear wheel wells. Minimum bending and cost. And I personally think it would look awesome, but, to each their own.
Generally, you need a U-bend, then a 90 degree bend to get it to exit in front of the rear wheels.
if you want lers... you can buy back the 2.5" flowmasters that you had on the 87... those came off. i went with a 3" dynomax bullet instead.
Lol thanks. I'll def keep that in mind.
I'm not doubting you, 232, but could you explain why a U-bend is necessary?
The U-bend is for when you run a standard ler.
Trying to fit a ler under the car anywhere except the stock ler cutouts will SEVERELY limit your ground clearance (hell, as my car is right now, my lers are the lowest point on my car and they drag a lot)
Side exhaust kits for mustangs use lers with the inlet & outlet on the same end, but I believe only two companies (Borla and Dynomax) actually sell lers like that and they are NOT cheap.
Otherwise you can run a regular ler, put a tight radius U-bend coming out the back of it, and run it back up to in front of the rear wheels, use another 90, and have it exit there.
BTW might wanna check the legality of side exhaust where you are, it's illegal here.
Gotcha, that makes sense. If I ran a bullet ler, for example, wouldn't it be possible to just put that at the end of the DP and then go to one side of the car or into a Y-pipe to both sides?
Here's a Flowmaster that looks like it has the inlet/outlet on the same end, but it is expensive as you said.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLO%2D52580&N=700+4294923429+4294922711+4294922710+115&autoview=sku
This one isn't too bad:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WLK%2D17676&N=700+4294923429+4294922711+4294922710+115&autoview=sku
Well, even a 3" bullet is gonna be 4 or 5" outside diameter...
And yeah, that actually isn't a bad price, I'd go that route for side exhaust. Hell, if I'd know you could get those for $60, I mighta considered side exhaust too (well aside from the fact that its technically illegal, too)
You'll just have to figure out hangers for the rear of the ler, since you won't have pipe to attach a hanger to.
I think the side exhaust is a bad idea.
why chuck? we ran a straight pipe on my dads out the side off the DP, i tell you what that thing spooled much faster then it does now.
To each their own. I still like the side exhaust idea more than any other. It's cheap, looks good, and unlocks some power which is most important. I do appreciate everyones input on here!
X2
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MPE%2D12619&N=700+4294923429+4294922711+400636+4294922710+4294791977+4294906121+4294814243+115&autoview=sku
Because it looks bad IMO. Especially just dumping it out the side like that.
Besides, you're not actually comparing what they are talking about. Just dumping the DP out the side does not compare to running out the side after a ler. Of course it's going to spool faster if you just stick a couple feet of pipe on after the downpipe as compared to a full, or mostly full system. It will sound like ass too....
Don't be a cheap ass just to be a cheap ass and try and cover it up like you think you're actually gaining power by running it that way.
well we shoved a flowmaster on there(yes i know it screws the flow) but even that spooled MUCH faster then the stock set up that we replaced it with. Hell we are just gonna end up running a 3 inch down pipe and a cut out, keep the rest stock
My exhaust on my 2nd TC was a 3" DP (original elbow) to a 3" flowmaster (bad idea) to a 3" downturn (worse idea). It sounded good for a TC, but it definitely cost power.
When I switched it to a 3" Ultra-Flow it picked up (especially the spool time) but it was even louder, the whole sidepipe/dump tube/axle dump is just straight LOUD no matter what you do. Running a pipe or pipes to the rear car is much better sounding and easier to live with.
A 3" single with a dual tip on one side (Isn't your 83 like that Chuck?) looks pretty awesome, but I do have to admit I like the looks of duals on TBirds/Cougars. It makes the look of the car IMO.