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General => Lounge => Topic started by: P71 on January 22, 2008, 04:01:55 PM

Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 22, 2008, 04:01:55 PM
I put new carpet in my 01 CVPI yesterday and swapped seats while I was at it. Now it doesn't want to shift out of park, the horn and cruise are non-functional, and the Airbag light is on. The harness on the new seat was cut and so it isn't plugged it. Is this what's causing all of my problems? Help! Carm, Paul, anybody?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 22, 2008, 04:13:20 PM
Did you unplug anything around the steering column, or more importantly, did you snag a plug and pull it apart without realizing it?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 22, 2008, 04:14:58 PM
I don't think so? The carpet doesn't go that far into the footwell. The only thing different electrically today then yesterday is the driver's seat isn't plugged in. I haven't checked fuses yet.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 22, 2008, 05:05:25 PM
OK, I checked the fuses and #22 is blown (15A, cruise control). I threw a 20A in and it immediately blew it too. So I pulled out the seat and spliced in the harness connector from my old seat (luckily everything was the same color/location) and put the seat back in. The airbag light is off now but the shifter problem remains. I have no more mini-BUS's so I can't check the fuse problem on the cruise. (I'm hoping it was the seat...).

I checked the brake pedal area, there's two switch/assembly/wired things under there, I wiggled them, disconnected and reconnected, no changes. Should I have somebody look at my brake lights?

What now (other then pick up some fuses!)?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: 87Cougar5pd on January 22, 2008, 06:40:48 PM
Check and see that your brake lights are coming on when you step on the brakes. If not, the shift interlock won't release and let you put it in gear. (FYI: All of the tail lights, excluding the high mount (3rd) brake light, go through the multi-function switch in the steering column.)
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 22, 2008, 10:43:47 PM
OK, I replaced all the blown fuses and the seat is plugged in. Here's what's wrong:

1.) The shifter will not come out of park in the normal key position
2.) Horn does not work
3.) Cruise does not work
4.) Hazards do not work
5.) BRAKE LIGHTS do not work

HELP!
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: nirvanagod on January 22, 2008, 10:58:39 PM
Fusible link? Master fuse under the hood? Have you tried probing for voltage at the non working bulb sockets?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: xjeffs on January 22, 2008, 11:16:12 PM
1.  Can you jumper out the brake switch to see if that fixes the shifting problem?  Check to see if your brake lights come on at the same time.  Could just be a switch.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: BEARMAX on January 22, 2008, 11:24:22 PM
i would half to say it must be the carpet...the car doesnt like it .so put the old carpet back in ......sorry i couldnt resist it....any way was there any thing you could of hit in the pass foot well ...or how is the battery could it be low from having the doors open and the radio on while replacing the carpet..does the car start...shift lock on petle.....i mean if the car was fine before the install then just retrace every move you made....good luck
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: jcassity on January 23, 2008, 12:30:34 AM
do you have the door open or closed while your checking the range selector?

Its starting to sound like a relay is goggled loose also.

I have to look at my evtm and verify what role the flasher plays as well.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 23, 2008, 12:35:01 AM
Door closed.

I'll check the brake switch tomorrow (the CVN guys say that it controls the shifter lockout and brakelights).

It does sound like I have 2 problems unless something came undone in the column itself?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 23, 2008, 12:41:17 AM
87Cougar5Spd had it right on, none of the brake lights work.

nirvanagod, the lights work, just not the brake lights (same bulb). I haven't checked the fusible links though, I'll get in there.

xjeffs, good idea, I'll do that after rechecking all of the fuses.

Bearmax, I had the garage stereo on and the battery is a 1 month old Optima 1000CCA red top. It has PLENTY of juice. I turn the key 1 click, shift to neutral, and then start it. Drives fine, just no brake lights! I might have dislodged something under there putting in the carpet though. I looked under there today, and unplugged and re-plugged it, everything visually looked ok. Guess it's time for the test light, jumper wires, and multi-meter...

jcassity, door closed.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: Clayton on January 23, 2008, 06:50:24 AM
switch on the brake pedal.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: V8Demon on January 23, 2008, 10:57:47 AM
Quote from: 87thunderbirdBlackJack;199450
switch on the brake pedal.


Yup.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: softtouch on January 23, 2008, 06:15:34 PM
From the '01 Crown Vic shop manual:

The fuse #22 circuit can be all of your problems except the horn.

The LG/RD wire from fuse 22 goes to:
1. The the speed control servo (through a deactivate switch)
2. The multifunction switch to power the hazard lamps.
3. The Brake Pedal Position switch.

The LG wire from the brake pedal position switch goes the the brake lights and the shift lock actuator.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: softtouch on January 23, 2008, 06:41:01 PM
On second thought, maybe fuse 22 circuit is also causing the horn problem.

The horn, fuse 5 in the battery junction box, horn relay also in the battery junction box.
The horn relay gets its' ground through the horn switches and the "sliding air bag contacts" then through the speed control servo controller.
If the speed control servo controller is missing its' hot at all times voltage from fuse 22 will it interupt the ground for the horn?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 23, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
Thanks guys!

I checked out the pedal stop switch really close and found 2 wires spliced in going back towards the firewall. Sure enough they were just cut on the other end and touching the frame, causing fuse #22 to blow. I clipped the wires out and threw some electrical tape on the nubs. New fuse and drove all day with no problems (brake lights work perfect, shift interlock functions correctly, hazards work).

So that problem is solved but I do still have a few. The cruise worked for awhile this morning, but now it doesn't. The horn is also inop. I replaced the fuses under-dash for both, but no dice. Could it be the underhood fuses or relays? Or should I keep digging around in the footwell?

BTW, I bought a new lifetime stoplight switch anyways, it was $7. I'll throw it in if it's starts acting up again, until then it can hang out in the glovebox.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: softtouch on January 23, 2008, 09:53:17 PM
The fuse and the relay for the horn are in the Battery Junction Box (under the hood).
It is fuse #5 and relay #2.

Fuse #5 is also the turn-on voltage for the cruise. If fuse #5 is blown or relay #2 unplugged you will not be able to turn-on the cruise or blow the horn.

There is a dark blue wire from the horn relay to the steering column.

The ground for the relay is through the horn switch on the steering wheel. This is the same ground used by the cruise switches on the steering wheel.
 The ground is a Dark Green/Orange wire from the steering column to the cruise control servo under the hood.

They don't use a vacuum servo motor like our foxes. It is an electric stepper motor. The control module is not seperate, it is built into the servo assembly.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 23, 2008, 09:56:36 PM
Wow! Thanks for the info! I'll check that underhood stuff out tomorrow since it's the cruise and horn that are both inop.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 23, 2008, 10:31:24 PM
Did the horn ever work since you bought it? Another feature of most sirens is the "horn ring" circuit. It gives the "squelch burst" sound I described earlier, but it is activated by tapping into the horn switch so the cop can clear intersections. The horn wire is cut and the siren box is put in between the cut (electrically, not physically) so that when the siren is off the horn functions normally, but when it's on the squelch burst/air horn sound is made. Often when stripping the cars the stripper isn't worried about making the car work right, he's worried about getting the police equipment out.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 24, 2008, 12:17:55 AM
You know Carm, I don't think I ever checked the horn. Where is that cut usually made?
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 24, 2008, 08:30:12 AM
Usually near the base of the column. Our shop stopped doing it years ago, before I started working there so I don't really remember exactly where it was. I only know about it because I had to strip some of the cars that had it done when I first started working there, and was instructed to simply cut the wires coming out of the siren box (we are paid a flat rate to strip 'em, and that flat rate isn't much so we're not exactly meticulous).
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on January 24, 2008, 04:04:05 PM
It just occurred to me that you mentioned your airbag light is on as well. Have you ever had the steering wheel off? If so it's likely that you rotated the "clock spring" coil behind the steering wheel. When removing the steering wheel it's extremely important to make absolutely sure that the clock spring does not rotate from its original position. If you rotate it and reinstall the wheel it'll pull itself apart the first time you rotate the wheel to full lock (if you've rotated it a bunch of times full lock isn't even necessary).

Unfortunately, if you've pulled it apart, it's fvcked. You need a new one.

The horn, cruise, and airbag all get their connections through the clockspring. Since you've got problems with all three I'd bet this is your problem.
Title: ! More Crown Vic help, this time electrical!
Post by: P71 on January 24, 2008, 04:31:45 PM
No airbag light anymore. It was 100% the driver's seat harness.

I have no cruise (which did work), and no horn as my only problems.

Steering wheel has never been apart (by me anyways, though the department records don't show anything either).