Love my cougar but is it time to retire it?
Looking for some feedback as in real debate
whether to do head gaskets, long block, or say goodby.
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FACTS
Original owner 1984 Cougar, 3.8, C5 tranny.
Mileage: 157K
Owner repaired except for tranny.
Vehicle garaged during life.
No rust or body deterioration
Headgaskets never replaced
Oil and Filter changed every 3000 miles
Last year replaced:
1) High pressure pump on rail
2) Radiator rodded and new thermostat and hoses
3) New value cover gaskets
4) New power steering pump -- included flush of rack/pinon
High Pressure hose previously replaced
5) Tranny rebuilt
6) New distributor
Current problems
1) Headgasket Leaking oil passenger side
2) Headgasket Leaking coolant driver side -- Appears to be external only leak
as nothing in oil and nothing from tailpipe
3) Head liner sagging
Potential forthcoming repairs as I see it
1) New Long Block
2) Universal Joints (minor)
3) Front end (Appears OK but 23 years old)
4) New rotors and drums (original on vehicle)
5) Head liner
6) Reupholser seats (Look good but 23 years old)
7) Pump in Gas Tank
8) Gas tank itself (no rust in lines, but not sure of useful life)
9) Heater Core
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A New Long Block installed $4500 (to big job for me)
Universal Joints 50
Front End ???? (unknown)
New Rotors and drums 300
Head liner ???? (unknown)
Reupholser ???? (unknown) but expect big bucks
Heater Core
$4500 for a long block swap? Seems a bit excessive.
what are your plans for the car show or driver? If you are planning on a driver I would say part with it. It needs to much now and will still need a lot more later, if you plan on a show car it is in prime shape for a resto. also not sure of your area but around here the fox's are hard to come by and anything older than 86 is getting very rare and worth repairing. Good luck with your decision I know how hard it is. I had to part with an 86 v8 model years ago because of repair bills and zoneing wouldn't alow me to keep it.
Thanks for responses.
$4500 seems to be going rate in Arizona
Car is for driving not show. I know parts are getting harder/harder to find especially any key plastic such as column steering indicator linkage. Just hate to pay the higher state taxes and insurance on a new one for the little mileage I put on.
I say make some friends who are good with Cars. And KEEP IT. I got rid of my 83 Cougar and I kick myself about it still.
And what would you pay to find another 25 year old car you could say those things about?
[SIZE="5"]Keep it.[/SIZE]
If it wasn't a 3.8 I'd say just find yourself a low mile used engine and swap and go. However, with the 3.8's the HG's are only a matter of time before they have to be done.
Thanks for all the input.
Chuck W Re:
Are you saying even with the new MLS Head gaskets, the 3.8 is subject to blowing them?
Just keep it. Find a cheap motor to replace yours or just do the head gaskets. $4500 is outrageous for your car. I got a whole long block from a junkyard for $450, and that was a 97 explorer 5.0 with 80k miles on it. Even included injectors, intake, and headers.
You should be able to pay to have new head, valve cover and intake gaskets for under $1200. If you've changed oil every 3k miles, there shouldn't be a need for a new long block.
True enough, but with 157,000 miles on the block it needs refreshed or replaced. The 3.8 also suffers from timing chain stretch...that can also mean a new cam is in order. Either way the engine has gotta come out of the engine bay. Far as the gaskets/heads go, so long as new head bolts are used and quality head gaskets (Fel-Pro) are installed, the 3.8 lasts a good long time. Look how long the original one has lasted him...
Just look at some of the threads elsewhere in this forum from people who have had one of these cars and sold it, and are now looking for another one, only to find that a decent one is near impossible to find.
3.8's are a dime a dozen. I say find one, toss it in, and keep the car. Keep your old engine, learn about engines, and rebuild it (a simple honing, re-ring, new bearings, new timing chain, an oil pump and a gasket set, and you'd have an essentially new engine), then swap it back into the car.
Either that or learn about engine swaps and swap a 5.0 in. The main thing is that you've got the rarest of fox Cougars - a rust free one. If you do love the car you WILL regret selling it.
mabe you can find someone to do the work on the side for less money. or mabe someone retired. it doesn't hurt to ask around.
I come across retired mechanics all the time that will do work for a little extra money
Again, thanks for all the responses.
Had hope there would be a consensus, but ...
Only you know which route to take.
As you already know, most of us here will keep our cars until totally un-drivable.
so I your looking for an answer, It depends on what you can afford.
Get everything fixed, and you will have a reliable car that you know everything about. --or --buy another and hope you don't have any big problems. You probably saw my car and I don't think Its bad enough to get rid of. so I would say keep it if you can get it fixed.
Almost ANY rust free Ford is worth keeping and Thunder Chicken is 100% correct, a rust free Fox is almost impossible to find. KEEP IT!!
I bought a rebuild long block from the Ford dealer for $1650 and they gave me $450 for the exchange for my 92.
The car runs really strong now. I'll bet I gained 50 hp. The old engine was pretty worn.
One nice road run here is highway 178 from Bakersfied east to highway 14. Fun road especially with a new engine and IRS out back.:D
$1650 from Ford, not bad.
Both Jasper Engine and Marine and Marshall want around $2400 for a long block with (3 Yr, 100K Warranty). Have to do some heavy driving to put 100K in 3 Yrs.
Did find a National company whose rebuilt comes from Arkansas that will provide long block and remove/install for around $2300. Have to do more research to see what their rebuild includes as seems cheap, but comes with (3Yr, 50K warranty)
If you want to rebuild the engine I'd find a reputable local machiene shop and have them do it. A stock rebuild shouldn't cost more than ~$1500 and instalation shouldn't be mroe than ~$1,000 at the most.
As other have said keep it it's rust free:D
Thanks guys -- plan to keep if I can get engine built / install under 3K.
Why prices so high in Tucson, AZ is unknown. Did come across a franchise operation -- American Engine Installations -- for around $2300 (3 yr, 50K warranty), but warranty fine print #@$%^. For someone like myself who does own work warranty appears to rule me out with all their conditions -- such as all receipts for any work done including oil changes.
IF anyone from Tucson or Southern AZ knows of a good shop for engine replace/install would like to know!
v-8 swap! KEEP IT!
I seen to many cheap rebuilds by part store deals.
Thats why there cheap.
I said he could do it for $1500. I didn't say it would be using the best quality parts :hick:
I'm not sure the V6 is worth it to you, but I certainly wouldn't pay those kind of prices to have one replaced or rebuilt. That's definitely not worth it. Even at reasonable prices you may be better off swapping to some other engine like the V8. The car itself shouldn't give you that much trouble. If you like the car, keep it, finding the right path to rebuild, repair, or engine swap won't be that hard and shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. 1500+ dollars will buy a heck of a lot of good running engines. It sounds to me like you're worrying about fixing things that aren't broken. The suspension is super tough on these cars in my opinion, if the struts and shocks feel fine to you then the most you'd have to do is ball joints and bushings, and I'd only do those when they posed a significant noise problem or became noticeably loose as to not be safe anymore. Honestly I don't see the big deal here, sounds like you definitely need to do headgaskets and while you're at it may consider a rebuild. That's the only needed repair I see in your description. Fix that and keep driving the wheels off. Also, realize that's rather low mileage for a car that old, I'd say it's doing pretty well if you're only just now seeing a head gasket problem.
Also, for what it's worth, Northern Auto Parts has even a master rebuild kit for only 380 bucks which includes a cam kit, bearings, even pistons, everything.
http://northernautoparts.com/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductId=835
Find the right place to do the work and you could get it all done pretty darn cheap I think, you just have to find out who's reasonable.
It doesn't sound like you're into hopping things up but now would also be the time to do that, such as a performance cam, intake, etc.
jlewis05 and rest
Appreciate the feedback. jlewis05 you must have access to a lot more equipment then myself. I don't have a magnaflux, dyno, or even a milling machine at hand. Did look at a shop today that I was very impressed with. Does a lot of high performance and also marine rebuilds. Shop was clean as a button. Putting together a quote so will see.