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General => Lounge => Topic started by: stuntmannick on January 10, 2008, 10:28:05 AM

Title: What if...
Post by: stuntmannick on January 10, 2008, 10:28:05 AM
the things this guy said were true?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&q=energy+non+crisis&total=67&start=0&num=50&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&q=energy+non+crisis&total=67&start=0&num=50&so=0&type=search&plindex=0")

Thoughts?
Title: What if...
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on January 10, 2008, 10:51:50 AM
I think were headed towards communism
Title: What if...
Post by: amooset on January 10, 2008, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87;196893
I think were headed towards communism


There's nothing wrong with communism in my book.  The only "communist" countries that we have seen have been dictatorships.  Communism is great on paper, but people are too greedy and lazy to make it work as it should.

As for the video, I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.  It doesn't dispute the fact that burning fuel is still bad for the air, so we should push for renewable energy that is cleaner.  Have you seen photos from downtown Bejing?  Without any major clean air policies, China has the worst air quality in the world and I don't want us to end up like them.  Scandal or not, we do need to get away from crude oil.
Title: What if...
Post by: P71 on January 10, 2008, 12:00:16 PM
Ethanol! 105 Octane, and makes the tree-huggers happy. I call that a win-win!
Title: What if...
Post by: ZondaC12 on January 10, 2008, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;196904
Ethanol! 105 Octane, and makes the tree-huggers happy. I call that a win-win!

QFMFT. I gotta drive something that BURNS fuel in multiple (read: eight) cylinders until I'm old enough that they pull my license :hick:  I've been a huge fan of biofuels ever since I heard of em.
Title: What if...
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on January 10, 2008, 12:46:55 PM
There are a few problems with ethanol. Its high alcohol content will degrade plastics and rubber faster than normal gasoline. Secondly not all that many vehicles as of now are Ethanol receptive, my father had to replace his whole fuel delivery system after using ethanol in his 07 Focus (his stupid fault for not checking if it was compatible).

Here is the wiki on Ethanol if you wish to read up on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
Title: What if...
Post by: P71 on January 10, 2008, 01:14:21 PM
I know all about Ethanol/E85 (done a couple of college papers on it).

Bottom line is, it's MUCH easier to convert your fuel system to tolerate it and get renewable 105 Octane gas for cheap (my local E85 station is at $1.97/gal) then to drill for more oil or setup a Hydrogen network.

Corn FTMFW.
Title: What if...
Post by: 20th anny 5.o on January 10, 2008, 01:32:15 PM
The problem there in lies that big oil controls our government and will never relinquish its grip it has on the USA. Believe me i wish i could run e85 in both my cougars because i would, E85 prices around here are about the same.
Title: What if...
Post by: xjeffs on January 10, 2008, 02:34:37 PM
E85 affects food prices since it cuts into the corn supply.  Demand goes up and so does price.  It is subsidized, you get worse gas mileage and better power.
Title: What if...
Post by: CougarSE on January 10, 2008, 02:39:48 PM
E85 costs about 10c less a gallon here than regular fuel.  It has its draw backs of course but it is becoming a good alternative. 

Problem is I don't think any puppiesanese manufactures offer a flex fuel vehicle and the government is afraid to make them.
Title: What if...
Post by: V8Demon on January 10, 2008, 02:44:45 PM
To gain the better power you will almost always need larger injectors.
Title: What if...
Post by: Cougar5.0 on January 10, 2008, 03:35:09 PM
Well, you need to size the injectors to the needs of the engine. You start by multiplying by about 1.3.
Title: What if...
Post by: LittleAngel1198 on January 10, 2008, 04:15:51 PM
I have no doubt that the government is telling us lies about the oil supplies available. I truly believe they get kick backs for dealing with Saudi Arabia.
There is no reason for our oil, gas, heating prices to be as high as they are. this country could be entirely self efficient if the government would just let it happen.
Title: What if...
Post by: xjeffs on January 10, 2008, 04:28:37 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;196953
E85 costs about 10c less a gallon here than regular fuel.  It has its draw backs of course but it is becoming a good alternative. 

Problem is I don't think any puppiesanese manufactures offer a flex fuel vehicle and the government is afraid to make them.


It costs less because it is subsidized.  So it is costing you in taxes.  I don't think it could stand on its own and it makes the price of our food go up.
Title: What if...
Post by: xjeffs on January 10, 2008, 04:33:12 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;196954
To gain the better power you will almost always need larger injectors.


That's not true.  If the BTU content is greater you get more energy out of the same volume of gas.
Title: What if...
Post by: Cougar5.0 on January 11, 2008, 11:22:40 PM
Yeah, the real reason for bigger injectors is an air/fuel ratio of about 9.7:1 for E85 versus 14.7:1 for gasoline.
Title: What if...
Post by: V8Demon on January 11, 2008, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;197274
Yeah, the real reason for bigger injectors is an air/fuel ratio of about 9.7:1 for E85 versus 14.7:1 for gasoline.


And if you didn't add the bigger injectors what would your A/F ratio be then?  It'd be a problem....Hence the reason you need them for more power.  Semantics, I know. ;)


Quote from: xjeffs
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8Demon 
To gain the better power you will almost always need larger injectors.

That's not true. If the BTU content is greater you get more energy out of the same volume of gas.


That's fine and dandy, but E85 has LESS BTU's per gallon than gasoline.
http://zfacts.com/p/436.html
http://www.domesticfuel.com/?p=3321
http://www.michigan.gov/dmb/0,1607,7-150-9141_13133_41641-146988--,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-02-01-ethanol_x.htm

To hell with it!  I say we all run moonshine...
Title: What if...
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2008, 04:22:15 AM
I have no trouble trusting this guy.

Its scary as hell.
Title: What if...
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2008, 03:00:41 PM
forget it, a study by the US Geological Survey shows us is would only last 30 years at a fraction of the oil we use now...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.htm
Title: What if...
Post by: Clayton on January 12, 2008, 03:47:02 PM
shiznit, while were on the subject of E85.

I used my $450 '92 cavalier 2.2 5speed to guniea pig E85 on.

E85 INFACT made my car run better and more efficiently than premium did. I felt a gain in power over dinofuel. I miss that car now it got easily 25-27 mpg IN THE CITY light to light. 12 gallon tank. took me 2 and a half weeks to burn 3/4

thats where I stand on that. RIP alier.
Title: What if...
Post by: 5.0 tbird on January 12, 2008, 06:09:43 PM
Brazil is running their cars on Sugar ethanol at ~99 cents a gallon and Brazil is not a small country. Everyone down there drives flex-fuel cars, that's not a big concession figuring how cheap their ethanol is.

The US government claims that we can't do it, but I think that's BS. If they really wanted to and didn't have oil corporations breathing down their necks, we'd all be driving flex fuel cars and paying .99 a gallon too. That's just my :2c: :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
Title: What if...
Post by: SSX on January 12, 2008, 06:37:50 PM
The thing is that it is much more efficient to make ethanol out of sugar than it is to make it out of corn. While corn ethanol holds slightly more energy than it takes to produce (making it efficient) this efficiency must improve before corn ethanol (or a locally produced alternative) can survive without the need for a subsidy.
Title: What if...
Post by: softtouch on January 12, 2008, 11:45:48 PM
If all the farm land in the country were used to grow corn, you still could not make enough ethenol to replace oil.
Of course we would all starve to death if we tried it.
Title: What if...
Post by: Quietleaf on January 13, 2008, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: amooset;196902
There's nothing wrong with communism in my book.  The only "communist" countries that we have seen have been dictatorships.  Communism is great on paper, but people are too greedy and lazy to make it work as it should.

As for the video, I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.  It doesn't dispute the fact that burning fuel is still bad for the air, so we should push for renewable energy that is cleaner.  Have you seen photos from downtown Bejing?  Without any major clean air policies, China has the worst air quality in the world and I don't want us to end up like them.  Scandal or not, we do need to get away from crude oil.

Sorry, but I didn't study hard, earn two master's degrees, jump jobs when opportunity knocked, save my money, invest wisely, and otherwise climb the ladder so my disposable wages can go to someone who didn't put in the work. Someone who tries to prevent me from enjoying the fruits of my labors is in for a serious fight. :mad: :beatyoass:
Title: What if...
Post by: jcassity on January 13, 2008, 12:18:30 AM
Quote from: softtouch;197429
If all the farm land in the country were used to grow corn, you still could not make enough ethenol to replace oil.
Of course we would all starve to death if we tried it.


GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

So since he already said it,, ill add.

Go to town and pick up your "house for sale" free paper.  Down here in WV, TONS of farms are for sale.  People are not farmers anymore.  They are a dieing breed and they are not getting replaced.  WHY? because all the younguns up and coming dont know what its like to break a good 9 hour day sweat.  Yep,, farming sounds like work.  All of you out there who can flip the palm of thier hand up and see pretty skin are guilty.  Our children are fat, parents are fat,, people are laying waste to the pride those retired have given us and it  me off.  Farming and providing food should have never been outsourced but even our food is coming from over seas.

I really dont think our country has enough land mass to ""Guarantee"" a sure crop each year to met the consumer demands that oil provides.  I wish weather did not effect crops but it does.  There is one other form of propulsion that no one ever talks about and its prinl was proven back in 1904 with no fuel.  Too bad we decided to go with piston power instead.

Sometime in the next few months ill be bolting something to an old CVT transmission and see how much work i can produce out of it based on the same prinl.  The reason why i took an old Hull Effect assembly apart asking questions on here plays an important role in this system.
Title: What if...
Post by: stuntmannick on January 13, 2008, 05:45:27 PM
Biofuels from soybeans/corn is a joke.  Hell, a brand new biodiesel plant in my hometown had to shut down due to a record high closing in soybeans this season (with high yields).  When you start using these crops for fuel, the price per bushel skyrockets.  Have you noticed prices at the grocery store over the past few years?

Biodiesel is a step in the right direction, but not from soybeans.  Theoretically you can get 5000 times the biodiesel from an acre of algae than soybeans.  It's relatively new stuff, but quite interesting. 

But what does if matter if we have a 200+ year supply of oil on our turf?
Title: What if...
Post by: LittleAngel1198 on January 14, 2008, 01:33:29 PM
Do any of you realize that we have the technology to make cars run on water? Or what about electric cars?
There is no reason for all of us to have to use gas for cars anymore.

water run cars (http://"http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/watercar/h20car2.htm")
Quote
In a suburb of Toronto, Canada, a small company called Rothman Technologies, Inc., has in fact discovered not one but two viable methods for breaking down ordinary water into hydrogen and oxygen. Neither method involves the need to spend a billion dollars. They are simple answers. The existing engines in our automobiles could work with these systems with very little alteration and no need for an external support infrastructure like the one now provided by gas stations, and which would be required by fuel-cell technology.

How to convert your engine to run on water (http://"http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm")
Title: What if...
Post by: JeremyB on January 14, 2008, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: LittleAngel1198;197705
Do any of you realize that we have the technology to make cars run on water? Or what about electric cars?
There is no reason for all of us to have to use gas for cars anymore.
Thanks, I needed a good laugh!
Title: What if...
Post by: V8Demon on January 14, 2008, 05:04:13 PM
So is the Aqua-Cougar running strong then?
Title: What if...
Post by: LittleAngel1198 on January 14, 2008, 07:17:18 PM
It wasn't meant to be funny.
There are serious things that can be done to help this country concerning fuel/ oil. 

Why is it so hard to believe that a car could run using water?
Ever heard of steam engines??? (trains)
Title: What if...
Post by: Cougar5.0 on January 14, 2008, 07:19:47 PM
We're engineers - we know what it takes to run alternate fuels - and it ain't black magic.
Title: What if...
Post by: xjeffs on January 14, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: LittleAngel1198;197783
It wasn't meant to be funny.
There are serious things that can be done to help this country concerning fuel/ oil. 

Why is it so hard to believe that a car could run using water?
Ever heard of steam engines??? (trains)


You have to make the steam with fuel in a boiler.  Efficiency of steam engines is worse than IC engines.

The water engines I think you are referring to burn hydrogen.  This theory sucks because it takes three times the energy to make the H2 than the H2 to would create in a spark ignited engine.

Here's the real test of H2 cars.  If it made sense the private industry would have already embraced and invested in it.
Title: What if...
Post by: xjeffs on January 14, 2008, 10:36:23 PM
Natural gas engines I think are the best bet.  Even though the infrastructure isn't fully developed, the engines run well, have lower emissions.  And you can buy a compressor and hook it into the NG supply at your house and fill up over night.
Title: What if...
Post by: HAVI on January 14, 2008, 10:59:27 PM
Here's a quick google search to what my father was telling me about. I thought it was interesting. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
Title: What if...
Post by: V8Demon on January 15, 2008, 05:22:16 AM
Quote
It wasn't meant to be funny.
There are serious things that can be done to help this country concerning fuel/ oil.
Why is it so hard to believe that a car could run using water?
Ever heard of steam engines??? (trains)


Yes I have.  Steam engine locomotives went the way of the dinosaur due to more powerful fossil fuel and electrical fuel variants.


Quote
You have to make the steam with fuel in a boiler. Efficiency of steam engines is worse than IC engines.
Which is exactly why they were phased out by the auto industry.
Title: What if...
Post by: tbirdsps on January 15, 2008, 09:06:32 AM
Quote from: CougarSE;196953
E85 costs about 10c less a gallon here than regular fuel.  It has its draw backs of course but it is becoming a good alternative. 

Problem is I don't think any puppiesanese manufactures offer a flex fuel vehicle and the government is afraid to make them.



This means you are losing $0.20/gallon because Ethanol has 30% less energy than gasoline.  I'd go for it if it was available here but with gasoline here at $3.29 average then I'd have to see E85 at $2.50 or so for it to make sense economically for a break even cost of fuel.

Right now GM is the largest builder of flex fuel vehicles.  Of course all I have are Fords.
Title: What if...
Post by: xjeffs on January 15, 2008, 09:17:14 AM
Quote from: HAVI;197857
Here's a quick google search to what my father was telling me about. I thought it was interesting. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/

Add 350lbs to your car and that doesn't include the water you add to create the hydrogen.  Then you have to get the tank pressure to 3000 psia to flow enough hydrogen vapor to run a vehicle.  How do you do that?  Add a compressor and separate tank?

Then how often do you have to change your tank full of pellets?  And with a tank full of pellets, there's no room for water, so how many miles would you get out of it?

I respect him for trying but this sounds like he's trying to promote his program.

Oh, BTW H2 injectors are about $50-60 a piece and get stuck closed after about 100 hours of operation.