General => Lounge => Topic started by: Beau on December 05, 2007, 05:59:47 PM
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2007, 05:59:47 PM
Seems another shooting has taken place... what in all the fvck is wrong with people that do this shiznit!? shooting (http://"http://wcco.com/national/omaha.mall.shooting.2.603308.html") more (http://"http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/12/05/mall.shooting/?iref=mpstoryview")
Godspeed to the victims...
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Innes on December 05, 2007, 06:16:07 PM
Sniper in Newark NJ today to don’t think he shot anyone though. Last I heard on the news they got him. He was by a school and shooting at police of a roof top. There must have been soothing in the air today.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: baxo on December 05, 2007, 06:27:52 PM
Oh for christ sake. Facking American constitution should change. This world is facked up
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: SSX on December 05, 2007, 08:10:37 PM
More news on this. I know a lot of people from Omaha and gratefully none of them were there. http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2007, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: baxo;191235
Oh for christ sake. Facking American constitution should change. This world is facked up
Really it should. You really don't need to own ANY type of gun (perhaps some type of hunting rifle might be an exception). If someone can logically explain the reason to own a hand gun or an automatic gun for any reason besides to kill someone I'd like to know what it is. You sure as hell can't hunt with an automatic weapon..............
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Quietleaf on December 05, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;191257
Really it should. You really don't need to own ANY type of gun (perhaps some type of hunting rifle might be an exception). If someone can logically explain the reason to own a hand gun or an automatic gun for any reason besides to kill someone I'd like to know what it is. You sure as hell can't hunt with an automatic weapon..............
Say that to someone who lives in a bad area (e.g. where you get break-ins). Or to someone with a family to care for. If someone breaks into my house, my policy is simple: if they stay downstairs they can have anything they want (well, until the police arrive, I guess), but no intruder makes it to the top of the stairs alive. Is that a euphemism for "I will kill such an intruder"? I suppose it is, so I'll spell it out: I will kill such an intruder. Someone who is willing to do that is either deranged enough to not realize that he is taking his life into his hands or he is prepared for a confrontation. Either way, I consider that to be a very dangerous individual.
We're all shaped by life events, and in my case I've witnessed some really bad people. When you're five and you're an eyewitness to an attempted kidnapping 20 feet away in Manhattan (gunfight between perp and NYPD) it tends to make certain facts about the world and those who inhabit it pretty clear.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2007, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;191257
If someone can logically explain the reason to own a hand gun or an automatic gun for any reason besides to kill someone I'd like to know what it is. You sure as hell can't hunt with an automatic weapon..............
Nor can you own, an automatic that is.
SEMI-auto's are different, and even then, it's illegal to own a clip that holds more than 10 rounds.
Really...do you think that banning all but hunting rifles are gonna solve this kind of problem? Most people that do this do NOT obtain those firearms legally in the first place. I tend to agree that AR-15's, SKS, and those other cheap "pop-pop" guns are almost useless for hunting. There's a reason I use a .303 British, and that's because it puts the deer down fast.
Back to the topic: Either one of 2 things is bound to happen should most firearms be banned: there's gonna be a lot more people stabbed, or else the outlaw firearm movement will go underground even more than it is.
I'm pretty outspoken about this, because most people are unknowledgeable on the subject.
However, I grew up with loaded guns in the house, and I learned to respect them from almost crawling age. We don't need more gun control...we need IDIOT control. Sadly, it's far easier to say that than put it into effect.
And tell me...since most private citizens in Chicago can't own guns...how's YOUR crime rate?????? Not to start a war here...but facts is facts. Banning guns does not make the violent crimes decrease. But that's purely rhetorical, the facts speak for themselves.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2007, 08:55:44 PM
So if criminals don't have guns then citizen's don't need guns. Serriously we would be better off if no one had guns. Really. Look how many people die in the US each year from gun related violence vs. Europe. We really need to take guns away from everyone......
I guess I can see where you're comming from but I've never lived in a bad neighborhood or had anyone near me have a break in......
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2007, 08:58:53 PM
Quote from: Quietleaf;191264
Is that a euphemism for "I will kill such an intruder"? I suppose it is, so I'll spell it out: I will kill such an intruder. Someone who is willing to do that is either deranged enough to not realize that he is taking his life into his hands or he is prepared for a confrontation. Either way, I consider that to be a very dangerous individual.
I agree with that 100%. Somebody breaks into my house, they are taking a chance. I'd also be a hell of a lot less likely to break into a house knowing that there's a good possibility I might get ventilated.
Bad thing is..someone breaks the law by doing a B&E on your house, and you put them out, their family can and probably will sue for manslaughter or wrongful death. Now, is it just me, or is that totally effing nuts!? They're the one that broke the law, why should I be paying the price for their stupidity. ... Oh..I know..let's pass a another law to ban all guns..yeah..makes ME feel safe. NOT.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Quietleaf on December 05, 2007, 09:01:30 PM
So if criminals don't have guns then citizen's don't need guns.
There's the end of your argument right there. There have been something like 240 murders in West Philly this year (I know, I live just outside the city), and a great deal (if not the outright majority) of the perps are underage. You have to be 18 to legally acquire or own a firearm in the state of Pennsylvania. Every under-18 shag partyer who shot someone in the city this year (in addition to all of those who have guns but haven't killed anyone yet) acquired them through extra-legal means (read: the existing laws did exactly SQUAT to stop them).
Black markets have existed for centuries if not millennia and they always will. Guns, drugs, etc. are just examples and they won't go away just because we make yet another law that the fifteen-year-olds will ignore (like the laws they're already ignoring). Just ask Al Capone ;)
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2007, 09:02:45 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;191266
We really need to take guns away from everyone......
You Don't see where I'm coming from here....
If the guns are banned...then they'll either get illegal guns, or just use knives, or some other type of weapon. Go look up violent crime rates in the UK, Australia..and even the big cities of Canada....yes, I'll concede to the lack of guns in those crimes...but THE NUMBER OF VIOLENT CRIMES HAS NOT DECREASED.
Personally, I'd just as soon as this thread be locked already, i didn't intend for it to come to this. I'm sorry. But I still stand on my gun issue.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2007, 09:04:13 PM
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;191265
Nor can you own, an automatic that is.
SEMI-auto's are different, and even then, it's illegal to own a clip that holds more than 10 rounds.
Really...do you think that banning all but hunting rifles are gonna solve this kind of problem? Most people that do this do NOT obtain those firearms legally in the first place. I tend to agree that AR-15's, SKS, and those other cheap "pop-pop" guns are almost useless for hunting. There's a reason I use a .303 British, and that's because it puts the deer down fast.
Back to the topic: Either one of 2 things is bound to happen should most firearms be banned: there's gonna be a lot more people stabbed, or else the outlaw firearm movement will go underground even more than it is.
I'm pretty outspoken about this, because most people are unknowledgeable on the subject.
However, I grew up with loaded guns in the house, and I learned to respect them from almost crawling age. We don't need more gun control...we need IDIOT control. Sadly, it's far easier to say that than put it into effect.
And tell me...since most private citizens in Chicago can't own guns...how's YOUR crime rate?????? Not to start a war here...but facts is facts. Banning guns does not make the violent crimes decrease. But that's purely rhetorical, the facts speak for themselves.
People are going to get murdered with a gun, or knife, or what ever because some people are just messed up. However it's a hell of a lot harder to stab 8 people and not get stopped than to shoot them. You can't do a drive by stabbing either :rolleyes:
BTW I live in the city proper of Chicago. My neighborhood hasn't had a murder in 25 years. The areas that are violent are also the poor areas. Statistically poorer areas=more violent crim. So no matter what you do the poorer areas are going to have violent crime, plane and simple.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: DVP on December 05, 2007, 09:14:35 PM
First off, i am very sorry to hear about this and hope the best for the families
all i have to say about all the "take all the guns away" and " It's not safe for people to have the right to carry" statements is... the bad people are always going to have them so why take away the victims protection. Our guns are registered, they can find us... theirs aren't so what does it help. Hell We need a bigger safe at my house, we ran out of room, i have 4 guns and i'm only 18 between my dad and i we have i believe 12 rifles and 1 pistol of which include an AK. an I no i dont live in the woods.
The only way you can take my guns from me is after i run out of ammo...
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2007, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;191271
BTW I live in the city proper of Chicago. My neighborhood hasn't had a murder in 25 years.
That's why Chicago has the infamous reputation as the murder capital (http://"http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/01/city.murders.ap/") of the United States then?
Another link. (http://"http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/opinion/05urrea.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Organizations/U/University%20of%20Illinois")
Hmmmmm.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2007, 09:29:06 PM
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;191277
That's why Chicago has the infamous reputation as the murder capital (http://"http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/01/city.murders.ap/") of the United States then?
Another link. (http://"http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/opinion/05urrea.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Organizations/U/University%20of%20Illinois")
Hmmmmm.
It depends on where you live in the city;)
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2007, 09:34:10 PM
Oh and someone :locked: this thread. All it's going to lead to is a bunch of pointless bitching about who is right. We don't need to get into a political converstion about gun control. We're supposed to have fun here :hick:
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Innes on December 06, 2007, 07:39:41 AM
A little bit of my 2 cents but on the topic of why do you really need an assault rifle Maybe cause you enjoy owning it shooting it going to the range and shooting paper. It’s the same as a modified supped up car like most on this site sum of are mods are unnecessary to do the speed limit do we really need a car that can go way over 100 mph the answer is no we don’t but we enjoy it. It makes us happy. Where it all went wrong over there is this psycho/sicko should have never had access to this gun.
Yes thunderjet302 your right, though so far it’s been professional it does have potential to get people to hold grudges got my :2c: in though
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: daminc on December 06, 2007, 07:54:57 AM
our crime punishment is too light with everything. some countries, your looking at long jail time or death if you have a gun. There's not many of those left anymore. There's a hot rod law in canada recently, I think Ontario. can't remember the details. mabe someone up north could explain that better
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: DVP on December 06, 2007, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Innes;191315
A little bit of my 2 cents but on the topic of why do you really need an assault rifle Maybe cause you enjoy owning it shooting it going to the range and shooting paper. It’s the same as a modified supped up car like most on this site sum of are mods are unnecessary to do the speed limit do we really need a car that can go way over 100 mph the answer is no we don’t but we enjoy it. It makes us happy.
Where it all went wrong over there is this psycho/sicko should have never had access to this gun.
Now that you have brought it to our level as far as cars go maybe more people will understand.... but probily not.
And about the crazy mug fvckers not getting guns... it all goes back you really can't stop them. legally you can keep them from registering a gun or buying it new but you cant keep guns out of their hands wih all the stolen guns floating around.
/Rant/ Maybe we should set apart a pansy state for everyone that wants to live in this gun free place. then people can hug trees and sing around the campfire and live in a violent free enviroment.... wait didn't the hippies try that? That worked. People are going to rob and kill eachother, its always happened and i don't see it stopping, why make yourself an easier target. ill take my :macgun: and :2gunsfiri over your:beatyoass: anyday /EndRant/
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: DVP on December 06, 2007, 09:37:24 AM
Quote from: Innes;191315
A little bit of my 2 cents but on the topic of why do you really need an assault rifle Maybe cause you enjoy owning it shooting it going to the range and shooting paper. It’s the same as a modified supped up car like most on this site sum of are mods are unnecessary to do the speed limit do we really need a car that can go way over 100 mph the answer is no we don’t but we enjoy it. It makes us happy.
Where it all went wrong over there is this psycho/sicko should have never had access to this gun.
Now that you have brought it to our level as far as cars go maybe more people will understand.... but probily not.
And about the crazy mug fvckers not getting guns... it all goes back you really can't stop them. legally you can keep them from registering a gun or buying it new but you cant keep guns ou o their hands wih all the stolen guns floating around.
/Rant/ Maybe we should set apart a pansy state for everyone that wants to live in this gun free place. then people can hug trees and sing around the campfire and live in a violent free enviroment.... wait didn't the hippies try that? That worked. People are going to rob and kill eachother, its always happened and i don't see it stopping, why make yourself an easier target. ill take my :macgun: and :2gunsfiri over your:beatyoass: anyday /EndRant/
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: stuntmannick on December 06, 2007, 10:24:24 AM
What if everyone had a gun?
P.S. does anyone know why the 2nd amendment was created?
oh yea, i don't see any reason to lock this
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Johnny Cougar on December 06, 2007, 10:37:02 AM
I know exactly why the 2nd amendment grants to the public the right to bear arms. It has nothing to do with self protection against criminals. The Framers of the Constitution wanted the public to be able to create a militia equal to the federal government's army. In this way, the public could, and should, lead an armed revolution against the government of the United States in the event that the government was not acting in the best interests of the people.
People should not fear their government, the government should fear its people.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: DVP on December 06, 2007, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: Johnny Cougar;191344
I know exactly why the 2nd amendment grants to the public the right to bear arms. It has nothing to do with self protection against criminals. The Framers of the Constitution wanted the public to be able to create a militia equal to the federal government's army. In this way, the public could, and should, lead an armed revolution against the government of the United States in the event that the government was not acting in the best interests of the people.
People should not fear their government, the government should fear its people.
Bush would shiznit himself and then try and nuke us...
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: slamedcat on December 06, 2007, 11:38:55 AM
I'm not supporting ron paul but the rest of the video shows what our founding fathers had to say about firearms.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7USOgUb6Hu0
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: amooset on December 06, 2007, 11:39:30 AM
Quote from: stuntmannick;191339
What if everyone had a gun?
P.S. does anyone know why the 2nd amendment was created?
oh yea, i don't see any reason to lock this
Right on! If everyone had a gun, the psychos who do this sort of thing and could be deterred or at least stopped quicker if the guy 50 feet away was packing a 45. Either we all should have them or NONE of us should have them. Since it's easier to make sure everyone has a gun rather than regulate a black market, I'll go with that.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: Jim_Miller on December 06, 2007, 12:02:20 PM
Quote from: Johnny Cougar;191344
The Framers of the Constitution wanted the public to be able to create a militia equal to the federal government's army. In this way, the public could, and should, lead an armed revolution against the government of the United States in the event that the government was not acting in the best interests of the people.
Correct! If you look at the birth of The USA this is exactly what happened, we had to stand up against an oppressive government and fight for our right to be free. Some claim it’s senseless to keep that right as it could never happen again but I disagree. It would be the FIRST reason I would buy a gun and stand up with those against the government if they tried to take that right away. For the most part the Constitution protects us from the government. And it should stay that way. Wacko’s like this, are wacko’s, and they will stay wacko’s. If he couldn’t have gotten a gun then a BOMB is easy enough to make. Shall cars be banned next since he could have driven one through a crowd and got 15-20 people? If we took the gun from the Wacko we would still have a Wacko! I’m not pro gun’s, I don’t own any at this time, and I don’t believe in packing one in case I’m robbed some day. I believe nothing I own is worth any life, even the life a criminal. Other than an innocent’s life. That is where the line would be clearly drawn as Quietleaf put it
Quote
if they stay downstairs they can have anything they want (well, until the police arrive, I guess), but no intruder makes it to the top of the stairs alive.
Where I live now (an apartment) a gun is not necessary, I could yell through the wall to the neighbors to call police and the police station is 3 blocks away. However when my house is complete (200ft from the nearest neighbor, where anything could go on for days and nobody could hear it) I plan on getting a firearm. It would be irresponsible of me deny my wife the protection having her live so far from help. [/COLOR][/FONT] America is a free country, freedom of speech (ß Read I see no need to lock this thread) Freedom of religion, Right to bear arms. And unfortunaly, like any country we have some Wackoss.
Title: Anyone in Omaha? tragedy again
Post by: WyoFordFreeek on December 06, 2007, 08:01:47 PM
Quote from: stuntmannick;191339
P.S. does anyone know why the 2nd amendment was created?
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson