Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: quicksilver on November 30, 2007, 02:21:51 PM
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: quicksilver on November 30, 2007, 02:21:51 PM
what tranny should i get for a 350RWHP motor?
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 30, 2007, 03:46:24 PM
Well, you won't break a C6..however, it's known for sucking up major HP...a C4 will work nicely if you don't need overdrive...but in my opinion, an AOD is the best way to go...it doesn't take much to make'em strong. If you want even more fun, switch to a T-5.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: dominator on November 30, 2007, 04:10:41 PM
Get an AOD out of a supercoupe if you can find one,they where built a bit better (A servo,etc) to handle over 300ftlbs of torque down low from the supercharged 6cyl. They are however hard to find,i have one but it's in my winter driver 91SC LOL.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Sick88Tbird on November 30, 2007, 06:40:42 PM
A common upgrade for the AOD is a C6 input shaft...that will eliminate your lock-up however...hardened input shafts are also available.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: blu84302 on December 01, 2007, 06:29:07 AM
I'm a firm believer in staying the hell away from an AOD. If you want overdrive go with a 5 speed. You'll never regret it.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Innes on December 01, 2007, 07:26:39 AM
A 5 speed is always more fun but keeping it auto is allot easier. My AOD was made from Lentech it can hold up to 700 hp.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: blu84302 on December 01, 2007, 09:50:05 AM
If i had 1000+ for an AOD and converter like a lentech setup I'd be happy. But for a budget build I believe AOD's suck.
If going with a carb stay away from an AOD. Go 5 speed. The TV linkage is a bitch without spending 200 bucks on throttle brackets and cables.
Also a 5 speed isn't hard to do. The tranny crossmember is reusable. All you need is tranny, pedals and clutch cable, blockplate, clutchkit, flywheel, and starter. You may have to chopsaw the driveshaft But i'm not sure on that.
Anyway, I'm still going to say an AOD is unless you buy a GOOD rebuilt one, and a nice converter. Or manual valve body.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 01, 2007, 03:09:16 PM
Quote from: Innes;190573
A 5 speed is always more fun but keeping it auto is allot easier. My AOD was made from Lentech it can hold up to 700 hp.
How is that Lentech AOD? I've been thinking about getting one because all the auto trans shops around me don't know shiznit about performance AOD builds :hick:
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: 5.8fastcat on December 02, 2007, 09:42:43 PM
AOD can hold up to 1500Flywheel HP. Not cheap.
T-5 Stock can only handle about 350-400 torque.
Flip a coin.
AOD with a aftermarket V/Band a harden input shaft can handle450-500 pretty easy.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 03, 2007, 08:33:41 AM
Quote from: blu84302;190591
. But for a budget build I believe AOD's suck.
AOD all the way... Been beating on a 3.8 SC version for 7+ years... Other than a Trans-Go shift kit and hardened shaft, it's stock(never apart)... Yea it's due for a freshening up, but I been saying that for three years...
If you drive the car any distance there's no decision, AOD...
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: blu84302 on December 03, 2007, 10:12:10 AM
AOD From SC + Shift Kit + Tranny Cooler + High Stall Torque converter + Lokar TV cable assy. = A good setup.
A stock aod with stock converter behind any 5.0 = JUNK!
If you put money into it then yes, I like AOD's. Maybe I'm just bitter that the one I put into my project turned out to be a turd. I've given up on AOD's in general. I want a 5 speed next.
On my motor which probably doesn't make more than 250HP I'll go with a 5 speed. Simple, reliable, and fun.
If I ever build a beast then I may consider an all out performance AOD. But never again will I put a stock AOD into a t-bird.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Innes on December 03, 2007, 03:43:46 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;190637
How is that Lentech AOD? I've been thinking about getting one because all the auto trans shops around me don't know shiznit about performance AOD builds :hick:
Very happy w/it funny story is the trany was in my car at one time back in 2000-2001 till the guy pulled it and sold the car to the guy I bought the car from. He became a friend of mine then one day we were talking when we realized it. Back in 2000 when he bought the trany it was the AOD street terminator plus aod think he paid like 3800 w/the converter from them. It’s rated for 700 hp but if you get that exact trany from them today it’s rated for 1000 hp. I like the o/d delete switch. On your stock shifter 1 is 1gear, D is 2nd gear, and O/D is 3rd gear. When you want o/d just switch the switch. Shifts firm and clean all gears but 3 and o/d going back and forth on the highway is a little rough. The stall converter is a 2800 stall really haven’t got a chance to play w/that properly because my rebuilt motor only has 400 miles on it and the car needs back tires.
heres a link to my trany http://www.lentechautomatics.com/plustrans.html and lentech http://www.lentechautomatics.com/aodhome.html
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 03, 2007, 05:37:19 PM
Quote from: Innes;190938
Very happy w/it funny story is the trany was in my car at one time back in 2000-2001 till the guy pulled it and sold the car to the guy I bought the car from. He became a friend of mine then one day we were talking when we realized it. Back in 2000 when he bought the trany it was the AOD street terminator plus aod think he paid like 3800 w/the converter from them. It’s rated for 700 hp but if you get that exact trany from them today it’s rated for 1000 hp. I like the o/d delete switch. On your stock shifter 1 is 1gear, D is 2nd gear, and O/D is 3rd gear. When you want o/d just switch the switch. Shifts firm and clean all gears but 3 and o/d going back and forth on the highway is a little rough. The stall converter is a 2800 stall really haven’t got a chance to play w/that properly because my rebuilt motor only has 400 miles on it and the car needs back tires.
heres a link to my trany http://www.lentechautomatics.com/plustrans.html and lentech http://www.lentechautomatics.com/aodhome.html
Neat :D . Any idea how much they cost now?
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Sick88Tbird on December 04, 2007, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;190958
Neat :D . Any idea how much they cost now?
Still around 3200-4000...build one as tough for 1/4 the price if you feel like doing it yourself...lol.
Title: Got C-6 going AOD
Post by: 1BDBIRD on December 04, 2007, 10:13:17 PM
I have a c-6 behind my 302ho,right now,but am going aod because I have 3.73's. Really need lower rpms cruisin. I liked c-6 with 351c but now want aod because making alot less hp,and I drive it alot when its not snowing,and maybe then I could do more than a 110mph=5500rpm. Wow thats buzzing for 110,aod 130+ I hope. Enough said later!!!!!!!!!!:burnout:
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: screaming306 on December 04, 2007, 11:04:54 PM
I am a C-4 guy all the way, Small Bulletproof design. have 2000 stall and freshly rebuilt for $450.00 at Local Trans shop here in Southern Alabama. I am running 3.55 locking Rear end. ..........I have heard the aod is pretty expensive to handle anything over 350 Horses.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: jcassity on December 05, 2007, 01:24:05 AM
what are the weights of the 4 different tannys we are talking about? c4,c5,c6,t5?
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Innes on December 05, 2007, 01:33:26 AM
Quote from: jcassity;191140
what are the weights of the 4 different tannys we are talking about? c4,c5,c6,t5?
and does anyone know the HP lose threw all the tranys
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Innes on December 05, 2007, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;190958
Neat :D . Any idea how much they cost now?
Bought mine used for 1500 w/stall converter, approx 1000 miles on it just a little age
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: V8Demon on December 05, 2007, 10:38:14 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;190890
AOD all the way... Been beating on a 3.8 SC version for 7+ years... Other than a Trans-Go shift kit and hardened shaft, it's stock(never apart)... Yea it's due for a freshening up, but I been saying that for three years...
If you drive the car any distance there's no decision, AOD...
My AOD has 9+ years 60K+ and then some on stock internals with a TransGo and hardened input shaft.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2007, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;191188
My AOD has 9+ years 60K+ and then some on stock internals with a TransGo and hardened input shaft.
The input shaft is the first thing to go on the AOD when it's in a high power application. Oh I hope mine doesn't go out soon........:hick:
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: 5.8fastcat on December 06, 2007, 10:09:06 PM
THe loss thur a C4 is approx 25%
The AOD loss is approx 30%
But the 40%dropi in RPM is worth it.
Just my 2cents
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: V8Demon on December 07, 2007, 12:20:33 AM
Here's an interesting read on horsepower lost through a driveline: http://www.superstang.com/horsepower.htm
Quote
What's the Loss?
When we began to contemplate flywheel horsepower figures for our different combinations, we bantered about some concepts that can be deceiving. Most enthusiasts have been exposed to the idea that flywheel and rear-wheel horsepower can be equated by factoring in a given percentage for drivetrain loss - the drag that occurs from all the items between the flywheel and the rear tires. You may have seen factors such as 15 percent for stick-shift cars and 25 percent for automatics, applied by dividing rear-wheel horsepower by either 0.85 for stick-shifts or 0.75 for automatics.
Now take a time-out and consider the following. Our original baseline indicated 195 hp at the rear wheels, which when divided by 0.85 equates to 229 flywheel horsepower, and implies that the drivetrain is absorbing some 34 horsepower. On the other hand, our combination of blower and traditional bolt-ons netted nearly 340 hp on the Blood Enterprises dyno, which when divided by 0.85, equates to 400 flywheel horses, and implication that the drivetrain is now absorbing 60 hp.
Nothing has changed between the flywheel and the rear wheels on our '93 LX, so does it make sense to figure the drivetrain is now absorbing nearly twice as much power? Such a concept just doesn't jibe in our little brains, so we asked a couple of people in the biz what they thought. Lee Bender of C&L Performance and Paul Svinicki of Paul's High Performance are both well versed in evaluating Mustangs on the dyno, and they both agreed that extrapolating drivertrain horsepower loss via percentages is flawed. Lee believes that the stick Mustangs experience roughly a 35hp loss through the drivetrain, whether they make 200 hp or 400 hp. He did explain that ultra-high-powered vehicles - typically race cars - can be and exception to this rule, but that's a topic for another time. Interestingly, a 35hp loss for stick-shifted drivetrains is strikingly similar to the difference between Ford's horsepower ratings and the rear-wheel numbers we've observed on dynos across the nation. Hmmm...
I'd always always heard an AOD was in the 20-25% area.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: quicksilver on December 10, 2007, 01:51:07 AM
do ant of you guys have a tranns brake? im thinking about buying a tranny with a tranns brake to give me better launches
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 10, 2007, 08:23:39 AM
Quote from: quicksilver;192007
do ant of you guys have a tranns brake? im thinking about buying a tranny with a tranns brake to give me better launches
That's basically for the race track only... Unless you have slicks(and I don't mean the average Drag Radial), all you're gonna do is burn up a bunch of tires...
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Sick88Tbird on December 10, 2007, 01:02:56 PM
Quote from: quicksilver;192007
do ant of you guys have a tranns brake? im thinking about buying a tranny with a tranns brake to give me better launches
If you're going that route, you'd better think about having a custom driveshaft made, 31-spline axles, c-clip eliminators...and I would hope that you at least have a set of Chucks poly motor mounts. You'll want to buy a set of control arms also. Trans-brake really isn't worth it unless you're racing it regularly...competitively.
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: quicksilver on December 10, 2007, 02:34:18 PM
where is a good place i could buy 31 spline axles and c-clip eliminators?
Title: AOD or C4 or C6
Post by: Sick88Tbird on December 10, 2007, 05:41:25 PM
Jeg's, Summit, many of the vendors listed in MM&FF also carry them...if you have a T/C rear, you may be screwed...I don't think they make c-clip eliminators to work on the 8.8 with disc brakes...if you still have the 7.5...well...throw that in the dumpster and find yourself a nice 8.8 with 10" drums from a fox body mustang...direct bolt in.