Has anyone tried to tie the A/c system into the intake tract to reduce air temp/increase boost? By that i mean cooling the air duct after the FMIC somehow with cold air pumped by the A/C. How much HP does the A/C pull compared to the boost you'd get....any thoughts? Is there a formula for boost compared to ambient air temps? Same with a cool can for the fuel. I am rerouting the battery to the trunk as well as moving the intake to the fenderwell and hiding the wiring, so i got lots-o-room to play. If i figure it out i'll let ya know.
oh yeah....this is on an 88TC. thanx for the help.
Ford did it in a concept vehicle not too long ago. Only problem I can see with doing it on an older car is the fact that the A/C compressor cuts out at WOT...
easily bypassed.
doesnt the AC pull down 15-20hp when the clutch engages?
I know it'll stall a 5-horse 220v electric motor - we had a complete, functional automotive A/C system setup mounted to a sheet of plywood at the course I took to be certified to handle refrigerant, and the system would only run for about 7-8 seconds before it would draw the electric motor down to near dead stop.
As for bypassing the WOT cutout relay - it would be easily done, sure, but would it be wise? The compressor likely couldn't handle high engine speeds for long
Not worth the hassle and you will probly loose more power then you would ever gain
By the way, this may be getting off topic, but a 65-amp 2G alternator will stall a 5-horse Briggs & Stratton when charging a bank of batteries, too. I made a 12-volt generator for a friend who lives off the grid so he could top his batteries up on those rare non-windy days, and the 5-horse engine he gave me to make it with could not spin the alternator when under load. He ended up swapping an 8-horse engine in, which even still labours to spin it (and burns a lot of gas) when the batteries are way down.
my dad is an A/c man so i'll ask his advice on A/C theory. i cant figure directing cold air directly in the intake pipe due to vacuum issues...more i was thinking along the lines of the compressor lines wrapping around the intake tract...cooling the air after the FMIC. Again..does anyone know HP gains based on intake temps?
I've seen examples where stashing a few bags of ice on an intake will return faster 1/4 mile times.
this is what i was thinking of......http://www.instructables.com/id/S1LCVUWF54HJ6ST/
i aint looking for 24/7 fix, just an hour track time or 1/4 mile stuff.
WOW. WOW. and....WOW. I had no idea an automotive A/C compressor was that powerful. A 5 horse 220V motor is nothing to mess with....that is some freakin torque right there. Amazing. Well....I think our engines are able to handle that . Might have a little bit extra left over:hick:
I read something about this on the last-generation Lightning, not sure if it was an aftermarket thing, or stock.
The effect only lasted for about 30 seconds at a time, then it had to "regenerate". I wish I could find a link, but I KNOW I read about it.
240 ac motor at 15 amps is about 3.5kw of energy. Im just guessing the amperage of that motor your talking about.
I think our AC compressors have a plate with rating if im correct.
I think theres a way to reverse math that ac motor info into the DC world but thats pointless.
what we do know is horse power is horse power. 746x5,,,,, there abouts. Now when your car's ac compressor kicks on, not only does it bog out the engine rpm but it also demands current which causes the alternator to draw addtional horsepower as well.
A few issues:
1) Freon apparently doesn't like to be mixed with gasoline then set on fire.
2) With a standard A/C system, the cooling effect would only last a few seconds and take a long time to recharge. Imagine a 2 sec nitrous shot available every half hour.
3) As previously mentioned, the math is brutal
1 HP = 746W = 746 * 1V * 1 Amp
@12V, 1HP = ~62.2 Amps
The most practical system I can imagine would involve frankensteining together an A/C system where the entire underside of the car is covered with condensors.
These guys claim to have solved the issues:
http://www.laminova-online.se/
If you're interested, start saving your Kronas.
A: He's not talking about injecting freon(duh)he's talking about injecting the cooled A/C air wich can get down to almost zero degrees in today's systems.
B: Ford did do it on their concept lightning and claimed a 50hp increase when the button washiznit(almost like a shot of nos)and it onlt took a few minutes to fill the cooling tank again not a half an hour.
Where do you get your info from man?????????
I would think for the amount of work and parts involved you could find a simpler way. That all sounds way to complex for what you are looking to gain. You can make the same gains with other cheaper easier systems. Use Co2 sprayed on the I/c or even a shot of NOS. If you freeze the I/C I'm sure the air coming through it can't be to warm.
sounds like its all more trouble then its worth
Free horsepower at the expense of probably less than 20-30 pounds ain't so bad...I bet in a few years variations of that will be common on higher-end sport(s) cars.
One reason the big mfgrs haven't implemented any kind of super cooling until recently is because of the possiblilty of imperfect sealing in the intercooling system leaking freon into the intake tract. new charging systems are more friendly to the environment if sent through the combustion chamber.
If you will read what I posted, I wasn't addressing what Ford did with the Lightning, I was talking about using the equipment that came standard on our cars.
The only way you're going to get an HP boost with an A/C shot is to bump the boost, using the cooling to offset heating created by new boost. *For our cars* that means some kind of variable boost control, at the minimum, to take advantage of such a system.
I'm sorry if you don't like the info I'm posting, but I stand by what I wrote.
why would one think of injecting freon into the intake!? it turns back to liquid when not compressed anyway. My idea was to chill the line coming from the outlet of the FMIC to the intake with cold air from either the factory a/c or a 12v system like the link i posted. Not necessarily directly into the airstream either but maybe cool the metal pipe down and thus the air inside. Even if it does sound like a waste of time i an willing to try it. I'm sure people said the internal combustion engine was a waste of time to and...well there ya go.
Only if it is 25 below zero.
PS Supercooling refers to cooling a liquid below its freezing point, without becoming a solid.