I have an '86 Cougar XR7 2.3 Turbo. I've been reading and searching for mods, and i'm pretty sure that i want to get a full 3" Stinger exhaust, and a K&N Filter for the VAM.
My question is about a gillis boost valve?? i know that it controls the boost, but how do i install it/use it, and where can i get it. i am also looking at getting a blow off valve but it looks like i will need a special pipe to run from the turbo to the throttle body is that right?? And if so where can i get it, i Looked on Forced4.com but their descriptions didn't help
i'm not looking for junk parts, but budget is key. Thanks for your time and any help would be greatly appreciated
40bob.co sells the gillis and all other 2.3l parts youll need.
Gillis comes with instructions,turn the boost upto 22psi install a k&n and have fun.
NO need for a blow off unless you must have that woosh sound.
Or unless you really enjoy damaging your turbo bearings.
????? The turbo has an internal wastegate why do you need a blowoff, and it wouldn't be the bearing that got damaged by not having one it would be the impeller blades.
I shelled my ihi by running 18psi with no blow off, every time I let off it boosted back into the turbo yanking the empeller forward. It eventualy wore enough to pull the impeller into the compresor housing and made a realy cool noise. Kind of like a cut off wheel on metal. It then dumped copious amounts of oil through the compresor and made my car smoke like a big rig!:D still boosted 15pis after that. Now I have a t-3 and a blow off, and run 20psi:burnout: no problems
The stress on the impeller blades from building full boost and closing the throttle plate (shifting) is what stresses the bearings.
That's the whole point of a bypass or blow-off valve - to vent that sudden surge of pressure.
The wastegate simply limits the total amount of boost the turbo can make. When a certain pressure is met after the turbo, the actuator opens the wastegate flapper and diverts the exhaust away from the turbine.
Sure, when you close the throttle under heavy boost, that actuator will certainly go full-bore into opening the wastegate, but there is no other connection between the two. It is
not the same thing as venting off the sudden surge of pressure between the compressor and the throttle body.
With that being said, I've read that a bypass valve is better for our cars than a blow-off valve. The bypass will allow the purged air to re-enter the intake, thus maintaining the correct air/fuel ratio after the VAM.
lol don't waste your time ...
i've bin down this road meny times with them lol
i've tried to explan how a wastegate works and a carton of cigarettes later it still would'nt sink in.. i even made a bet to have someone disconect the shaft on the wastegate just to see how much boost the turbo would make under a full throttle load.. i had no takers on the bet..
You should also try to work in an Intercooler if your going go above stock boost.
On a .030 over rebuilt 2.3 with a .63 T3 it takes 5500 RPM to hit 5 psi! :hick:
wow thanks guys im gunna look into the gillis thing
i have to get the K&N filter b/c i dont think that tractor air cleaner is good on power lol
a BOV is probobly going to be one of the first mods that i get more for cheap insurance on the turbo as apposed to the power i'll will get
now do i have to run the pressurized air from the BOV back into the intake or can i just let it expell atmospherically??? and What kind of pipe do i need to run one on my car???
if you want to put the air back into the intake, you want a bypass valve, a BPV
I would NOT attempt 22 psi without an intercooler. I think 15 psi would be my max there.
The wastegate has nothing to do with the shockwave of pressurized air that travels back down the intake tract towards the turbo when the throttle is closed while under boost (i.e. shifting). Wastegates are on the turbine (exhaust side) and the BPV/BOV's are on the compressor(intake) side.
If you disconnect the shaft on the wastegate and assuming the WG flapper is not stuck, the turbo will build no boost as it will all be vented. Disconnect the signal hose from the compressor to the WGA, then you will have uncontrolled boost.
BOV/BPV's are used to vent the pressurized air in the intake tract as mentioned above, not to control the boost level. In addition to possibly damaging the turbo, running longer IC pipes w/o one can result in "trailer hitching" at part-throttle/cruise situations as that air has no place to go.
For stock 2.3T systems, or those with "mass air" metering, BPV's usually work the best as they keep the metered air in the system. Cars running a speed density set-up can make better use of the BOV's as there is not "metering" of the incoming air and the fuel mixture/demands are figured by the MAP sensor.
thanks chuckw....now to sound like a noob....
ihave stock '86 set up, is that mass air meter or speed density. I though it waas too old to be MAF.
And wtf does the VAM do, i know where it is but i dont know what it does
thanks for the help guys!
The VAM is a form of mass air. It's a very primitive version of it.
All Ford EFI 2.3T's are VAM mass air.
oh ok thats what i was thinking,
BTW does anyone know if the stinger 3" exhaust has any hangers or brackets or anything with it? all the pics showed was the piping
The '88 Murkur(T3) I had would make 25+++psi when the wastegate actuator diaphragm was bad... Till I could get a new actuator, I just tied the WG slightly open... Was a pig(automatic) till about 4000 RPM then took off... I must say it was a decent performer with the new actuator... Course it didn't weigh nuthin', was like puttin' a 2.3T on a roller skate...
Tom
. what did you do to mount the exhaust???
Ran mine at 18psi(when i had it) with a gillis for quite a while on an automatic and stock wastegate to boot with not a single problem.
Hell right now i'm running almost 15psi with my vortech supercharged 302 when people say that the stock bosch bypass will only handle 10-12psi.
It all depends on how much you beat on your car and the quality of it's parts.
My opinion is on your particular 2.3L in your application it's not necessary or worth it,but if you must you must.
As stated by 306 who is also running around 500hp with a supercharged v8(if i remember correctly)we've tried to explain it and you don't want to listen so to each his own,it's not gonna hurt the car if you install one it's just not necessary.
thanks for the info guys you've been tons of help!!!!
i just tore the front clip off the car and i'm going parts hunting tomorrow for a header panel, fender, bumper and a door... hopefully by spring ill have the car running and i can put some money into it for mods
btw Chuck W: wow i was looking at ur gallery and man that tbird is amazing, i hope my cat is at least half as clean as yours when i get done, i love how you blacked out the headlight buckets, it looks awesome
No one said that it would necessarily hurt anything, below 20 psi you'll probably never have a failure, but it can reduce turbocharger life potentially. A proper BOV/BPV also improves lag time between shifts and in general helps with driveability if done right. There's a reason pretty much all OEM turbo cars come with them. The stock Fords didn't because they had a very small intercooler and piping volume that would not create such a large reservoir of stored up pressure that would have to be released through the compressor wheel BACKWARDS when the throttle is closed. So with the stock IC you get by.
This doesn't change the fact that wastegates and blowoff valves have nothing to do with each other, they do entirely different things effectively.
I also heard about turbo lag. A BOV will let the turbo spinn freely until you get the boost going again,a little more performance for a guy if he needs it or not. I will prob do one on my latest project because i will want the turbo to spin instead of backspin. Thus it will boost up faster between shifts.
Thats exactly why. A BOV/BPV vents when you shift or release the throttle.
a wastegate bleeds off escess exhaust gas when it reaches the certain pressure you set it at. It keeps the turbo from spinning indeffinately until something blows. It does it the whole way up the RPM range, it's what creates the wooshing sound of a turbo... if anyone reads MM&FF they did this amazing right up on how they put a wastegate on a centrifugal supercharger, it allowed them to run the smallest pulley(highest pressure) and then set the wastegate at like 15 PSI so that way the pressure was at almost full boost at like 1/4 throttle
BOV just releases the pressure in the intake tract so that was you doint get a revers pressure when the throttle blades slam closed between shifts, it lest the pressure escape so that way the turbo can spool up a lot faster, takes a lot of stress off of the bearings the two can't be interchanged wastegate is used in the "hot" section of the turbo and is related to the pressure from the exhaust gasses the BOV is in the intake andd is on the "cold" side
am i right????maybe?? lol
i think i have a grasp on the difference between the two
is their anthing that i missed out??? i here to learn!!
Before you spring for a Gillis valve or similar, try disconnecting the lines to the BCS at the turbo, connect those two points with a length of vacuum line.
A bypass valve releases pressure from the intake tract by recycling air into the intake tract. A blow off valve releases air from the intake tract into the atmosphere. "Which do you need?", is usually answered by, "Where is the VAM (or MAF), before or after the turbo?"
"before" = bypass
"after" = blow off.
From Wikipedia
In simple terms, the wastegate sets the baseline amount of boost a mechanical supercharger (in this case, your turbo) produces.
how do i "turn up the boost" i'm thinkng of running like 15 psi is that what the gillis valve does??
btw i checked out 40bob.com and they didn't have any gilis valve stuff listed
Just try the vacuum line, and make sure you've got a good boost gauge.
t3skidoo what do i have to do with the BCS??? and what is it haha
Ahh yes there is something you left out. That would be a Bypass Valve or BPV it works the same as the BOV you have listed but instead of venting the air into the open it diverts it back into the inlet side of the turbo. This is great for motors like the 2.3T that way you don't confuse the computer with missing air. Also if you run the tubing right the air escaping will actually help you build boost quicker. To give you an example on my car running mine as a BOV still better than factory after shift boost response. But running it as a BPV with the hose venting directly into the front of the turbo inlet after a shift I get back into it to find I already have 5PSI working in my favor. That is what I call free power.
The BCS is the black gizmo on the PS firewall near the strut tower. It easy to find, if you follow the vacuum lines from the turbo to the firewall. You actually don't need to know where it is, just disconnect the two lines from the turbo (at the compressor inlet), connect one piece of hose at those two points. The length of hose matters, so experiment. Make sure you have premium fuel in the tank and the knock sensor connected when testing. And have fun.
oh ok so i just connect the two ports and essentially override the BCS? Now a BCS controls how much boost is created right?? and it's not adjustable. So if i override it then what happens to the boost?? Is it going to harm anything, i mean i want to make some power, but i also don't want to blow anything.
a BPV looks like a serious possiblity, forced 4 has a tube with an inle for the BPV, but where do i mount the actuall BPV???
You can build a BPV kit for cheaper than that Forced4 setup. I bought the kit and we pretty much didn't use any of it except for the hoses. lol. I used to have all the links to most of the parts to build it... but Firefox killed all my bookmarks so I can't help you at the moment.
These guys have most of the parts...
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=terms
I would invest in an intercooler setup before upping the boost though...
Oh and the BPV is usually mounted on the intercooler or the piping as conveniently close to the throttle body as possible.
Here's a pic of my old setup... I'll see if I can find a better pic.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/ether947/today018.jpg)
oh nice thanks Ether947 i'm checking the site out now...
The BCS is what limits the boost in the upper gears. Without any other mods, it's likely you wont hit more than 18 psi.
An intercooler is always a good idea but probably isn't necessary for preliminary testing. Remember, premium fuel, make sure the KS is connected. Testing when the weather's cold will add a margin of safety and is also fun.
You can also see my BPV if you scroll down in my sig.
oh ok thanks guys, what length of hose should i use??? does the length depend on how much boost i wil make???
The length of hose depends on how much you need to mount the BPV were ever and run tubbing to and from it. It is really up to you.
oh ok thanks guys!
i was looking at a gilis valve, now am i correct in assuming that it does the same thing as the mod t3skidoo was talking about, except you can control the boost better???
There's one thing I haven't mentioned, you'll get better throttle response using just a hose. The nice thing about the Gillis is that you can easily change the boost level.
I use a Hallman Pro manual boost controller on the wifes Talon, works good and holds the settings. It's also adjustable without using any wrenches.
thanks for the info guys, i'm prob just going to shell out the $48 for the gillis, that way i can atleast control my boost, thanks for the help!!
Gillis is a great bang for the buck deal. With an IHI wastegate actuator, I can control my holset anywhere from about 10 psi to 30+ psi. Took out a headgasket at the 32psi mark. My own fault though. Using stock injectors with high boost can get ugly quick, LOL! My advice if you want to go further than just small mods: GET A WIDEBAND. You at least get some warning before things go bad.
Oh yeah, I run a bov that vents to atmosphere (FMIC with 3" piping) Except for the rich spike on the wideband, it really isn't that noticeable. FYI.