Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: grutinator on November 12, 2007, 07:20:55 PM

Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 12, 2007, 07:20:55 PM
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_64434_-1

can i screw in these studs into a stock-style heas and run these rockers?

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_33048_-1

the new heads havent come in yet, but theyre these right here if that makes a difference

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-190CC-302-351W-ALUMINUM-CYLINDER-HEADS-ASSEMBLED_W0QQitemZ270178277139QQihZ017QQcategoryZ33617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

as of right now, i cant really see how i can utalize the stock hardware with just those rockers.

thanks guys
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 12, 2007, 07:55:17 PM
Stock hardware cannot be used... You'll need stud type rockers vs the bolt down... If those are the heads you bought the listing says they come with studs and maybe guide plates???

You'll need hardened push rods as well...


Tom
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 12, 2007, 08:18:30 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;187289
Stock hardware cannot be used... You'll need stud type rockers vs the bolt down... If those are the heads you bought the listing says they come with studs and maybe guide plates???

You'll need hardened push rods as well...


Tom


arent the rockers i bought stud type? i could be wrong because, very formiliar with the termonology of rockers(ie, rail, nonrail, stud, bolt, shaft, etc) but i would asusme they're stud because they came with lock nuts.

"- Premium 3/8 studs and guide plates"

yes, i forgot about that, thanks for remining me. hopefully when they arrive(either tommorow or wedsnday) they'll bolt up ok.

and hardened pushrods? do i really need them with a stock H.O. cam? i didnt think it'd put enough stress on the stock ones to need hardened ones
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: Drewstang on November 12, 2007, 08:24:20 PM
Quote from: grutinator;187291
arent the rockers i bought stud type? i could be wrong because, very formiliar with the termonology of rockers(ie, rail, nonrail, stud, bolt, shaft, etc) but i would asusme they're stud because they came with lock nuts.

"- Premium 3/8 studs and guide plates"

yes, i forgot about that, thanks for remining me. hopefully when they arrive(either tommorow or wedsnday) they'll bolt up ok.

and hardened pushrods? do i really need them with a stock H.O. cam? i didnt think it'd put enough stress on the stock ones to need hardened ones


Usually, any time you go with stud mounted rockers you should really use guide plates and hardened pushrods. What kind of valve springs are you using?
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: Prototype Services on November 12, 2007, 08:52:35 PM
The hardened pushrods are needed because they will now rub on the new guideplates.  It is possible you will need a different length too.
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 12, 2007, 09:11:40 PM
Quote from: Prototype Services;187299
The hardened pushrods are needed because they will now rub on the new guideplates.  It is possible you will need a different length too.


how will i know how long of pushrods i'll need? i guess i can bolt up the stock ones and see if that length will work and buy that length if it will. but if it doesnt the right length, idk how to measure that out.

Quote from: Drewstang;187293
What kind of valve springs are you using?


the ones that come with the heads.

'- Dual valve springs for use with hydraulic, hydraulic roller, or solid lifter cams up to .600" lift'
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: Drewstang on November 12, 2007, 09:25:34 PM
Get a pushrod length checker to be 100% accurate. Oh, and with those springs, you definately want hardened pushrods.
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 12, 2007, 09:27:59 PM
IF you don't use the hardened push rods, the guide plate will wear a groove in them and fill your engine with metal... I have a $29 set of Ford Racing in mine with double springs, no problem...

If you need a different length documentation with the heads should advise you... The Trick Flow heads require approx a half inch longer PR...
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 12, 2007, 10:11:39 PM
ok, i guess i'm gonna have to invest in a PR length checker and some hardened push rods. thanks a bunch, cus i planned on using stockers, which sounds like a huge mistake. i'll let ya'll know about the rockers. it'll be a while before i get new PR in tho
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 12, 2007, 11:30:39 PM
Uh those heads have 2.02 intake valves which WILL SMACK the pistons (even HO ones with valve reliefs) unless they are notched.
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 13, 2007, 12:56:09 AM
can anybody second that, it was my understanding that it would be ok as long as i used a HO cam and 1.6 or less rockers. i called the manufacturer and they said it would be fine if i didnt go more then stock stang cam...but thier also trying to sell a product.
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: Innes on November 13, 2007, 07:17:43 AM
who makes thse heads?
be careful
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 13, 2007, 04:32:25 PM
The only 2.02 valve heads that will work with out notching pistons are Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads. Any other 2.02 valve head WILL cause interference problems.

If you are usuing the stock pistons in the SO short block you have 2 head options to avoid interference: E7 heads or Twisted Wedge heads. Any other head will cause problems. I couldn't run the GT40Ps I have on my HO now if I had my stock SO pistons. The machiene shop checked and it would hit.

IIRC the biggest valves you can run with stock HO pistons (excluding TW heads) is a 1.94 valve. Anything bigger and you get interference problems.
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 13, 2007, 06:42:19 PM
F***! hopefully they'll come tommorow cus they didnt today and i'll clay check em. no offence, but i pray that you wrong. im really starting to run into headaches with this now. mostly valvetrain
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 14, 2007, 11:37:15 AM
For your sake I hope they clear :D
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: V8Demon on November 14, 2007, 02:32:38 PM
Flat-tops without valve reliefs and 2.02"/1.6" valves = pwned except Twisted Wedge heads.


More info on them here:  http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=565955&page=1

Be wary
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 16, 2007, 08:26:19 PM
well, i bolt up a side and checked clearances...sorta. i think ill need longer puchrods, the stock length ones will work, but i couldnt bolt the rockers down all the way, only because i didnt have a deep enough chrome socket and my deep impacts were too thick couldnt go down into the rocker where the nut is. there was very little lash in the rockers, but still some lash nonetheless. the clay read a minimum of 5/32 (.156). the specs said a minum of .08 was required. so i have a .076 extra. so im gonna try to find pushrods about a 1/2 longer and see what the clay reads then, but so far so good. so whats the length of stock pushrods?
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 17, 2007, 11:00:04 AM
Your clearance might be lower when you get the proper pushrods.....
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 17, 2007, 05:32:32 PM
yea, im affraid of this. im ordering the adjustable pushrod tool. if this does work... its just barely gonna work. but hey, if it does  people have a new option for heads.


cross my fingers and pray to the Lord,
dont let me down, you f***ed up Ford
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 22, 2007, 06:45:12 PM
update- got the pushrods checkers in, i need a 6-9/16 (6.562) inch pushrod. GOOD NEWS, it appears as though these heads are going to work. the clay read 3/32 (.0937) which is still better then the .08 needed to work properly! we wont 100% know for sure untill its all back together and i try to fire it, but things are within spec. anyone know where i can find a 6.562 inch pushrod? i looked at jegs, everything seems to be 6.8 or 6.2, not much in the middle.
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: grutinator on November 23, 2007, 04:50:22 PM
anybody know where i can find 6.56 pushrods? the closest i've found is 6.40,  where it says 'one piece; no' i dont know what that means? if no one knows of any closer to the size i'm looking for, i might try these, but will a non-one piece work properly in our cars?
Title: head-rockers combo problem
Post by: V8Demon on November 23, 2007, 05:00:51 PM
Call up Summit.  They can get the size you need.